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Cooke Anamorphics

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Ryan Patrick O'Hara

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Jon Fauer at Film and Digital Times has posted that he has confirmed sources that an anamorphic prime set is in the works at Cooke.

2013-2014... no cost or speed information available. How cool is that?
 
There is only one camera with a hi-rez 4:3 sensor in the works. And the same company has already announced and showed anamorphic lenses for it...
Cool as it may be it's rather strange....
What is the market for it?
 
OptiTek said:
There is only one camera with a hi-rez 4:3 sensor in the works. And the same company has already announced and showed anamorphic lenses for it...
Cool as it may be it's rather strange....
What is the market for it?
Click to expand...

Well OptiTek, lucky for us lenses are interchangeable and we can have options regarding which lenses to use... which lenses are best for the story we are telling at hand. Lenses have different looks and characteristics, and the films we shoot demand different moods and visual subtext. Just because Arri makes the Alexa doesn't mean you can only use Arri/Zeiss lenses. Options, options, options. Angie just announced new ana-zooms, Hawk announced new focal lengths as well as a 'vintage' line, Cooke just entered the arena, as did the new 'Scorpio' series of lenses.

The anamorphic market has been long dominated by Panavision and has really been neglected for some time with the exception of Hawk. Otherwise, the only anamorphic lenses available are vintage ones, which are great in their own right.

From FDT:
As Danys Bruyere said at the semi-annual Cooke dinner, “There are more than 3,000 Alexas out there, and they all have the same sensor and the same look. It’s the lens that makes the difference, and that’s why there’s so much interest in vintage and anamorphic optics lately.”
Click to expand...

You ask why? I ask why not.
 
Sean Porter said:
Jacek, are you saying there isn't a market for anamorphics? ;-)
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm missing something but Red sensor being 2:1 aspect ends up using only 3+K for ana lenses. That's not much considering generally poor optical performance on anamorphic lenses. Especially the older ones. Sure it's great for little music videos and maybe some other specialty shots but so are DSLRs.
Hawks have been around for a while and haven't made any waves AFAIK
It's a totally different market when you buy an old ana Lomo for few hundred bucks and rent it out to low budget jobs -music videos, etc. If you spend 15-20K per lens and only can use half of the sensor resolution with it the results will be inadequate.
1.3x ana lenses don't create the desired effects and 2x squeeze too much for a 2:1 sensor.
The solution is a hi rez 4:3 or so sensor but there aren't any- only one coming apparently and this one is "spoken for" by the camera manufacturer (ARRI Anamorphics)
It just doesn't make much sense to endure such enormous expense for such limited (proper) application...
But then again- I've seen guys using Cooke S4s on Arri 16SR jobs so common sense may not have much to do with it...
 
OptiTek said:
Maybe I'm missing something but Red sensor being 2:1 aspect ends up using only 3+K for ana lenses. That's not much considering generally poor optical performance on anamorphic lenses. Especially the older ones. Sure it's great for little music videos and maybe some other specialty shots but so are DSLRs.
Hawks have been around for a while and haven't made any waves AFAIK
It's a totally different market when you buy an old ana Lomo for few hundred bucks and rent it out to low budget jobs -music videos, etc. If you spend 15-20K per lens and only can use half of the sensor resolution with it the results will be inadequate.
1.3x ana lenses don't create the desired effects and 2x squeeze too much for a 2:1 sensor.
The solution is a hi rez 4:3 or so sensor but there aren't any- only one coming apparently and this one is "spoken for" by the camera manufacturer (ARRI Anamorphics)
It just doesn't make much sense to endure such enormous expense for such limited (proper) application...
But then again- I've seen guys using Cooke S4s on Arri 16SR jobs so common sense may not have much to do with it...
Click to expand...

I would say maybe your your taste. Alexa is might be the only camera available with a 4:3 sensor. But epic still gives you a bigger 4:3 format sensor area that also house more resolution.
If you spend 20k per lens on anamorphic lenses then I would say that you do not have that much of a lens resolution issue.

But on the positive side you get:

1. a very nice DOF.
2. A look that reminds you of those great films you seen in the past.
3. The possiblity to shoot plates that is almost 2x width of 1:2.35 wich is great for post / "repacking" 3D tracking etc.

We bought into hawks C's and I enjoy every moment with them when the are home but most of the time they are rented out, for big / long format productions and I get requests form SA, LA and all over the place. So all I can say is that it's probably vice of Cooke to make anamophics. In the mean time there are technovision's anamorphic cookes which are very nice.


http://wordpress.syndicate.se/488/
http://wordpress.syndicate.se/test-of-our-new-hawk-anamorphic-lenses/

I find the images on the bottom link to be very well suited for 4k projection...
 
Björn Benckert said:
I would say maybe your your taste. Alexa is might be the only camera available with a 4:3 sensor. But epic still gives you a bigger 4:3 format sensor area that also house more resolution.
If you spend 20k per lens on anamorphic lenses then I would say that you do not have that much of a lens resolution issue.

But on the positive side you get:

1. a very nice DOF.
2. A look that reminds you of those great films you seen in the past.
3. The possiblity to shoot plates that is almost 2x width of 1:2.35 wich is great for post / "repacking" 3D tracking etc.

We bought into hawks C's and I enjoy every moment with them when the are home but most of the time they are rented out, for big / long format productions and I get requests form SA, LA and all over the place. So all I can say is that it's probably vice of Cooke to make anamophics. In the mean time there are technovision's anamorphic cookes which are very nice.


http://wordpress.syndicate.se/488/
http://wordpress.syndicate.se/test-of-our-new-hawk-anamorphic-lenses/

I find the images on the bottom link to be very well suited for 4k projection...
Click to expand...



I am with you, I love Anamorphic glass. I hope we see some from RED if they are still being developed. You have some nice glass there Bjorn, they will do you well.
 
Bjorn how do you figure Epic has a bigger sensor at 4:3?
looks like you need to crop 1/3 of the horizontal resolution from 2:1 (aka 6:3)
Seems to me like approx 20mmx15mm area...and that's at full height- which we don't get...
and what do you mean about the DOF?
Don't get me started on anamorphic 3D- it's a joke.... Have you ever tried to get the distortion to match?
anamorphic was originally created to cram "more" viewing area into the film frame. Cropping digital sensor to do that kind of defeats that purpose...
 
well I think it's safe to say that sensor resolution is only going to increase. with 6k dragon coming out, and other 6k plus cameras out and are coming out I think there will be a good amount of resolution to throw around even with a crop. Alexa 4:3 is still resolving only 2.8k in resolution, and though it's the purest anamorphic look you're gonna get off a digital camera, it's about having the options.

cooke seems to be testing a market right now, competition is good, and I would LOVE to see what cooke has up their sleeves. A big complaint about the zeiss anamorphics right now is that they are actually too technically perfect. They don't have the interesting character and quirks DP's tend to want and like about anamorphics. So maybe cooke is taking a different approach and going fully with their famous look and maybe some crazy flares in the mix :)
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Björn whats the difference between your glass and V-Lites? V-Lites are amazing i like them a lot more lighter than RPPs lol..
Click to expand...

C for compact... cant say they are all that compact though. :) They are supposed to match with the V-Lights im told.


Other things with anamorphic glass that you need to take into account...

1. If you squeze the image in hight by x2 in post you are actually having twice as good of a debayering.
2. Since you do this squeze your image is also half the noise.

So basically you loose some resolution but you also have a superb downscale to half the resolution that interpolates quality x2 into that image.
 
And we all know that interpolation (aka "uprezzing") is superior to real resolution:yesnod:
That's what Red cameras do... Oh wait....:hand:
 
Tom.Wong said:
well I think it's safe to say that sensor resolution is only going to increase. with 6k dragon coming out, and other 6k plus cameras out and are coming out I think there will be a good amount of resolution to throw around even with a crop. Alexa 4:3 is still resolving only 2.8k in resolution, and though it's the purest anamorphic look you're gonna get off a digital camera, it's about having the options.

cooke seems to be testing a market right now, competition is good, and I would LOVE to see what cooke has up their sleeves. A big complaint about the zeiss anamorphics right now is that they are actually too technically perfect. They don't have the interesting character and quirks DP's tend to want and like about anamorphics. So maybe cooke is taking a different approach and going fully with their famous look and maybe some crazy flares in the mix :)
Click to expand...

Sounds like you'd like the vintage hawks! Have you seen those yet?!

I have a feeling the Cookes are going to be like anamorphic S4's. So they won't be 'vintage' per-se, but they will have that great character cooke lenses are known for. I don't expect them to be like vintage anamorphics however. I don't know, but I'm assuming they will be going modern S4 tech on this and not old school
 
I guess we don't need that 4K after all- just 3 and anas should do...:yesnod:
 
OptiTek said:
And we all know that interpolation (aka "uprezzing") is superior to real resolution:yesnod:
That's what Red cameras do... Oh wait....:hand:
Click to expand...

OptiTek said:
I guess we don't need that 4K after all- just 3 and anas should do...:yesnod:
Click to expand...

Someone needs a hug...
 
OptiTek said:
Bjorn how do you figure Epic has a bigger sensor at 4:3?
looks like you need to crop 1/3 of the horizontal resolution from 2:1 (aka 6:3)
Seems to me like approx 20mmx15mm area...and that's at full height- which we don't get...
and what do you mean about the DOF?
Don't get me started on anamorphic 3D- it's a joke.... Have you ever tried to get the distortion to match?
anamorphic was originally created to cram "more" viewing area into the film frame. Cropping digital sensor to do that kind of defeats that purpose...
Click to expand...

The DOF is squeezed for anamorphics and that separates the backgrounds in a nice way. your blurs are actually twice the amount in vertical in the final image.

Yes you crop the horizontal with about a third Still that is more resolution than alexa studio.

We usually let anamorphic material go through lens distortion correction after that the match would be no problem... the problem would be to find two good sets of anamorphics, but I guess both arri and cooke is making sure that will not be a problem. So I think there will be a lot of anamorphic 3D stuff quite soon.

Personally I dont like films in 3D think its just a way for the film industry to protect them selfs from "screeners"
 
1st Jazek is one of the best vintage Anamorphic lens techs in the world....no one is disputing that...I just wanted to say it

I would agree with his point that more cameras with 4:3 sensors are needed for more choices with Anamorphic lenses...this would make the manufacture of anamorphic lenses make more sense.
 
Kip Kubin said:
1st Jazek is one of the best vintage Anamorphic lens techs in the world....no one is disputing that...I just wanted to say it

I would agree with his point that more cameras with 4:3 sensors are needed for more choices with Anamorphic lenses...this would make the manufacture of anamorphic lenses make more sense.
Click to expand...

yeah dude i appreciate jazek's experience and knowlege but this is reduser and everybody will say my Epic is better bigger sexier than alexa..lol its just so funny here i like it a lot :)
 
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