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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Convince me why my EPIC M costs about 5 times as the Scarlet package

Tom Lowe said:
If people essentially start complaining that Red made the Scarlet "too good for too cheap" that is really going to piss me off. Do you want Red to hold back technology?? That's what Canon and Sony have been doing for decades. I want Red to put out the very best camera they can at the very best price possible the very moment it's ready, period, end of story.

If you misjudged your purchase and don't think you will use your Epic's full potential, sell it and get a Scarlet.
Click to expand...

LOL

That is not my point. They are now too similar without the added value of fixed lens and small formfactor for me to want one.
Now I'll just be content with the epics around me...

Not too bad, though! :)

But as I said, that is only me...
 
Josh Beadle said:
Epic vs Scarlet on Price:

Buy both then divide cost by 2 for average price of an "Epic" around $25K.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking :) Great for covering a shoot with two cameras!
My 7D keeps looking at me now with sad eyes. It will still do some work though like taking a few stills of me and my new Epic-X soon :)
 
Jannard said:
Very silly statement. Sorry.

EPIC-M owners paid a premium to actually get an EPIC without waiting in line. Most have made back their investment 10-fold. I actually think those that waited are the ones that were foolish, unless you really didn't have a plan to use a camera at all.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim I think it's sad that there even was a point where you thought people were foolish to buy an Epic. If you knew something was coming that would disappoint late Epic buyers, then why not say something or stop selling Epic M's. I bought an Epic M because it was the right camera for me yesterday. It had some additional features like higher frame rates that I wouldn't always need so those were just a bonus. Today the Scarlet X is the perfect camera for me. I am fortunate that I have had my Epic for a day and have not even turned it on so I ordered a Scarlet tonight and am returning the Epic tomorrow. I bought the Epic feeling a lot of confidence since we had been told with lots of certainty that Scarlet would be 2/3" sensor and fixed lens. That camera did not interest me at all. I am glad it worked out for me but I'm sure there are others in similar position to me that are no longer within their 10 day return window.

I love the innovation with Red. Initially I was very frustrated with the Scarlet announcement. Now I am excited, but I hope we won't expect similar type of releases in the future. Almost makes me wish for the old Red back where we knew way ahead of time what was coming even if it kept changing. I don't say this out of anger, but just in hopes that you'll understand me as one of many new types of customers that you probably haven't sold to before.
 
The answer to this question really comes down to what you plan on using your camera for, and how quickly you want to start shooting.
I have no regrets investing in my Epic M. I've never owned a RED camera before so did not qualify for Stage 2. I needed time with the camera before taking it out in the field on an 18 month project.
It takes time to build the camera -to really figure out the best configuration for your shoot, and it takes time to really get to know the camera.
For me it was an investment in time, hands on everyday experience with the camera before I launch into a full blown production.
Also I shoot wildlife so need the 120fps, I want a 5K camera because not all of what I plan on doing will end up on TV and who knows what the stock market will be looking for down the road. I'm still hoping I get my Canon mount before December... but I have no regrets, and in fact could not have gotten to this point had I not pulled the trigger on an M when I did.
 
I dont rent my equipment, I get hired because of my work not my equipment. That being said, I cant really get myself to sell my Epic. I love it way too much. Most of you have made very valid points. I cant believe I did complain about a camera being too cheap and too good. Only with RED.
I wonder how Canon feels. Their design is so bad, camera is too expensive, and their about 2 years too late. Congrats Jim
 
Okay, we got 2 SCARLET Ti nearly 12k each, we got 2 EPIC M Ti, nearly 40k each, so the SCARLET is almost 1/4 the price...

SO!!

The EPIC shoots 120fps @ 5K PEOPLE!!

We wil have our use for both, and we look forward to get more EPIC, as SCARLET no matter HOW INSANE of a Camera it is, and how INSANE LOW of a PRICE it is, it can't fit all that our work demands!


EPIC M will continue to be sold, this I promise you, a buddy of mine is just ordering one... ;)
 
The Epic - whatever flavour - will hold its value, and I see from myself that the Scarlet announcement hit it right, in the sense that it segments the markets. I am no longer a potential Scarlet buyer, and content with the Epics around. Makes it easier for renters and DPs all over.

The point with Epic is that it goes to 11-
No other current camera does.

G
 
Tom Lowe said:
If people essentially start complaining that Red made the Scarlet "too good for too cheap" that is really going to piss me off. Do you want Red to hold back technology?? That's what Canon and Sony have been doing for decades. I want Red to put out the very best camera they can at the very best price possible the very moment it's ready, period, end of story.

If you misjudged your purchase and don't think you will use your Epic's full potential, sell it and get a Scarlet.
Click to expand...

Well put.
 
Okay, let me throw out another opinion...

I am not a RED owner. I have used the RED ONE and have used EPIC, I have been on REDucation and I have been a TA at REDucation UK. I love the EPIC camera and quite simply, in my opinion, it is the best camera in the world. I am also a potential EPIC-X customer, all be it Stage 4. Do I have the money to buy my stage-4 EPIC now, YES. Could I buy an EPIC-M now, YES - but I wouldn't have enough money for all the other stuff i.e. RED Rocket, Glass, Accessories.

Do I still want the EPIC-X after the Scarlet-X announcement? YES.

There is still a market for the EPIC. Jim knows it and so does everyone else.

The Scarlet is a very good camera looking at the specs. Okay, it does 5K but only up to 12fps, 4K to 25fps - these are still AMAZING SPECS for an AMAZING price.

The question you should ask yourself is, are you going to use the additional functionality of the EPIC (5K 120fps, 2K 300fps, higher REDcode, better electronics, best data management, etc.)?

I want the best camera with the most amount of flexibility for my own projects and for that of my clients.

I had a thought this morning which was this - will the Scarlet-X kill the rental market for EPIC? Well, if your sole intent is to hire the camera and make money from it, then the answer could be yes, depending on your market and how saturated it is with RED cameras. The high end productions will always rent - and I think if your a key player in the likes of LA or New York / London etc, then I don't think you have anything to worry about. Smaller markets could be a different story if everyone around you has a Scarlet and you want to rent out your EPIC. For those times that Scarlet owners want that extra frame rate, etc. then it will be great if you do have an EPIC.

I think the rental market is going to move away more from the "We have an EPIC(M/X), do you want to hire it?" to more of a "this is my skill set and this is what I BRING to your project" so you will be selling your skills more than the fact that you have a EPIC.

Scarlet will make a lot of people happy and will get more people out there using 4K which is a GREAT thing. I know people who are looking at Scarlet-X as a "b" camera or even BTS camera. This is great because it means we get BTS footage at the best resolution etc. I will even get a Scarlet-X to supplement my EPIC-X, once I get it, as a "b" camera. Its going to be able what you bring to the table, not the tech. Tech only helps produce a product, talent is what makes a product.

Do I think anyone that currently owns an EPIC regrets it? No, why should they. If the camera does what you need it to do, then its not the wrong product for you.

If you want to just shoot 24/25fps drama, then Scarlet is the right way for you to go.
If you want higher frame rates, better compression ratio, etc, then EPIC is the right way for you to go.

I have my money waiting for EPIC-X Stage 4 Jim. Please let it be soon.

:))
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Okay, we got 2 SCARLET Ti nearly 12k each, we got 2 EPIC M Ti, nearly 40k each, so the SCARLET is almost 1/4 the price...

SO!!

The EPIC shoots 120fps @ 5K PEOPLE!!

We wil have our use for both, and we look forward to get more EPIC, as SCARLET no matter HOW INSANE of a Camera it is, and how INSANE LOW of a PRICE it is, it can't fit all that our work demands!


EPIC M will continue to be sold, this I promise you, a buddy of mine is just ordering one... ;)
Click to expand...

Ketch,

Can I sit down with your financial advisor????

:))
 
I can't imagine selling my EPIC - it is still the only no-compromises camera on the planet.

And now SCARLET is the best value camera on the planet.

Two great flavors to choose from.

Make pretty pictures.
 
Basically its the same story it was before the Scarlet launch.

If you are planning to buy an EPIC purely as a rental item, and you are in a small market (like I am) where the Scarlet could do most of the work the EPIC currently does, then Scarlet could eat into your returns. However, Features and TV are still going to want that added resolution and/or framerates, so the rental will still be there.

But having said that, a Shooting scarlet package is still going to set you back MINIMUM $15K so we are in the F3 ballpark, and not everyone has one of those so not everyone is going to bring their own Scarlet to play.....

This isnt like trying to Rent a 5D kit only to find the production managers brothers friend has one and they dont want to rent from you.

Really isnt as much of a big deal as I think people are assuming. We have 2 R-Mx, 2 EPICs, with a 3rd on the way, and I still ordered Scarlets, because I think there is a use for them, even in my small, saturated market.
 
Jannard said:
I actually think those that waited are the ones that were foolish, unless you really didn't have a plan to use a camera at all.

Jim
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you are not trying to imply that stage 2 people who waited for EPIC-X are/were fools. Thats a pretty good chunk of original customers. I think you mean people who sat on an epic m decision.

Right?


David
 
@mohamed

Be happy that you own a camera that is fully enabled to capture the highest quality digital images on earth.

No restrictions.

Even the red one MX is far more feature enabled than a Scarlett X.

The only reason to sell your camera is if you let it out the door for less than it is worth. If Scarlett is good enough for all your work then go with that, but buyers remorse means that your initial purchase plan was flawed.

David
 
@mohamed

You have an EPIC. There are plenty of people out there that don't have theirs yet, including all the Stage3/3.5 customers.

Please be happy that you have something, that other don't have yet, or inspire to have...

:))
 
Steve Johnson said:
Ketch,

Can I sit down with your financial advisor????

:))
Click to expand...


That would be me, I'm the only one spending my money... ;)

BTW... When most see the results in 48fps and 60fps (currently I prefer the 48fps look) of 3D EPIC shot material...)

Then you'll know why your EPIC is a Very SOUND Purchase.
 
As some one who can only dream of the EPIC let me say dreams should not have a price ..... im only hoping my skill and the scarlet will earn me up to what some can only whine about.

Ev
 
Mohamed Younis said:
Convince me why my EPIC M costs about 5 times as the Scarlet package .... Sure the Epic can record 120fps on 5k ...
Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY YES, sir .... 5K reframing to 4k Master ... slowmo .... plus HDRx ... and so forth ... :-)

I see the EPIC and SCARLET work perfectly in tandem ....
to create narrative art ... :-)

... the cost to cover multiple cam dialogue (for example) just went down .... while keeping the aesthetic values that the big brother offers ...

I think the difference in price is far less, then the (potential) production value coming from the EPIC

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this ... (!)
 
scarletVsEpic.png


The extra 10/20% may bump up the cost a lot more, but it's the reason Spiderman/The Hobbit/Prometheus/Total Recall plus all the others are shooting on it.
 
Peter Cote said:
Jim I think it's sad that there even was a point where you thought people were foolish to buy an Epic.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's what Jim was saying at all ... he was implying that if you bought later, you missed out on making money / movies during all that waiting period, plus you win time on the learning curve ... time is priceless
Today the Scarlet X is the perfect camera for me. ... I am glad it worked out for me ...
I love the innovation with Red. ... Now I am excited,
Click to expand...
OK, now shoot a feature
but I hope we won't expect similar type of releases in the future.
Click to expand...
Something tells me you are going to be disappointed ... I think things will keep getting better and better!
 
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