Convince me why my EPIC M costs about 5 times as the Scarlet package

[Mohamed Younis]

Sure the Epic can record 120fps on 5k, but does that really justify it? Maybe I'm being ignorant but I really think that the Epic m is way too expensive compared to the Epic and the higher specs dont make up for the price difference. Are we getting free upgrades on our cameras when the dragon sensor is released?
I'm not trying to whine, I'm just wondering what other Epic M/X owners think?
I already ordered my Scarlet and I'm thinking about selling my Epic

 

[Dan Kanes]

Because it has 5x the capability. Really. It does. I'm not making this up.

Also, because if you want the ultimate in capability you are willing to spend 5x the price.

If you are worried about it, I'm not sure why you spent 58.000+ dollars.

For me - I worked my ass off for over a year with the goal of purchasing an Epic (M). It paid off - I make pretty good money with it. The capabilities are amazing.

I'm also getting a scarlet though - not every job wants to pay the premium - but the kinds of jobs that we do with epic - need the epic. We don't shoot fashion stuff at 30fps, do we? I don't.

We want 90 or 96fps for those glamour shots.

Also - please consider - your epic M was machined, and carefully hand assembled. It comes with an EVF ($3600), an LCD $1600, 4x 128gb cards, a case, side handle, two year warranty. All that is worth something - also, you have it now - you didn't have to wait. If you were worried about making back your $58,000 quickly it wasn't the right camera for you.

Personally I have zero regret. Don't take these as harsh words - I'm just sharing my opinon.

I think you are in a unique enough market that you can capitalize on that. I'm guessing half of the world's epics are here in Los Angeles, so I have "competition" - I'm still not worried about it. That's how good this camera is. Cheers, and you could always sell the Epic and buy a Scarlet if you don't need that high-res, high speed stuff.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well, the EPIC isn't really 5X the price, you have to compare just the brains. EPIC-M brain with side SSD module and Ti PL (or Canon) mount is $43K. Scarlet-X brain with side SSD module and Ti PL (or Ti Canon) mount is $11250. So, EPIC-M is 3.8X more expensive. EPIC-M also carries the premium for the machined components and hand-assembly of some internal parts -- this makes it $4500 more than what retail price will be for an EPIC-X camera next year. ...I guess that makes the EPIC-X 3.4X as expensive as the Scarlet-X.

You get a lot more for the money. "Real frame rates cost real money" as Jim has said in the past. There's a lot more going on under the hood of an EPIC in terms of data handling and bits whizzing around.

For those who want to shoot 4K @ 24fps most of the time, Scarlet-X looks like a great deal and it shoot 5K up to 12fps. Think of that as a an APS-H sized sensor [width, anyway] DSLR that can shoot 13.8MP RAW stills at a rate of 12 per second.

I doubt anyone who has bought an EPIC has any regret at this point. The EPIC is amazing.

 

[Peter Cote]

Well I may be the only one, or maybe not but I called my bomb squad rep tonight and returned by Epic (had it less than 10 days). Scarlet will fill most of my needs and I can rent when it doesn't. I could justify the Epic price before Scarlet, but after not as much. I live in LA and had planned on renting my Epic out as much as possible. If I already had my Epic and had gotten a better feel for the renter's market I might have felt more comfortable keeping it, but I felt it was too big of a risk without knowing much of an impact the lower priced Scarlet will have on the Epic rental market. Maybe none but for me it would be a big gamble to keep it. I would love to have 300 FPS but it's a specialized feature and i've gotten along fine without it so far. Glad that you're all happy with your Epic's after tonight though.

Admittedly I was really pissed after Scarlet specs were first announced just days after i got my Epic. Now i'm getting more excited about it. I'll spend the money I saved on glass. Cheers to Red for giving us options.

 

[Jason Comparetto]

Yea I know what you mean. But often times with economics, we find that we need to spend more for that last extra 10% in performance. IN this case, its way more than 10% that Red is giving us, but it comes at a steep price too.

 

[Harcharan Singh]

Admittedly I was really pissed after Scarlet specs were first announced just days after i got my Epic

I am also feeling the same but RED with come up with something very good maybe an Monstro upgrade for M users on priority basis.
Further with Scarlet X it is going to be EOL for our old R1...still love it.
Harcharan

 

[Charlie_Grinnell]

Well, the EPIC isn't really 5X the price, you have to compare just the brains. EPIC-M brain with side SSD module and Ti PL (or Canon) mount is $43K. Scarlet-X brain with side SSD module and Ti PL (or Ti Canon) mount is $11250. So, EPIC-M is 3.8X more expensive. EPIC-M also carries the premium for the machined components and hand-assembly of some internal parts -- this makes it $4500 more than what retail price will be for an EPIC-X camera next year. ...I guess that makes the EPIC-X 3.4X as expensive as the Scarlet-X.

You get a lot more for the money. "Real frame rates cost real money" as Jim has said in the past. There's a lot more going on under the hood of an EPIC in terms of data handling and bits whizzing around.

For those who want to shoot 4K @ 24fps most of the time, Scarlet-X looks like a great deal and it shoot 5K up to 12fps. Think of that as a an APS-H sized sensor [width, anyway] DSLR that can shoot 13.8MP RAW stills at a rate of 12 per second.

I doubt anyone who has bought an EPIC has any regret at this point. The EPIC is amazing.

Agreed.

 

[Michael Millichamp]

I really hope people aren't sad about their Epics being the price they are. :-\

That in itself, is sad.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I wrote about this.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?65781-Picked-up-Epic-M-on-Monday

Basically I'm annoyed that people who can afford an Epic don't have the vision to see what it can do and why its such a superior tool to a Scarlet.

I'm staying on track for an Epic X.

I really want an Epic M because I value the extra warranty ... but I need some glass too and that is the difference. Ti Canon Mount and Zeiss ZE glass (With a couple of zooms to flesh things out ) seems to be where I am headed. Plus I may be able to do partial barter for Epic X with a friend locally.

 

[Harcharan Singh]

I really hope people aren't sad about their Epics being the price they are. :-\

People who purchased M late will feel the pinch....

Harcharan

 

[Jannard]

Very silly statement. Sorry.

EPIC-M owners paid a premium to actually get an EPIC without waiting in line. Most have made back their investment 10-fold. I actually think those that waited are the ones that were foolish, unless you really didn't have a plan to use a camera at all.

Jim

People who purchased M late will feel the pinch....

Harcharan

 

[Zeb B]

Epic vs Scarlet on Price:

Buy both then divide cost by 2 for average price of an "Epic" around $25K. This is the perfect interview package since at 24FPS 7:1 they are identical cameras and use the same Canon lens family. The sensors are identical so will have the same grade/look for easy editing. For remote travel or mission critical projects, the Scarlet is an "insurance" body in the bag. The interchangeable accessories makes this set-up affordable and easy to carry.

Combine the above with a Canon 1 or 5 series camera bodies and you have the go anywhere, shoot anything system. All use the same lenses . . . awesome!

 

[Zeb B]

People who purchased M late will feel the pinch....

Harcharan

That would describe me perfectly - no regrets my friend. RED seems to take care of adopters at any purchase point and you got to get on the bus to make the journey. Looking forward to my upgrade path now . . . like those late R1 buyers did a couple years ago. 645 here I come!

 

[Harcharan Singh]

EPIC-M owners paid a premium to actually get an EPIC without waiting in line. Most have made back their investment 10-fold. I actually think those that waited are the ones that were foolish, unless you really didn't have a plan to use a camera at all.

Hi Jim,

I also said that buyers who purchased EPIC M 'late' will feel the pinch....

Harcharan

 

[Imran Farouk]

I think even if you purchased that M late...the extra FPS and the lack of limitations in comparison to Scarlet was what they wanted, otherwise, Scarlet would've been a choice all along... M shoots 5K...actually shoots it, not just stills. Scarlet is more of a R1 replacement or half of one since the R1 still has a leg or two in that race in terms of FPS and all...
Each has their own skills but EPIC-M/EPIC-X are purchased for the specific reason that you don't want limitations and you were always going to push and use the max out of that camera...

 

[Jannard]

Buyers that bought EPIC-M late... wouldn't have had an EPIC-X for several months. They got one. And most made money. As opposed to not having one and not making money.

Several people told us they paid for their EPIC-M in less than two months.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I also said that buyers who purchased EPIC M 'late' will feel the pinch....

Harcharan

 

[Harcharan Singh]

Buyers that bought EPIC-M late... wouldn't have had an EPIC-X for several months. They got one. And most made money. As opposed to not having one and not making money.

Agreed...I am EPIC M owner ....3 years ago we decided to join RED by buying RED One and I am proud of that decision...and why you guys are giving us the best products in the market at amazing values..

Harcharan

 

[Paul Russell]

Still waiting for my Epic M. I hope that I get it with the DSMC Side handle and Canon Mount before the end of November. I'm going to keep the order because the project that I want to do with it absolutely needs 120fps. After that I'll make good money renting myself out with it.

 

[Tom Lowe]

If people essentially start complaining that Red made the Scarlet "too good for too cheap" that is really going to piss me off. Do you want Red to hold back technology?? That's what Canon and Sony have been doing for decades. I want Red to put out the very best camera they can at the very best price possible the very moment it's ready, period, end of story.

If you misjudged your purchase and don't think you will use your Epic's full potential, sell it and get a Scarlet.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Really, I don't the M's and X's around me anymore than I did yesterday.

They are all lovely specimens.

I am really glad RED at least choce to paint the Scarlet grey and give it another name than Epic, so that customers have a realistic expectation as to what they get.

HDRx and up to 120 FPS at 4k (the 5k isn't that relevant for 16:9 delivery) are two very nice things about the Epic.

I do appreachiate how this move makes the whole manufacturing pipeline more streamlined.
Many models=Expensive.

I will miss for a while the dream of an8x fixed minicam @ 3k for a lot of work, though, and will probably end up not buying a Scarlet after this becuse it is too similar but just "less" than the Epic.

But I guess I am in the minority here, and the rage is all about S35.
I like S35, too - but it's not the only deciding factor.

Anyhow:
Congratulations for finally nailing down a decission!
(And if there's some 2/3" fixed protos acting as doorsteps, I can relieve you of one of them... )

Cheers!


Gunleik