CONFUSED WITH FINALL QUALITY....

[Robino_J]

This shot would look flat on any camera.

 

[Glen Powell]

you wrote that people go to school..... you know i couldn't afford to go to film school and the only way i was studying cinematography etc were such forums and some internet articles .... dude i am not asking a question like bla bla.... i am not expecting to substitute for that bla bla... I JUST DON'T GIVE A PIECE OF CAKE how to name new threads....

I never spent one minute in film school - But I didn't learn from internet forums either. If you can't afford school, then work in the business; start at the bottom and watch / learn from what others are doing. Ask questions, and then shoot you own stuff on your down-time using the knowledge that you pick up from people who have years of experience. I've been doing this 25+ years - and I still volunteer on projects so I can work with new people & with / for people who have talent that I admire. You never know everything and can always learn something new.

(I've also watched a lot of young guys walk on set for the first time who think they know everything and start telling master craftsmen how they think the job should be done… those guys don't last long.

 

[Ershov Kirill]

I never spent one minute in film school - But I didn't learn from internet forums either. If you can't afford school, then work in the business; start at the bottom and watch / learn from what others are doing. Ask questions, and then shoot you own stuff on your down-time using the knowledge that you pick up from people who have years of experience. I've been doing this 25+ years - and I still volunteer on projects so I can work with new people & with / for people who have talent that I admire. You never know everything and can always learn something new.

(I've also watched a lot of young guys walk on set for the first time who think they know everything and start telling master craftsmen how they think the job should be done… those guys don't last long.

i think you are from different planet.... u r discussing here things which i dont want to know and actually i absolutely agree with you bu i cant understand why are u telling them to me!?!?

 

[Aleksei Gorodenkov]

Kirill, I don't understand, what is your question?

 

[Glen Powell]

i think you are from different planet.... u r discussing here things which i dont want to know and actually i absolutely agree with you bu i cant understand why are u telling them to me!?!?

Sorry I misunderstood - I thought you were trying to use these forums to learn and become a better filmmaker. You mentioned that you couldn't afford school, so I was trying to give you an alternate that would help you grow and learn.

My bad.

I would have to agree with these guys:

Actually Scott you are wrong.


Kiril really needs to be told that cinematography is a skill, that needs learning, studying the craft, lots of practice and requires talent, yes talent. Technical knowledge does not substitute for talent.


This is not the first time he is posting crying about the quality of the camera.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?90098-BIG-PROBLEMS-WITH-PICTURE-QUALITY


We all chipped in, including me, trying to teach him a thing or two about color corection.
At some point he needs to be told that buying an expansive camera does not make you a good cinematographer.
The same way buying a typewriter does not make you a novelist, even if you get really fast at tying.




Look Kirill, the lens you pick, the f-stop you set, the shutter angle you choose, the way you frame the shot, the way you position your subject in relation to sun light at a given time in the day. All of this plays a role of telling a story with your image and is also known as cinematography.


I am not even getting into the choice of subject, what color wardrobe they are wearing and the fact that they have to have talent as well. Thats why they are referred as talent on set.


As hard as this is to tell you in a way that is constructive and not offensive. Its you Kirill not your camera.
There is experienced cinematographers that have shot feature films on way cheeper cameras than the one you own, and they all will look better than your shot.


My suggestion is spend some money on books about cinematography and photography. If you can find someone locale who is a good cinematographer, offer them to be there assistant, hopping they will let you assist and you can learn something from them.


People go to school for years studying cinematography and film history, don't expect to substitute for that by just asking question like CONFUSED WITH FINAL QUALITY, and BIG PROBLEMS WITH PICTURE QUALITY.


///

Thanks. I had read his other thread and applaud the efforts to help him out.

Learn your craft and develop your skill. That is what I wrote so the way I see it, we are in agreement for the most part. I was doing it in a nicer way though, I think.

You have to posess basic skills before talent (or lack of it) can become evident in most cases. There are those highly talented folks who seem to posses basic skills coming out of the gate, but most of us have to learn them.

Mr. Kiril may have talent that he is unable to show us because he is lacking basic technical proficiency and I haven't seen enough work to know anything about how talented he is. All I saw were some frames and short excerpts from music videos. To suggest to someone who hasn't even started his journey that he lacks the innate abilities to do anything right at all is hard and callous. An artist needs to be sensitive, and those who are sensitive or are trying to develop sensitivity need to be supported and nourished, not whacked with a stick. These are my opinions.

Mr. Kiril, If you expect to be able to do all of things Cinematographers do without even doing the basic work, many people are going to be insulted and you may be viewed as disrespectful. They may be inclined to return the favor. I think this is why you are being met with some hostility. Try not to take it personally. If you can accept it as a hard lesson learned, it may motivate you. Now get to work. ;-)

It's not the camera - It's your lack of experience and knowledge of the craft. If you want to learn, many will help you; if you want others to do the work for you while you take the credit… maybe not so much.

 

[Scott Crawley]

i think you are from different planet.... u r discussing here things which i dont want to know and actually i absolutely agree with you bu i cant understand why are u telling them to me!?!?

I think he is showing you that there are other places, other ways to learn the skills you seek. He is offering you good advice... The best advice, really.

 

[Ershov Kirill]

I think he is showing you that there are other places, other ways to learn the skills you seek. He is offering you good advice... The best advice, really.

u know i cant understand why everybody are discussing this situation from other side!? i am not so stupid: i understand that people have to study, that people work 25 years and even study, that expensive camera is not enough, it depends on talent etc.

my question was that maybe i am doing something wrong? maybe i forgot to do something....

one person here wrote me private message:

Some people are very helpful others can just be a waste of time.

I have been reading and following the post on what people are telling you and some are giving you great advice others are just being a pain.

I have over 400 Music videos in experience and I hope this can be of some help to you.

Apature is important BUT with your zoom lens you can only go to a 2.8 or maybe only up to a 4.0f stop
that is not great.
Find yourself a prime lens or something faster than a 2.8 preferably.
Next
Set your lens as like a 2.0f stop if you can. You will possibly need ND filters in order to compensate for the brightness.
And set your focus for the performers eyes.

Another few things you can experiment with to help achive a nice filmic look is.
Play with the Color and Gamma settings in RECCINEX
Remove some Saturation make it from 1.0 to about 0.75 or 0.85 it will give you a slight film touch.
Too much color can give a TV feel.
Trust me just try these few things.
Apply a nice contrast S Curve blow some of the highlights out from time to time and you will be well on your way to a film feel.

Ok so here you have some home work to do.

How good do you want to be at this?
Its up to you.
But if you spent the money on the Scarlet. Then read about this.

http://photo.net/learn/basic-photo-t...tterspeed-iso/

And this

http://cameras.about.com/od/advanced...-apterture.htm

Once you understand that
if you are even more serious watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmnnJQ3X_k

Then you will understand why you want a faster lens.

Best of luck

Ignore the BS on REDUSER just learn this stuff and shot away.

best of luck

THIS GUY IS NOT THE ONLY ONE.... that is a really good answer, help for me, i am glad to have a relationship with such people here! but everything in this thread about years of trainings, young guys, talents, bla bla bla..... u know to much words and no help.

 

[Andrey B]

Hello Kirill! Your main mistakes are:
Your singer is dark when background is bright. Attention from the singer drops to back.
Your image is flat. It have not any accents. I don't know where too look. Did you know how to draw attention to part of the picture?
Your background is infocus. Person is not. Its a real problem.
Your shutter speed is low (high?). I mean that motion is blurry. Looks like a video, not film. I want to see some jerky motion for this style of music.
You can shoot with smaller angle of view. That way can give you next: singer in focus and background not. Than it can looks more cinematically and adds third dimention to the shot. You can make your image "layered". Devide it by Z-axis from camera for 2 or 3 planes - Backround, Foreground and Middle. This adds an emulation of 3rd dimention.
If you live in Russia than try to get the book called "Editing" from writer Sokolov. "Монтаж". Автор - Соколов.
This book can give you the initial ideas how you can compose the image and edit it after. Thats like a Bibble book for starters. Did you know that you can use abot 30 ways to add a 3rd dimention feeling to your picture? Damn its a lot! By brightness, by lighting, by color, by focus, by motion, by particles.... etc... etc...

Good picture is a result of hard work. PLAN to shoot. You need to work harder BEFORE you shoot. Knowledge is the Power!

Good luck!

 

[Ershov Kirill]

Hello Kirill! Your main mistakes are:
Your singer is dark when background is bright. Attention from the singer drops to back.
Your image is flat. It have not any accents. I don't know where too look. Did you know how to draw attention to part of the picture?
Your background is infocus. Person is not. Its a real problem.
Your shutter speed is low (high?). I mean that motion is blurry. Looks like a video, not film. I want to see some jerky motion for this style of music.
You can shoot with smaller angle of view. That way can give you next: singer in focus and background not. Than it can looks more cinematically and adds third dimention to the shot. You can make your image "layered". Devide it by Z-axis from camera for 2 or 3 planes - Backround, Foreground and Middle. This adds an emulation of 3rd dimention.
If you live in Russia than try to get the book called "Editing" from writer Sokolov. "Монтаж". Автор - Соколов.
This book can give you the initial ideas how you can compose the image and edit it after. Thats like a Bibble book for starters. Did you know that you can use abot 30 ways to add a 3rd dimention feeling to your picture? Damn its a lot! By brightness, by lighting, by color, by focus, by motion, by particles.... etc... etc...

Good picture is a result of hard work. PLAN to shoot. You need to work harder BEFORE you shoot. Knowledge is the Power!

Good luck!

Спасибо) обязательно все гляну) а то тут они не все понимают что мне нужно....

 

[Scott Crawley]

u know i cant understand why everybody are discussing this situation from other side!? i am not so stupid: i understand that people have to study, that people work 25 years and even study, that expensive camera is not enough, it depends on talent etc.

my question was that maybe i am doing something wrong? maybe i forgot to do something....

one person here wrote me private message:

Some people are very helpful others can just be a waste of time.

I have been reading and following the post on what people are telling you and some are giving you great advice others are just being a pain.

I have over 400 Music videos in experience and I hope this can be of some help to you.

Apature is important BUT with your zoom lens you can only go to a 2.8 or maybe only up to a 4.0f stop
that is not great.
Find yourself a prime lens or something faster than a 2.8 preferably.
Next
Set your lens as like a 2.0f stop if you can. You will possibly need ND filters in order to compensate for the brightness.
And set your focus for the performers eyes.

Another few things you can experiment with to help achive a nice filmic look is.
Play with the Color and Gamma settings in RECCINEX
Remove some Saturation make it from 1.0 to about 0.75 or 0.85 it will give you a slight film touch.
Too much color can give a TV feel.
Trust me just try these few things.
Apply a nice contrast S Curve blow some of the highlights out from time to time and you will be well on your way to a film feel.

Ok so here you have some home work to do.

How good do you want to be at this?
Its up to you.
But if you spent the money on the Scarlet. Then read about this.

http://photo.net/learn/basic-photo-t...tterspeed-iso/

And this

http://cameras.about.com/od/advanced...-apterture.htm

Once you understand that
if you are even more serious watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmnnJQ3X_k

Then you will understand why you want a faster lens.

Best of luck

Ignore the BS on REDUSER just learn this stuff and shot away.

best of luck

THIS GUY IS NOT THE ONLY ONE.... that is a really good answer, help for me, i am glad to have a relationship with such people here! but everything in this thread about years of trainings, young guys, talents, bla bla bla..... u know to much words and no help.

Of course you are not stupid. You are shooting and asking questions in a place where you know there are people with answers. Those are not the actions of a stupid person. One thing that you apparently overlooked, or forgot to do was read a basic text on photography. Some of us are trying to point you in the right direction.

You do not necessarily need faster than f2.8. It is entirely possible to achieve equally shallow DOF as you showed in any of your examples with 2.8 or even smaller apertures if you have the space and a reasonably long focal length. Don't try to get shallow DOF on a wide angle lens.

Good luck.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Did the password change?

Tried small and large caps, no go.

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Kirill, the examples you posted takes skill, not only a camera.
Really, you need to learn the basics from lighting, composition, color and so on.
There is nothing wrong with your camera, there is not much you can do with the camera if you dont learn everything else.
A good dp can make a great picture with a 5d, a bad dp can make a crappy one with an imax camera.

 

[jimhare]

Another thing you should look at is your lens. In my opinion a Canon zoom will not give you the rich, filmic look you are seeking, they will generally be pretty flat unless you are at the 80-200mm range.

If you are using a canon mount I would highly recommend the Zeiss ZE 28m f/2.0 50mm f/2.0 macro, and 85mm f/1.4. They give a rich, beautiful look, especially with flares.

Also, download the free version of DaVinci Resolve from Black Magic and have a play. You can get some fantastic looks, especially when you want to use power windows to highlight or adjust specific areas.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/

If you do that, there are some fantastic LUTs for DaVinci that emulate film stocks. Immediately you will love the result out of the gate and can then fine tune as needed.

http://looklabs.net/index.php?p=looks&id=1

Keep working at it at your own pace, use the fantastic resources on this board and make great images!

Best of luck!