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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Conforming - Resolve back to FCP

Luis Otero

Luis Otero

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Hello,

This may have been discussed before (or even in the literature), but would someone care for sharing the best workflow to get the footage corrected on Resolve back to Final Cut Pro?

There are so many output options available. I will export 10bit DPX Sequences to avoid the QT scaling back to 64-940; it was graded with full range 0-1,023.

Just another piece of information: I have Glue Tools to ease the movement of DPXs to FCP.

Please, advise.
 
If you have Glue Tools, then just use it. GT wraps DPX into QT and DPX appears as a QT in FCP. For this matter with GT DPX appears within OSX as a QT wrapped file, so you can play back DPX files as a QT. In my opinion, this is the best option.
You can also use AJA or BM 10 bit RGB QT codec, which allows to use the full range.
 
Jake,

Thanks for responding. I want to use the DPX sequences since the final destinations are multiple, so I can still have the highest quality available.

But, this brings me to the questions I have, so let me describe the pipeline and the areas in question:

1. I exported the EDL from FCP (very easy)
2. I ingested the footage based on EDL and graded using Resolve (easy)
3. Graded al full range (0-1,023), so I want to preserve that range, so I will export RGB 10bit DPX sequences.

Now, the unknown: what setting on the export page have to be done (name, prefix, suffix, folder per clip, etc), so when we perform the conforming back to FCP, we can re-link the media to the new sequences?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge...!!!
 
Luis Otero said:
Jake,

Thanks for responding. I want to use the DPX sequences since the final destinations are multiple, so I can still have the highest quality available.

But, this brings me to the questions I have, so let me describe the pipeline and the areas in question:

1. I exported the EDL from FCP (very easy)
2. I ingested the footage based on EDL and graded using Resolve (easy)
3. Graded al full range (0-1,023), so I want to preserve that range, so I will export RGB 10bit DPX sequences.

Now, the unknown: what setting on the export page have to be done (name, prefix, suffix, folder per clip, etc), so when we perform the conforming back to FCP, we can re-link the media to the new sequences?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge...!!!
Click to expand...

Do you need individual clips back in FCP? If not just export the entire Master sequence from Resolve and use GT to open it in FCP in a QT wrapper. Are you doing the layback in FCP?
 
Luis Otero said:
Jake,

Thanks for responding. I want to use the DPX sequences since the final destinations are multiple, so I can still have the highest quality available.

But, this brings me to the questions I have, so let me describe the pipeline and the areas in question:

1. I exported the EDL from FCP (very easy)
2. I ingested the footage based on EDL and graded using Resolve (easy)
3. Graded al full range (0-1,023), so I want to preserve that range, so I will export RGB 10bit DPX sequences.

Now, the unknown: what setting on the export page have to be done (name, prefix, suffix, folder per clip, etc), so when we perform the conforming back to FCP, we can re-link the media to the new sequences?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge...!!!
Click to expand...

If you export your project as one file out of Resolve, then there is no need to relink. If you'd like to relink, the you need to export every event in separate folder (folder per clip on the Resolve export page), but as far as keeping the same names, then hopefully someone, who uses Resolve can chime in. I don't really use Resolve...
 
Well, I am just trying to do the appropriate conforming: clip by clip. How to name and organize it so that media re-link can help us (kind of what Clipfinder does for RC-X). So, we can send it to Compressor to assure no rescaling from 0-1,023 to 64-960.

Any idea if this is now available? If not, I have not done the DPX exporting of the Master Sequence. Any special area to be aware of, or any other pointer?

Thanks!!!
 
when you render out, select SOURCE mode, and click up top that says use source suffix, etc. that should have you retain the original file names if you originally conformed NOT using scene detection.

if you are using scene detector to break up the sequence and grade, it will NOT retain the original clip name from the FCP timeline you had.

when you render as source, you might have to have it render to it's own individual folder for every event. It's gonna run into identical file name issues if there are a clips linked to the same source file in the original cut. and they'll end up conflicting if you render to the same folder.

Then when u go back to fcp, you have to relink manually 1 clip at a time to each folder. If it's a very long piece, that's what you have to do.

If anybody knows of a way to export a separate edl based on how you rendered and do a quick import into FCP please chime in, but as far as I know there is no other way. Resolve was designed to be an absolute FINISHING tool. meaning they never really intended it to go back into a NLE. I'm hoping blackmagic comes up with a good solution soon. I had to do this for a hour and 50 minute feature film, and was reconnecting for 10 hours.



export dpx or bm 10 bit rgb to keep full values as Jake mentioned.
 
Luis Otero said:
Well, I am just trying to do the appropriate conforming: clip by clip. How to name and organize it so that media re-link can help us (kind of what Clipfinder does for RC-X). So, we can send it to Compressor to assure no rescaling from 0-1,023 to 64-960.

Any idea if this is now available? If not, I have not done the DPX exporting of the Master Sequence. Any special area to be aware of, or any other pointer?

Thanks!!!
Click to expand...

make sure you have a lot of hard drive space :)

and if you are using glue tools you should be able to see each dpx sequence as a clip like normal, should be like anything else really. just be sure to spot check the clips (as usual) incase there is a corrupt frame or two.
 
Tom,

Thanks a lot!!! I know that the relink would be a pain. This is a feature of almost 2 hours. Well, the assistant editors have their work cut out for them...

BTW, I do not have the BMD as an option of the "Option Type" pull down menu...That is weird, isn't it?
 
very... i'd check on the BM website and see if they have a codec package for you to use.

yes the assistants will have a LOT of work cut out for them, but when you export into individual folders, it will sequence and name the folders according to the event number and version it is on your Resolve timeline.

so the first clip should be 001, second clip is 002, etc. etc. so they should just be able to go right down the timeline and reconnect one at a time, and just ignore the "media doesn't match original blah blah blah" error final cut will give them.

it's gonna be trick if there are transitions included in the timeline though, I'm not sure how that's gonna look. and they will have no handles either, so you'll probably have to prepare for a bit of headache on that playing around. You might to export certain chunks to keep the transitions, or export out individual clips with handles so they can re apply the transition.

thus I suggest staying with BM rgb/quicktime, and only put out dpx when necessary, like VFX work. they can easily re export to DPX later for a DCP or filmout.

It's gonna be a lot of careful file management, it might get unstable on export too if you aren't careful so you gotta keep an eye on it. Having too long of a timeline can cause strange things to happen, or having too many timelines can cause weird things too...
 
I don't have any experience with GT and DPX. But I know from many, many projects that FCP has little malicious pitfalls when it comes to RGB. FCP thinks in YUV and DPX are RGB, go figure.

If you have the possibility to conform elsewhere, do it. I bought Smoke for this reason. If your project is a feature film and not a TVC Resolve maybe the right answer. Why not staying there?

If you break down the project into handy chapters of 10 - 20 minutes you can replace the VFX shots in Resolve, add with alpha carrying clips titles, etc... and keep track of your project. Resolve has been THE finishing tool for many well known feature films. Why not for yours?

Hans

Disclaimer: I haven't work with Resolve yet.
 
Unfortunately the nature of the business as is now, lot of people don't have their sh*t together like on a hollywood feature film. You're really supposed to END and FINISH in Resolve, but a lot of projects always seem to have "more to do", and coloring as a finishing move is a bit out of their realm.

I had a client that did scaling and reframing in the edit, and they were adamant that I don't do it in resolve, and they wanted 4k quicktimes instead so they can do it themselves because they know exactly how it should be...

there are a lot more reasons too, but it's just how it is. I'm hoping Resolve will get a major update soon that can accommodate more difficult workflows soon...
 
Tom.Wong said:
...I had a client that did scaling and reframing in the edit, and they were adamant that I don't do it in resolve, and they wanted 4k quicktimes instead so they can do it themselves because they know exactly how it should be...
Click to expand...

I hope they used FCP for that. FCP is the best software for panscan.

Hans
 
Guys,

All your information has been very helpful. The reason for DPX is that it is needed for one of the deliverables (DCP).

However, I would love to have available, as I do on other softwares, the BM RGB Quicktime as an option within Resolve, but I don't see it. Would it be called differently? I own BM cards, HD Links, etc. So, I can see and use it in FCP, for example. But oddly not in Resolve (except if it is called differently).

Again, thanks a lot...!!!
 
Tom.Wong said:
Resolve was designed to be an absolute FINISHING tool. meaning they never really intended it to go back into a NLE.
Click to expand...

This may not help you, but that is not true at all. Resolve was designed in part to accommodate "traditional" commercial post paths, which have, for years, been based around color grading "select reels" that were then sent back to an online editor and reconformed. That's why it has timeline re-sorting modes that allow sorting by source time code, and it's also why you can do a video playout using either the timeline time code or the source time code and maintain either one on tape.
 
Unexpected outcome...

Unexpected outcome...

I got confirmation fro BMD that actually, the codec within Resolve called "QT RGB Uncompressed 10 bits" is the BMD version.

However, the outcome is so different:

ProRes 422 vs RGB UC 10 Bits


Any word of wisdom on what is going on here?

Thanks,
 
Luis Otero said:
I got confirmation fro BMD that actually, the codec within Resolve called "QT RGB Uncompressed 10 bits" is the BMD version.

However, the outcome is so different:

ProRes 422 vs RGB UC 10 Bits


Any word of wisdom on what is going on here?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

What you are experiencing is a phenomenon to which people refer as "Apple's QuickTime Gamma Hell". ProRes 422 is YUV, the BDM codec is RGB and there are many other other pitfalls such as "Automatic Gamma Correction" and individual unpredictabilities.

ProRes4444, encoded in SpeedGrade or elsewhere in RGB, does not shift gamma in SpeedGrade, Shake and Smoke. In FCP it shifts. So far my observations. All other codecs are useless in my experiences.

Because QT is so bad regarding colour consistencies Smoke has a gamma correction tool in its IO Module that can be adjusted to any gamma values for individual compensation. Go figure.

You can create a LUT for compensation. Sometimes a tedious task.

Hans
 
Hans,

Incredibly, the one that kept the gamma value was the ProRes. The dark one was using the BM RGB Uncompressed, so it does not make any sense.

I was assured by BMD support that the codec within Resolve called "QT RGB Uncompressed 10 bits" is the BMD version, which preserves the scale and the gamma, hence no shifting issue should be experienced.
 
If the BMD codec is truly RGB, this makes total sense. If the BMD codec thumbnail you posted is after FCP, then FCP is simply crushing the levels. It expects YUV mapping and isn't properly processing this codec. ProRes4444 is not an RGB codec, like TIFF or JPEG. It is a YUV codec with 4:4:4 color sampling instead of 4:2:2. So levels allow for black/white excursions instead of mapping 0-1023.

Remember that there is no way you can trust the QuickTime Conversion export of a still image from FCP, because it is going through yet another color space/gamma conversion as QuickTime writes the graphic.

- Oliver
 
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