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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Conform from ProRes to R3D

Christian Foerster

Christian Foerster

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Hi,


I'm going to edit a short shot on Red in the next few weeks and I want to edit using transcoded ProRes material (as I've heard of problems with performance using the proxy QT files).

The only "free" option of being able to conform back to the original R3D files (for grading) is going through the Log & Transfer process as specified in the Red white paper, right?

The only other option I found is Crimson, which is a paid-for app (and this is a non-paid project, otherwise I wouldn't think twice about buying that app, trust me).

I'm asking because I've also heard (from @mikeseymour) that L&T has some issues with Red 16:9 footage, and I'm kind of pissing my pants right now as I will not have time to test the workflow extensively before the actual shoot and I'd really like it all to work (don't we all?)

So... Is there anything I can do to minimize any PITA?


Thanks for your help,
Christian
 
Edit with ProRes, save the MXL, use "run conform with FCP XML" feature in the Clipfinder.
In the conform window, you specify the R3D location and the new XML with conformed R3D clips.
The new XML in FCP will open with R3D clips like magic.
 
I worked on many projects this way.
 
Nope, just an XML.
 
SIMPLIFYING things

SIMPLIFYING things

Christian Foerster said:
So... Is there anything I can do to minimize any PITA?
Click to expand...

Chrisitian,

You have pointed out a common problem with Red projects that are on a sensitive budget or tight schedule: to reconform, or not to reconform.

The truth is, for most forms of distribution (including some digital studio feature films) the need to reconform Red files my not be necessary to feature or broadcast quality.

24 months ago, prior to Red, there was (almost) no way to conform digital motion picture images to 2K or 4K from RAW files. Likewise, it was never a deliverable nor expectation for editors/preditors to devise ways and tools in which to online. Imagine if your client shot on HDCAM SR and then expected you to have the 5500 in order to online. No fair to any party.

So in most situations today, I highly recommend considering to do an ONLINE Edit instead of an OFFLINE and ONLINE edit. In other words, simply transcode your media to 1080p and edit in the ProRes HQ codec. ProRes images are (technically) higher quality than HDCAM natively and will deliver a wonderful, malleable picture from the Red Source.

If you want to simplify things, take it from me: many projects in the professional feature film and television world do not go back to R3Ds when it doesn't add anything. Perhaps in your projects' case, you can achieve everything you want from a good ProRes transcode without the complexity of going back to R3Ds.

For best results, transcode using RedRushes and set the Color Space and Gamma Space to Camera RGB / RedLog. This will give you the most elasticity in finalized images (but will require a temp 3WAY FCP filter during editorial). Use a 1/2 Standard debayer, which will take some time without a RenderFarm, but you'll save time and energy from trying to reconform.

Hope this helps.
michael
 
With the workflow enabled by Color's R3D support and Clipfinder, offline editing with a later conform doesn't have to be more time consuming that just transcoding to ProRes and onlining. It can actually be faster.

Our standard workflow these days is to transcode everything to 720p ProRes (standard quality) via a 1/4 res debayer. These files are barely more than twice the data rate of DV, almost any Intel Mac can sling them around with ease, and they still look pretty good. After we've got picture lock, we use Clipfinder to swap the ProRes files for the H proxies, send to Color, grade, and output. Usually we just output to ProRes (1080p HQ, this time), since, as Michael point out, there's little call for higher quality outside of the theatrical distribution market.

This workflow has a few distinct advantages over simply transcoding all shot footage to 1080p ProRes and onlining:

1) The 720p ProRes files are about 1/3 of the size of 1080p ProRes HQ. This makes it easy to toss footage on an external FW drive and edit anywhere, or give the footage to a client to edit on their iMac or whatever, coming back to you for the final conform.

2) Transcoding at 1/4 quality to 720p ProRes is about three times as fast as transcoding at 1/2 quality to 1080p ProRes, so it's nice not to have to do the latter with every frame of footage you shoot. These 720p transcodes can be near real-time or better with a single 8-core Mac Pro.

3) The full range of data in the raw file is available during grading.

4) If there is an actual need for a 2K DPX or uncompressed HD deliverable, you can use the exact same workflow, and simply change the output format in Color. You can deliver in formats your system can't even play in real-time.
 
I completely agree, with Chris. We do a quarter debayer to 2k ProRes SQ with burn-in. Then all framing and sizing translates completely to 2k Proxies without shifting.

On my 8 core 3.2, I get a quarter debayer transcode in just over a 2:1 time ratio. Half standard is more like 5:1, and Half high is 12:1.

500gig to half high is 2 1/2 days around the clock. And even a Half high ProRes HQ finish is not as good as sending proxies to Color to re-connect to R3D.

STeve
Primary3.tv
 
Michael_PlasterCITY said:
Chrisitian,

For best results, transcode using RedRushes and set the Color Space and Gamma Space to Camera RGB / RedLog. This will give you the most elasticity in finalized images (but will require a temp 3WAY FCP filter during editorial). Use a 1/2 Standard debayer, which will take some time without a RenderFarm, but you'll save time and energy from trying to reconform.

Hope this helps.
michael
Click to expand...

What kind of3Way color filter is needed? Contrast? Color? What do you think about using RedRushes with an RSX file to increase the contrast a bit and then online using Crimson before sending to Scratch for a real DI?
 
We do a TON of long form, corporate type work with long interviews. With clients sitting in the edit suite in post, we need it to look great, have no rendering for just playback and play back through a Kona Lhe to a client monitor:

So...we do what Michael mentioned. We transcode everything using Hans' Clipfinder and it works brilliantly. Until this week, we were doing all of our RSX imaging/coloring in Red Alert and then using Clipfinder. Now, since he's added the image controls, we'll just use Clipfinder rather than Red Alert.

To add to Michael's post, I would say transcode everything to half debayer ProRez with a "one-light" or "close enough" type color correction using Clipfinder. Then you can adjust the rest using FCP's or AVID's color correction tools. IF, you need to go back to the 4k files and tweak RAW, then use Clipfinder and only do the in to out points, which Hans also recently added and manually put it back into your edit. Works for us.

By the way, I have NOT gotten the conform feature to work with Clipfinder. Just last night, I took a single R3D's "H" proxie into FCP. I did 3 quick edits and exported an XML doc. I brought it into Clipfinder and it would not allow me to alter the clips. It also did not show all 3, but just the one master file. Not sure what that's about. Oh, it also needs the "white balance tool." Hans...any chance we'll get that soon? :-)

Thanks.

Kevin
 
Kevin,

The current version of Clipfinder (even the beta) cannot yet conform with in/out points (in FCP).
It is high up on my list, but I cannot say when it will be finished.

As for a white balance tool, I'll have to research how to do this (how do you go from a set of RGB values to a pair of kelvin/tint numbers that correct those RGB values to neutral grey ?). Again, I cannot promise a delivery date.

Cheers,
Hans
 
Here is the answer, straight from the pages of the RED FCP Manual. Make sure you have a tower that can handle this workflow if not you will have trouble. Here it is:

Work Offline Using ProRes; Finish Using RED QuickTime Media

This workflow describes transcoding to ProRes for efficient offline editing, then reconforming your edited sequence to reingested RED QuickTime media for final mastering and color correction using Color.

• Advantage — Editing with ProRes 422 media is less processor-intensive than editing using RED QuickTime files. After you reconform, you can work in Color at higher quality with access to all of the raw image data in the R3D file, as Color can bypass QuickTime and use the RED framework directly.
• Disadvantage — Reconforming is an extra step that requires good organization.

Stage 1 — Ingest Using ProRes, and Perform an Offline Edit
1. If it’s necessary to edit your program at offline quality for efficiency, transcode the
archived RED media to ProRes 422 or ProRes 422 (HQ) using the Log and Transfer
window in Final Cut Pro. (For more information, see “Transcoding to ProRes 422.”)
2. Edit your project in Final Cut Pro as you normally would.

Stage 2 — Reconform Your Project to RED QuickTime Media
1. Once your edit is locked, prepare your edited sequence to be media-managed by moving all video clips that aren’t being superimposed as part of a compositing operation down to track V1. This makes navigation and grade management much easier once you start working in Color, and may eliminate unused clips from the Timeline, reducing the amount of media needing to be reconformed.

2. If you haven’t already, create a “RED Using ProRes” sequence preset in Final Cut Pro. (For more information, see “Creating a RED Using ProRes Sequence Preset in Final Cut Pro.”) You’ll use this preset to media-manage your edited sequence.

3. Right-click the edited sequence in the Browser, and choose Media Manage from the shortcut menu to open the Media Manager. The recommended settings are:
• Media pop-up menu – Create Offline
• Include render files – off
• “Set sequences to” pop-up menu — “RED Using ProRes” (the name you gave the sequence preset you created)
• Include master clips outside selection – off
• Delete unused media from duplicated – off
• Use Handles – off
• Include affiliate clips outside selection – off
• “Base media file names on” pop-up menu – existing file names
• Duplicate selected items and place into a new project – on
• Include nonactive multiclip angles – off

4. Next, click the Browse button in the Media Destination area and choose a location to save the media and the new offline sequence you’re creating, then click OK.

5. When the Media Manager operation finishes, you need to change the ingest options of the Log and Transfer window before you begin to actually ingest media:

5.1. Open the Log and Transfer window, and choose Preferences from the Action pop-up menu (the menu with the gear icon).

5.2. When the Import Preferences sheet appears, choose Native from the
“Transcode to” column corresponding to the RED Plugin.

5.3. Close the Log and Transfer window when you’ve finished.

6. Lastly, right-click the new offline sequence that’s been created, and choose Batch Capture from the shortcut menu. When the Log and Transfer window appears, reingest all necessary footage from your archived RED media directories.

Stage 3 — Grade Your Program Using Color
1. Prepare the sequence for sending to Color. Clips with effects or using media that is incompatible with Color (including clips with speed effects, still images, freeze frames, and multicam clips) should be prerendered as described in the “Moving Projects Between Final Cut Pro and Color” chapter of the Color User Manual. Export each clip that needs to be prerendered as either ProRes 422 (HQ) or Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2, and edit the resulting .mov file into your Timeline to replace the original, unsupported clip.

2. When you’re finished, right-click on your sequence in the Browser, and choose Send To > Color to send the prepared sequence to Color for grading.
Once in Color, you’ll find that you have access to each clip’s camera setting
metadata via the Red tab in the Primary In room. You can use the RED image data as is, or make adjustments as necessary. Please note, clips that have been transcoded to ProRes 422 (HQ) lose the ability to access these camera settings, as they no longer contain the native RED raw image data.

Stage 4 — Render Out of Color

1. When you’re ready to render the color-corrected project, you have two choices:
• Option 1 – Render to DPX for film printing. As with the digital intermediate workflow
described in the Color User Manual, Pan & Scan effects are rendered within Color when you select DPX or Cineon as your Render File Type, and dissolves are rendered by Color when you use the Gather Rendered Media command to assemble the final consecutively numbered image sequence for film output.

• Option 2 – If you’re planning to output to SD or HD video (for example, if you’re rendering a second version of your program for video mastering), set the Render File Type to QuickTime, and set the QuickTime Export Codec to either ProRes 422 (HQ) or Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2. After you’ve rendered the project, send it back to Final Cut Pro.

Happy Coloring!
 
So what are the pros and cons of using CLipFinder's XML round trip conform route, as compared to simply relinking the final edit sequence to the proxies (remade all in one folder by Red Rushes so it becomes do one, do them all)?
 
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