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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Computer for Scarlet

Justin Batchelor said:
Speed and grunt, that's what you will need to edit Scarlet/Epic-L footage. Beef up the ram as much as possible on a laptop, and reinstall the drive to a high speed. If you go for Solid State, only use it to run apps, and have a Firewire 800 drive out the side...
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Current decent set-up with MBP: G-Tech 4TB GRAID, 2008 Late Unibody with 7200RPM internal.
We dont use the system ever even on MP but there are days when you have to read off it.
 
One might also consider WD Velociraptor 600Gb 10000RPM ! They are fat, fast aaaand hungry !

Personally, I'm editing with 3 300Gb and fully satisfied !
 
I have read the thread, and I aim to beef up the drive and memory, but what sort of processor numbers and speed would you need to edit Scarlet 3K and separately how much for s35 footage?

I suppose the question comes down to levels of performance:

How much to edit each of these?

How much to edit these real time?

How much to edit these real time and everything else?

How much extra for burst mode too?


Would anybody from Red like to take a shot?
 
Wayne,
Look, making films is a process and nobody but you can answer these questions. It all depends on the project type, how long, what kind of post you have to do and so on and so on. In general a laptop will not be good enough for big projects, specially if you have to do a lot of grading or special effect type work. You can always buy a decent used tower, stick some more RAM if you have to, hook it up to calibrated display and here you go. with iMac you'll have to send it to some house to correct the colors. If you don't have a specific project, and what you have is enough for now don't buy anything in advance. RED Scarlet is at prototype stage right now, so don't plan on a new system till the cameras are on the market. Also wait for new FCP, as it is supposed to be updated in 2011, so wait and see what is required for the new editing platform.
 
Thanks it is about answering these questions, they are all compartmentalized to make answering easier.

Edit practically (it works quick enough), real-time, do EVERY thing, do this at burst rates. Everything means long and hard doing every normal process to it.

This is the sort of information manufacturers regularly publish.

To make life easier, it should be calculable from your present figures (or better with software updates)).

It is all scientific, and will actually give a performance profile of the software used for different cameras, such things could be estimated from experience, or worked out on paper in minutes from previous observation of how fast the numbers are on different modes, but if anybody insists they could do tests (which would take a while). We can assume Red packages used in preference.

Assuming that memory and drive are not a problem. The factor of difference to 3K from 4K should be at least the difference in data rate (pixels, I don't know how far that affects the results but you can measure the difference between existing modes of similar ratio of data rate, pixels and frame rate, with as many of them the similar as possible). Same with Epic Lite (scarlet s35) and burst mode (though I do not know how much that affects finale processing, but examining again the difference between modes with as many things similar difference as possible). You make as many of the piece of strings equal then ask how much difference is left in between the remaining pieces. But how much are the data rates of the various modes are we were not told before, that is a key.

There are many variations in laptop and in desktop configurations, but all processing actually happens on processors and GPU's (if you are lucky). Once you put enough memory and drive performance in there that is whats left. So, towers, laptops doesn't not really tell use much on their own.

So, this would take an very experience and observant member, or somebody from the team responsible at Red to answer, as I was getting at before. I submitted the question and the url, last night to Red. As they are on holidays, if any passing red expert could take a proper crack at it, that would be great.

These are things that should be known before hand, in the FAQ, "Likely to be at least X configuration to edit, at least Y to real time edit, at least .... etc. I have to organize finance to buy camera and computer system, so I, as with many others, will need to make decisions before the sale.

I need a new system in general, and the new Imac is out in the first half of the year, Macworld around the corner, and the model is desperately in need of an update. Latest word is new Panel size and consumer pricing, lets hope it is the top model, and it gets a 30 inch+ 3d panel (I have nearly given up hoping for the runaway beast 3840 wide panel which has refused to come to the low end market again) with a better configuration of processor then this years.
 
iMac is not a good option imo, since it leaves you no opportunity to color correct. These displays are OK for some work, but you will need calibrated monitor, or it's a trip to edit house.
Laptops- you will run problems with speed, heat issues, but 17" and MXo2 mini will at least give you the option of color grading.
Nobody can give you the answer you are looking for, since nobody is able to edit this footage yet.
 
Robert Rogoz said:
...

Nobody can give you the answer you are looking for, since nobody is able to edit this footage yet.
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Not sure why you would say this. The footage from Scarlet will be R3D files shot in REDCODE RAW - the same as what is now being shot with RED ONE and, more recently, EPIC. RED ONE footage is edited every day in a variety of NLEs running on a variety of hardware configurations. Not sure why anyone would suggest that doing post production with Scarlet will be any great mystery.
 
Robert Rogoz said:
iMac is not a good option imo, since it leaves you no opportunity to color correct. These displays are OK for some work, but you will need calibrated monitor, or it's a trip to edit house.
Laptops- you will run problems with speed, heat issues, but 17" and MXo2 mini will at least give you the option of color grading.
Nobody can give you the answer you are looking for, since nobody is able to edit this footage yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for these answers Robert. As I and Terry have said, it should be estimable from present Red/Epic editing/post production. Also, I am sure that Red knows exactly what is required, and will let us know after they get back from holidays. I think if we were to say Jim's name a few times, he might see it ;) .

I already have A 42 inch full hd calibrated display I can use as a second monitor. But it is a shame if I have to buy a calibration package to calibrate a full sized Imac.
 
I believe the iMac has a Mini Display Port for supporting a 2nd monitor...if you buy a mini display adapter to DVI and then DVI to HDMI adapter you can hook up any calibrated monitor I'd think...so I don't think color correcting is limited on the iMac.

Am I wrong?
 
Wayne, you are going in circles. Looks like to me you are set on buying an iMac, so go and buy it and see if it works. I would not buy one, as it doesn't allow you to reconfigure the machine at all. Since you have a 42" calibrated display (which would cost big$$$) spending extra $500-700 on a Mac Pro would make more sense, as you can expend the setup as you need to. Adding HDD's to the tower (I think they have up to 4 bays) would cost far less and would be much better system compared to external RAID. iMacs don't have eSATA (unless they changed that recently), so with iMac you are stuck with FW800, which is fairly fast, but nowhere near the speed of eSATA. MBP- only 17" has Pci slot, so there is your only option for eSATA on laptop. If it's the same as codec as RED ONE, then any system with 6G RAM will do just fine.
 
Hardly going in circles. Straight, once we know how much is required, we know if present or new one 'cuts' it, otherwise it will be another year of me not buying Apple. So that is 34 years and growing, most years not even a thought (having a stab at Apple here), usually because of something that Apple does to hurt itself.

Your Logic is also very expensive for me, you could try it your self, but I'd prefer to be certain before I spend my money on an Imac.

The Imac would be more convenient for me, and does the Pro come with a 4MP 27 inch monitor.

I didn't buy the Imac because it didn't have USB3.0 or other options for high speed external drives, and various external multimedia equipment.

If you are saying that so many megabits a second makes Esata better, drives actual data rate is usually limiting factor. Maybe more than a few drives these days can sustain a write speed of more than 100MB/s on the inside of the disk. Imac has two internal drives (a Solid state option). So, only raid is a concern that Esata or USB 3 suites clearly.

I bought, don't laugh, a color calibrated 42 inch Viewsconic TV a few years ago cheaply, which looks like it uses an older version of the technology in some of the extra bright Samsung 3D units. It will do as the second viewing screen, and yes I am serious about calibrating the Imac if there is package for it.

The question was about processing numbers, not circular arguments about Imac. Each year brings less you have to expand the top Imac. If it does not cut it, a PC it may be instead. But please, lets just wait for somebody knowledgeable to come along and try answering.
 
Any existing MBP, newer iMac or MP will edit RED ONE footage. However if you don't have a PCi slot ability you can't hook up any device (like MXO) to have blue screen only. Any pro edit bay will have blue only- iMac doesn't give you this option. Other then that you are going in circles. Any specific questions can't be answered without knowing what kind of project it is, particularly what kind of delivery method you'll need.
 
The fact of the matter is that a Mac Pro is more of a workhorse than an iMac. It's bigger and its faster in virtually every conceivable way.

It can handle more processors and faster processors. More RAM and faster RAM. More graphics cards and more powerful graphics cards. More HDDs, and faster HDDs. Rocket cards, AJA cards, etc. are all able to be easily used in a Mac Pro. Real RAIDS and the space to accommodate a large number of drives. And it is, more or less, easy to service in terms of adding or replacing the above. An iMac is not.

When pushing 3K footage around, the more you can get behind it, the better. It'll be faster, making you more efficient. And efficiency pays.

So, the ideal, as I see it, would be to buy a Mac Pro.

But it doesn't come with a monitor and it isn't terribly mobile. If those two are serious immediate needs, then you'll have to compromise.

An iMac will get you both, to some degree, and a MacBook Pro will take you even further.

And then, there is the question of what you need to edit 3K footage. It's really not a matter of can or can't, its a matter of time and space. Waiting long enough for things to render out and living with editing smaller proxies (unless you have a 3K display?).

I edited 4K RED footage on a first generation MacBook. Non pro. It wasn't fast, it wasn't fun, but it worked. And if working is all you need...
 
Well, I have reply from Red, and it basically comes down to they are not saying, even after I asked them about Red One requirements. You may make of that what you wish. They suggested asking other people (most of which are confused).

If you don't have defined points that things work in a known way, then how long is the elastic band is the game, and how do you know that the very top of the line Mac Pro (we have already established it works to some totally undefined degree, but for example:) will hardly do anything, and a 4 processor Imac is a book stop.

Have found out that AMD Bulldozer architecture is getting favorable comments over Sandy Bridge, believe it or not.

BTW I need to get a new computer before I get the Scarlet, so I can't wait and wait and wait, anymore.
 
Thanks Michael,

But it is Imac or PC, no Mac Pro, bad enough rewarding Apple by buying an Imac. Minimalised expense for (red is trying to sell me a Reds Rocket too, at thsi rate it is getting pointless for ANY low end person to buy Scarlet. If you are going have to end up buying $10-20K just to get a fixed scarlet system up and running, they might as well go for an AF100 or other option. Reds Rocket is a product that never should be (yes I know the HDSDI ports etc are desirable, but strictly not needed in all situations) you should be able to get a GPU (Like the high end GP-GPU Open CL, Dx11 level one that comes in the Imac for anybody talking about cards) to do most all of it. In matter of fact, some of these cards, if they had been designed differently, could have had reconfigurable ports that would allow simple HDSDI adapters, as they now do with HDMI now. A potential future advancement for 3D card designers to look into. We could, for a hundred or two more, have GPU driven acquisition/rendering/edit cards. All is needed is a standard reconfigurable back end interface structure (very little cost per card) and programming. Maybe Red would establish a standard with Nvidia and AMD ATI (they are killing ATI brand I hear). It is interesting, that many high speed interfaces could probably be handled by a GPU card better than they were traditionally handled by chip sets and processors.

I forgot to mention, I've come back to check up on a report on 4K 30 inch displays, mentioned elsewhere (forgot the link) to see if it is true. That would make a Mac Pro more worth buying.

Found it, you are a legend Axel:

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=704194&postcount=45
http://www.chimei-innolux.com/openc...play/products_medical_R300M1.html?__locale=en
 
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Wayne Morellini said:
But it is Imac or PC
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This is a hazardous road to tread - the conversation usually goes the route of a flame war, so I'll state my opinion and leave it at that.

In my personal experience, using Macs has been more enjoyable (personally and professionally) than using PCs. Unless you have a software allegiance that requires a PC and/or there is a shortage of funds, I recommend them.
 
Michael Olsen said:
This is a hazardous road to tread - the conversation usually goes the route of a flame war, so I'll state my opinion and leave it at that.

In my personal experience, using Macs has been more enjoyable (personally and professionally) than using PCs. Unless you have a software allegiance that requires a PC and/or there is a shortage of funds, I recommend them.
Click to expand...

Oh, Michael. You are soooo brave to post this. :smiley:

(of course, you are absolutely right!) :biggrinjester:
 
Well thanks for all the handy tips and advice guys. I'm sure I'll wait until we get closer to the launch of Scarlet and the possible release of Sandy Bridge and other type advances in the future that may or may not beat Scarlet to market. If there was ever a fun way to blow a lot of money, this looks like it may be it :-)
 
I remember reading a great article on the 27" iMac vs the Mac Pro.

I've been looking for the link for the past half hour, but I can't find it for the life of me.

Basically, it came down to the fact that the Mac Pro is far more future proofed than the iMac (unless you're planning to void your warranty by taking the iMac to the chop shop).

The Mac Pro allows far more customisation further down the line, not to mention a pci express card slot should you ever want to hook up a RED Rocket or and eSATA cable in the future.

But if you REALLY don't want to invest in a Mac Pro, then the next best thing would be a 17" Macbook Pro, or a PC...

I haven't used PC in a while, so I can't really justifiably say anything for or against it. I like the toolset I get with Macs, so I'm fairly partial to Apple.
 
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