Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Complete Red One Camera Package Price

You got that right, Ralph. That's a lot of stuff for the money... What are you thinking of doing for record options? I'm going with a couple RED DRIVEs at first. Although, if they can get the $/GB ratio to half of what is now, I would take a seriously look at RED RAM. It's still a better deal than P2 as it's 1/2 the price per GB. But Looks like you and me both have until later this summer before buying, here's what I'm thinking:

RED ONE body $17,500
RED ONE Preimum Production Pack $2,750
RED EVF $2,950
RED ONE Power Pack $1,450 (other battery options under consideration)
NIKON Adapter $500
RED DRIVE x 2 $1,800
FLASH Module (1.8" SATA) $500

Sub Total $27,450
Reservation Credit $2,500

Total $24,950

I've also reserved both RED lenses, but I think I'm going to just use my Nikons. So that's $2500 down (camera + 2 lenses reserved) that I have already applied to my purchase. So I'm looking at a $25K camera package. I will need a new computer or two and some more lights probably another microphone. I'll probably have $35K to $40K invested in my new RED setup by the end of the year. Not bad considering only 8 months ago, I was still wrestling with the idea of buying a used Varicam or older F900 (body only) for about that same amount of money. Ouch.
 
Lens anyone?

Lens anyone?

Nice numbers....$25k give and take... is everyone going to use photo lenses here? What about those who work in the documentary/TV fields? I think that for these calculations we need to add either a B4 mount + HD zoom lens combo (anywhere between $15-20k or more) or a good s16 or 35mm zoom lens with a controller - probably also at least $8k (for a used 16mm unit) and quite a bit more for new. The Red zoom is nice and only $9,500 but it's little short for documentary work, sports or nature. Hence the possible need to go with a B4 HD zoom from Fujinon or Canon.

So, by the time the dust settles, we are looking at some $35-50k or more.
 
As respectfully as possible. What advantages do you see in using a B4 mount HD lens vs. a very long Nikon lens?

Rocker zoom
Public perception
?
?

A B4 lens will only cover a portion of the image sensor leaving you handicapped as to resolution.
 
Chris, I didn't say the a B4 zoom is better. I only listed the various lens options.

Now, as for the advantages, the biggest is its flexibility. I work mostly in the documentary genre and television and prime lenses wouldn't work for me. As I stated, the Red zoom is way too short, so the remaining options are either PL lenses or B4. I only googled 16mm zooms briefly a few weeks ago and found some used zooms around $6-10k. Of course, these are cinema style lenses that don't have the rocker/start-stop/etc. functions, which means that one can either use manual ring for focal length adjustments (which doesn't always work) or get a zoom controller.

BTW, I realize that I would be using only a portion of the sensor and getting lower resolution but for TV work 1080p will be around for a long time. As we all know, it's not really even implemented yet. For fiction work renting lenses is a better way to go anyway.
 
Here's my estimated budget for a FULL package taking into account my own aggressive eBay buying prowess:

Camera w/ allowance 15,000
Premium Production Pack 2,750
Power Pack 1,450
Viewfinder 2,950
LCD Screen 1,700
Red Drive 900

Camera Total: 24,750

Prime Lenses 3,000
Zoom Lens 3,000
Filters 200
Matte Box 1,000
Follow Focus 1,000

Lens Total: 8,200

Sticks 500
Indie dolly 1,500
HD-SDI Monitor 1,000
Microphone 500
Storage Case 200

Accessory Total: 3,700

Insurance (annual:) 2,000

GRAND TOTAL: $38,650
 
bakalaj said:
Nice numbers....$25k give and take... is everyone going to use photo lenses here? What about those who work in the documentary/TV fields? I think that for these calculations we need to add either a B4 mount + HD zoom lens combo
Click to expand...

IMO, there's no reason to use a B4 mount or broadcast style lenses unless you already own them or have direct access to them. With B4, you only get access to the 2/3" CCD window area, which means shooting anything over native 1080p gives you vignetting, s16 and larger isn't even do-able really. You don't get the auto focus advantages of your lenses, only a power tap where you could rig up a zoom controller. Not to mention that for the price of the B4 mount alone you could buy yourself a Nikon 17-35mm, 50mm prime, 85mm prime and maybe even a 70-200mm Sigma or Nikkor or something to that effect.

If I were going to use RED mostly for ENG, I would go for s16 lenses and shoot 2K RAW onboard @ up to 60fps to FLASH and/or RED RAM.
 
bakalaj said:
You are right about the costs of a broadcast HD zoom. Do you have any suggestion for s16 zooms suitable for documentary/tv reality work?
Click to expand...

I don't know, I haven't looked for them specifically. Occasionally there's older 16mm Cooke lenses on eBay. The last week or so there have been a few like a 9-50mm and a 20-100mm (I think). I'd look for some of the Angieneaux s16mm lenses as you can probably find them used or purchase rarely-rented units from a rental house. I would think you'll need two s16 lenses to cover the bases. One short zoom like that 9-50mm (usually goes for under $1200), but it's only 16mm, not s16. And maybe a longer one like a 70-200. But long zooms are going to be tricky to manage without auto focus in a run-n-gun situation. Then again, B4 mount lenses will suffer from that too... You just get the option to rig up a zoom controller or rocker switch for the zoom servo.
 
CAMERA BODY – $14,000 (2500 allowance and 1000$ reservation)
Red one premium production pack -$2,750
RED EVF Viewfinder $2,950
Nikkor 35mm Photo Mount $500
RED DRIVE 320GB $900
$21,100


leaves me alot of room for some nice nikkors, matte box and FF (unless i can modify my ff so it doesnt have that backlash)
 
AppliedVisual said:
You got that right, Ralph. That's a lot of stuff for the money... What are you thinking of doing for record options? I'm going with a couple RED DRIVEs at first. Although, if they can get the $/GB ratio to half of what is now, I would take a seriously look at RED RAM. It's still a better deal than P2 as it's 1/2 the price per GB. But Looks like you and me both have until later this summer before buying . . .
Click to expand...
Hey, AV! I'm just starting out with one HDD. Since it stores at least an hour of 4K REDCODE (has that changed--is it two hours now?), I typically don't shoot more than an hour in a day for my short film projects. Eventually, I'm sure I'll get two HDDs. Why are you getting the "deluxe" rail package? It's so much more pricey that the "basic" rail package.

Don't really understand the RAM storage options yet. Is the $500 flash RAM just so you can overcrank?
 
Bakalaj,

IMO if you do a lot of EFP/ENG work genres for which B4 2/3" HD ENG lenses are the norm, and already own the lenses, or have the ability to rent them easily for such projects, using B4 2/3" HD ENG zoom lenses with RED One makes very good sense - especially for those project genres where the field workflow doesn't call for/allow the use of cine lenses and accessories (follow focus, matte box, rails, etc), and delivery is in resolutions of 1080p on down. In some genres of mobile EFP/ENG work, the ability to zoom with a rocker switch on your right hand is critical to the motion and ergonomics of the workflow. The left hand is racking focus and adjusting iris. Those who haven't worked in those genres sometimes assume that a S16 cine lens, with a follow focus is the cure-all for all things EFP/ENG - not so IMO. Some EFP genres call for that S16/FF setup - but others call for a powered zoom rocker, thus B4 2/3" HD ENG lenses.

If you don't already own a B4 2/3" HD ENG lens, you're on a budget, and you need to buy one, they can be found for as little as $5.5k USD (18x without doubler). Adding in a RED B4 adaptor, the B4 2/3" HD ENG zoom option can be enabled for under $10k, including used lens and adapter.

I gather from your posts that you haven't discovered the new EFP/ENG for RED forum on RED User. Many of your B4 questions have already been answered on that forum by those with experience in B4 EFP/ENG work. Check it out...
 
Ralph Oshiro said:
Hey, AV! I'm just starting out with one HDD. Since it stores at least an hour of 4K REDCODE (has that changed--is it two hours now?), I typically don't shoot more than an hour in a day for my short film projects. Eventually, I'm sure I'll get two HDDs. Why are you getting the "deluxe" rail package? It's so much more pricey that the "basic" rail package.
Click to expand...

I'm planning for the more expensive production pack, but that may change when individual accessory prices come to light. The extra handles, longer rods, 15mm rod adapter all figure in to that.

As for RED DRIVE, I'm getting two because I don't want to be stuck with just one. I too only shoot an hour or so per day when doing narrative work and short film projects. But I need longer if I'm shooting interviews, wildlife/outdoors, events, etc.. Having two is more record time, redundancy in case one fails or I don't have time to dump its contents. <edit> Also wanted to add that 4K REDCODE RAW @ 24fps plus audio should be about 100GB per hour. So we should get about 3 hours of record time on a RED DRIVE.

Don't really understand the RAM storage options yet. Is the $500 flash RAM just so you can overcrank?
Click to expand...

The FLASH and RED RAM options don't let us overcrank -- no recording options available with these vs. what we get from RED DRIVE (at least none announced). I want at least one FLASH option at my disposal for times where hard drive recording isn't ideal. Examples would be where the camera will be exposed to extreme temperatures - especially cold, vibrations (mounted to a car), anything moving fast with off-axis directional changes -- that wreaks havoc on fast-spinning hard drive platters, which are effectively gyroscopic discs spinning at 5400rpm.
 
AppliedVisual said:
I'm planning for the more expensive production pack, but that may change when individual accessory prices come to light. The extra handles, longer rods, 15mm rod adapter all figure in to that.
Click to expand...
Hmm . . . I guess you get the "cage" right? I would only want the 15mm adapters, I guess. I'll probably buy the rails ala carte.

AppliedVisual said:
As for RED DRIVE, I'm getting two because I don't want to be stuck with just one. I too only shoot an hour or so per day when doing narrative work and short film projects. But I need longer if I'm shooting interviews, wildlife/outdoors, events, etc.. Having two is more record time, redundancy in case one fails or I don't have time to dump its contents. <edit> Also wanted to add that 4K REDCODE RAW @ 24fps plus audio should be about 100GB per hour. So we should get about 3 hours of record time on a RED DRIVE.
Click to expand...
Yeah, redundancy is all I would get the second one for. THREE HOURS??? That's GREAT! I didn't know that!

AppliedVisual said:
The FLASH and RED RAM options don't let us overcrank -- no recording options available with these vs. what we get from RED DRIVE (at least none announced). I want at least one FLASH option at my disposal for times where hard drive recording isn't ideal. Examples would be where the camera will be exposed to extreme temperatures - especially cold, vibrations (mounted to a car), anything moving fast with off-axis directional changes -- that wreaks havoc on fast-spinning hard drive platters, which are effectively gyroscopic discs spinning at 5400rpm.
Click to expand...
So we get all that for only $500? I got sorta confused with all the RAM options. I certainly plan to do a lot of vehicle-mount shooting. I guess I'll throw that into my "minimum" package too. How long a record time would that hold?
 
Ralph Oshiro said:
So we get all that for only $500? I got sorta confused with all the RAM options. I certainly plan to do a lot of vehicle-mount shooting. I guess I'll throw that into my "minimum" package too. How long a record time would that hold?
Click to expand...

Each FLASH option is $500 (except RED RAM), but the FLASH options don't include the media. The CF module probably makes a lot of sense for people getting their cameras within the next month or so as the media is commonly available. 16GB 30MB/s rated CF cards are about $270 right now. 8GB cards are about $100 for 25MB/s rated. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned here before, FLASH data transfer specs usually don't match up with what's advertised. No surprise there, neither do rates advertised for hard drives... Nothing new about that. We don't have all the details on the FLASH options yet, like we don't know how many CF cards the CF module will hold. I'm guessing it holds either 2 or 4 CF cards. But we should find out at NAB.

If you're planning a lot of vehicle mount shooting, a FLASH option seems like a good idea.
 
AppliedVisual said:
If you're planning a lot of vehicle mount shooting, a FLASH option seems like a good idea.
Click to expand...

I totally agree - for any kind of action shot mount where vibration may be an issue. Shoot it to Flash, then dump it off to a laptop or drive, check it, and shoot some more. With those kind of shots you always end up checking the footage frequently anyway to make sure it recorded correctly, framing was good, etc.
 
Jeff do you have any links for "16GB 30MB/s rated CF cards are about $270"?

And am I right in saying a 16GB would give just under 10 minutes 4k?
 
Paul,

16GB should give you a bit less than 10 minutes (like 9.6min) of 4K @ 24fps... Yep.

As for links to cards, I just tried pulling up the one I was remembering (@ newegg.com). Card isn't showing so they either can't get them anymore or it's not in stock. I've got a price list from a local distributor I deal with for a lot of other components they have a 16GB CF listed as 180X|33MB/s for $298, but I don't have a brand or link I can share, I can call them on it to see what it is. The SanDisk Extreme III is rated at 20MB/s and sells for about $250. Their Extreme IV 16GB is due by April 1 and sports a 40MB/s rating. I would expect that one to be just under $300 from discount vendors. The 22MB/s QMemory 16GB CF card sells for about $235. Samsung is now shipping their 32Gbit NAND chip and vendors using it will be able to produce CF cards up to 64GB in size. So maybe by the end of the year we'll see those. I think 32GB CF cards are due from some vendors in the next month or two and they all have faster speeds with the shift to NAND tech.

It will be interesting to see what specs RED has for their various FLASH modules and what media they recommend at NAB time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top