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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Commercial Footage shot with less than $19k?

You really need to ask yourself some serious questions.

What is your goal?
Are you making a movie?, or Do you want to own a camera?

Two different goals that can not be happily married. (on that budget)

There are so many other things that you have to spend money on.

Food, Food, and Food. Then you have bills.

People will work for free, but they won't work hungry.

Camera is the same if you have a great script there are people with cameras. They will work for experience and points.

Don't try to get a camera and then make movie.

Spend the money where is needed.

If your script is not strong enough to get a free camera rental maybe it should not be made.

Yes, you will need to share the equity but it will get made.

I know, been there done that.

You will get a lot more than $100,000 in values for your $20,000 if you treat people right.

Treat them well, and then feed them good food.

Tek

P. S. you forgot the other half of the movie, the sounds.
 
CJ Roy said:
Crates and sandbags in place of sticks?

Man.
Click to expand...



compared to spending $8,000 on a tripod?

the sandbags are looking pretty good (for now).

Maybe RED will announce an affordable tripod at NAB....


In all seriousness, this is part of why I'm excited about Scarlet. I'll bet I can put her on my $80 tripod with no problem. And on my $400 "CamCrane" jib arm.

The RED ONE is almost within reach for me (almost), but it's all the accessories, cam support, etc that add up and make it prohibitive.
 
This is absurd to me. If this was listed as a rental option I dont think anyone would bite. Some of these 'solutions' would so severally limit your production capabilities that I could make a laundry list of better ideas.

On the top of my list:
Super16. I'm the biggest red-proponent on my block, but you can still get an old eclair NPR modified to s16 for pretty darn cheap. If nikon glass is your best solution, you can easy get a nikon adapter for that sucker. Even using expensive glass you'd come out on top:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Classic-Eclair-...oryZ4691QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

NPR with S16 mod $5000 (get a quote from du-all?)
Nikon adapter $10 (!) http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-F-to-C-mo...ryZ79000QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Really nice set of Nikon Primes
14mm f2.8 $1400
28mm f1.4 $3000
35mm f2 $400
50mm f1.4 $200
85mm f1.4 $1000
105mm f2 $1000
tripod $2000
Batteries and Charger $1000

Total $15,010

Almost half that money is in some real designer lenses that have high resale value.
 
part of the title of your thread was "commercial"

i understand all of the "rebel", "used car price", "film festival hit", filmmaking, but if you really do have a script that's actually good and have the real skills and talent to pull it off, don't handicap yourself right out of the gate because it's going to be a tougher race considering everyone and his uncle is going to be flooding an already saturated market with Red features. Maybe a little patience, save a little more money (6k will get you some decent sound, etc.), and then go for it. just a thought.
 
Just a theoretical guys...

Just a theoretical guys...

Tekcin and SuperOptics...great comments. I agree that it takes A LOT more than a camera to make a movie and number one is the story.

But honestly...this was just a theoretical. I didn't say "shot FOR less than $19k", I said "shot WITH less than $19k in equipment". Granted, money would have to be spent on words, people, sounds, post and more but that wasn't the question.

Great people were making great films 75 years ago with seriously archaic technology. Are you really going to try to tell me that you couldn't shoot a great feature film with this bare bones setup? Sure it might be a huge pain in the *#&, it might stretch the patience of the cast and crew, but in theory, it could be done. Am I going to do it or am I saying I could pull it off, no, not a chance, just having some fun talking about it...and predicting some young upstart will do it someday and perhaps this post will inspire him/her to try.

Why is it that "experts" in a particular field always feel the need to tell the dreamers what cannot be done? Doesn't that go completely against the grain of the concept and spirit of RED in the first place? Can you imagine what kinds of replies Mr. Jannard would have gotten from the top engineers at Sony and Panasonic had he posted his plans for RED on a camera manufacturers user group a few years ago?
 
shooter said:
Why is it that "experts" in a particular field always feel the need to tell the dreamers what cannot be done? Doesn't that go completely against the grain of the concept and spirit of RED in the first place? Can you imagine what kinds of replies Mr. Jannard would have gotten from the top engineers at Sony and Panasonic had he posted his plans for RED on a camera manufacturers user group a few years ago?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of your level of expertise and I won't assume, but knocking "experts" of film, is really like knocking experts of any field. Usually we try to listen to them, improve upon what they've learned and passed down. Not to simply prove them wrong. After all, they are the "experts". They might actually know a thing or two and have the experience you desire.

Can a low budget film be done on 19k worth of gear? Sure, it's been proven thousands of times. But it begs the question, do you want to limit your film production value to 19k? The Porsche Pursuit car or the Spacecam may be out of your budget, but a decent set of sticks and a head have proven their worth for decades.

So your ultimate question, can it be done on the Red for 19k? Possibly. More likely if you rent your gear, and do a less than 19 day shoot. If 19k is your budget, it makes little sense to purchase a camera. Rent one, or use something else. Primer, Sundance Grand Jury Winner/Alfred P. Sloan Award 2004, is a great example of this. Super 16, less than 10k and a shitload of prep work.

There's too many options to get hung up on this and force a square peg in a round hole.

Sincerely,

-CJ
 
bhtdmc said:
compared to spending $8,000 on a tripod?

the sandbags are looking pretty good (for now).
Click to expand...

Yes, you could spend 8k, but you don't have to. Buy used, buy smart. Research, play around, rent a few. Know the differences, know what you're missing.
 
shooter said:
Why is it that "experts" in a particular field always feel the need to tell the dreamers what cannot be done? Doesn't that go completely against the grain of the concept and spirit of RED in the first place? Can you imagine what kinds of replies Mr. Jannard would have gotten from the top engineers at Sony and Panasonic had he posted his plans for RED on a camera manufacturers user group a few years ago?
Click to expand...

I've seen people make commercial success and theatre showings on 3 chip dv cams. Of course you can do it... It'll be hard, but it can be done.

and in my opinion i think its the wanabees rather than the 'experts' that will persuade otherwise.
 
shooter, you have no mounting hardware whatsoever in the package you're describing. and once you have your hands on the smooth round form, you'll realize that this isn't optional, it's essential. you need somewhere to place and hold the LCD, at least.

a top mount
a top handle

i have no issues with shooting a stripped-down RED, i shoot one myself, while i wait on back ordered accessories: camera body, lens, LCD, battery belt clip, top mount, handle, 2 CF cards, CF module...that is pretty much as small as it gets.

but i think your dreaming is overlooking some basic realities. you will need to pick it up, at some point....
 
It's been said before, but here it is again...

RENT. Rent the gear you need to shoot your feature, short, spec, whatever. If my budget was only $20K - $25K, I wouldn't consider buying a RED. Without a pretty complete package with proper support, mounting hardware, etc.. you can't even rent it out. Unless you let a rental house pimp the camera for you and take another cut of the action.

What is the intent for a $20-$25K camera budget? Do you really need to own the camera?

But go ahead, buy it if you want. I think in another year, there's going to be lots of people who bought a RED and realize that it's $25K they could have spent better somewhere else. Fine by me, I can pick up a second or third camera at a discount. Hehe.
 
Okay, so being realistic then...

Okay, so being realistic then...

Planet e

You definitely have a point on the mounting hardware. Thanks.

Kilgroe and others, I also appreciate the advice about renting.
It is smart advice and I will consider. But this isn't for just one project.

Considering everything said (And I greatly appreciate all replies) I'll most likely take the advice and buy what I'll really need in practice. It's probably been discussed on another thread but if anyone with a lot of experience could list out the bare minimum setup they would be comfortable shooting a feature with, perhaps I can scrape up the rest and save myself a lot of trouble. I put up my deposit and put in my reservation a year ago and my camera should ship this month.

Fortunately I already have a great tripod, head and dolly (60 lb max), a jib/crane, an HD field monitor, a green screen studio, and all the hardware, software and storage necessary for post. I just need advice on what else is really needed to be productive and effective. For example, why does everyone need (or recommend) so many lenses? Am I missing something critical there? Couldn't nearly everything be shot with 2 or 3 lenses?

Just FYI, I currently shoot with (2) HVR-Z1U's and have the telephoto and wide angle lenses for those.

Any advice appreciated.
 
Here's my list. It isn't ideal, but it gets you there.

Camera Body: $17,500
RED Drive: $1,100 (including cable)
Batteries4Broadcast C4-SM4010-150WH Package (4 Batteries and simultaneous charger) - $1900
Basic Production Pack - $1200
Nikon Mount - $500
Nikon 17-35mm Zoom(Used) $1000
Nikon 50mm F1.4 AI(S) Used $150
Nikon 85mm F.1.4 AI(S) Used $800
Screw-on Filters - $200
Total- $24,350
 
stevesherrick said:
Here's my list. It isn't ideal, but it gets you there.

Camera Body: $17,500
RED Drive: $1,100 (including cable)
Batteries4Broadcast C4-SM4010-150WH Package (4 Batteries and simultaneous charger) - $1900
Basic Production Pack - $1200
Nikon Mount - $500
Nikon 17-35mm Zoom(Used) $1000
Nikon 50mm F1.4 AI(S) Used $150
Nikon 85mm F.1.4 AI(S) Used $800
Screw-on Filters - $200
Total- $24,350
Click to expand...

Steve's got it about right. Couple of small tweaks: lose the red drive, and buy the 85mm 1.8 lens instead. I picked one up for 150 bucks, and it actually gets some reviews that rival it to the 1.4. Its a great lens. (maybe i just got lucky at 150 bucks?) So that'll knock 1750 bucks off of the 24,350...so....brain is full of beer mush right now......22,600.
 
That's some zoom...

That's some zoom...

Thanks for the list Steve. BTW, checked out your blog. Cool.

That's some serious zoom lens, what is that?

(under finally, lens has support?)
 
Here's my theory on the RED Drive. At 320GB, it gets you a lot of bang for the buck. You will need to wrap it up in some kind of shock absorbing material if you want to do anything with harsh movements. The CF module is $700 with 1 card, an 8GB card or under 5 minutes of 4K. I think in terms of value, Shooter could go this way.

As for the 85, you could go with the 1.4, 1.8, or the 2.0 (which is what I have). They would all work, although have slightly different characteristics.

Shooter, the lens is a Cooke/Technovision 18-90. Nice lens.

Steve
 
stevesherrick said:
Here's my list. It isn't ideal, but it gets you there.

Camera Body: $17,500
RED Drive: $1,100 (including cable)
Batteries4Broadcast C4-SM4010-150WH Package (4 Batteries and simultaneous charger) - $1900
Basic Production Pack - $1200
Nikon Mount - $500
Nikon 17-35mm Zoom(Used) $1000
Nikon 50mm F1.4 AI(S) Used $150
Nikon 85mm F.1.4 AI(S) Used $800
Screw-on Filters - $200
Total- $24,350
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how will you view what you'r shooting? Isn't the LCD or EVF required?
 
falcon418 said:
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how will you view what you'r shooting? Isn't the LCD or EVF required?
Click to expand...

naw, those particular tools are only for framing purposes (i can't believe that I totally missed that again):help:
 
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