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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Come on al ready!

Zakaree Sandberg said:
If I was producing a tv show.. I would pick alexa.. time and money.. dont have time to go through a long post process. shoot-edit is the name of the game for TV. the alexa footage looks really good too.. RAW is great for film.. not really needed for tv imho
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Just got done on the second season shooting 'The Hard Times of RJ Berger' on MTV.

Sure we finish 1080, but shooting 4khd means that the editors have plenty of wiggle room to punch in without degradation if they get into a tight spot.

Transcode to prores 1080 overnight at point 360 - editors have the footage the next day and are cutting right away. Now we're doing the online and heading into color correction.

Shot 120fps multiple times when 60 just wouldn't have been enough.

But ultimately, price. I mean Red costs half the price which means I get more and better lenses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fanboy. I like Arri and the Alexa and would happily use it for a suitable project, I'm just saying I don't see any reason not to use Red for a TV show, speaking from experience.
 
The best thing about being a Red owner is that you have upgrade paths. I’m sure red will work out the delivery issues with the release of Epic and we will all be very happy to have bought red early.
 
I think Arri sometimes benefits from the same type of cache that Leica does ... rich tradition, history and brand reputation. However, while they are still experiencing the sales benefits of that, I'm not sure it will last.

Ultimately filmmakers are primarily performance people -- and will go with the solution that best meets their needs (not just resolution, but durability, consistency, ease of use, the list goes on). With the Epic, it's superior to the Alexa in every way except this magical Pro-Res module ... so it just needs to get our there and have a chance to establish the superior reputation.

Going back to my Leica comparison ... I know Arri is a bigger, seemingly more successful company than Leica -- but I think Leica actually has a better grasp of who their target audience is and what will make them happy. The M9 is not as advanced as many cheaper cameras, but it makes a LOT of customers insanely happy. And though the firmware is still being fine-tuned, along with the new lens releases, I'm hearing the same great things about the S2. They are very clear on the target market for that.

But with Arri, even though I know the Alexa has done well so far -- I think it's far more a result of what other camera companies AREN'T doing. In other words, the other big guys being so slow to innovate ... and Red being fast to innovate but late to release.

I mean ... if the Epic were out one year ago (Note to Jim: I FULLY understand why it's taken longer) -- and especially if had that Pro Res add on -- I wonder what the Alexa sales would be? My guess is the sales/demand would be at least 70-80% lower than it is right now ....
 
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The straight-to-edit Prores argument is a BIG deal for a lot of companies because it's easy for a non-technical person (i.e. a producer or line-producer) to understand. I know of a major movie company that is going to shoot Alexa for all their up-coming features at least this and next year because they feel the RED workflow is too heavy for what they do (no I don't agree, but their point is valid). They've been shooting HD (F750s etc w/ Pro adapter) for some years and are generally fine with what they get out of 1080p resolution. They think 1080p is absolutely fine for a film-out which to some extend is somewhat true (taking the kind of films they do into consideration - and budgets too). I've heard they're probably going to completely kill the DIT on films too because they primarily use the DIT as a copy-monkey anyway. Big mistake if you ask me, but that's another story for another thread.

You can talk resolution, features and dynamic range all you want, but the reality of it all is that it's only ever about what gets the job done on budget, on time AND with the least amount of problems or hassle in the making. Sad but true.

Also - a lot of DPs just want to shoot on "the newest thing" because there's a lot of prestige in the business by shooting the newest stuff first. The Alexa is currently the "newest thing", so it's only natural that DPs want to shoot it if they haven't yet.

But please, RED, let's get a Prores module for the EPIC as soon as possible. It would absolutely kill any arguments in favor of using the Alexa.

As soon as the EPIC is out I'm sure everyone is going to want to shoot that instead of the Alexa. Then ARRI will release another camera that everyone will want to shoot... Then RED will... and so on :-)
 
I'd love not to have a bolt on PRO RES making module because Id like the camera to stay smaller not grow bigger.

Just a button to click which will be push RAW or REDLOG 2 PRORES to the flash card or (SSD)

I can then shoot RAW R3D's when i want them, ... or a REDLOG 2 4444 or 442(HQ) PRORES file for if I need to have gradable editable files instantly without the need of transcoding over night.

So then I have a choice for files for my quick turn around TV projects, or R3D's for my Film projects.

If ARRI can do it, Im sure RED can. (well Arri can't yet) but they say they can.

Alexia will be dead for me then.
 
From my understanding from earlier threads is that we will be able to record with the PRORES or H264 module simultaneously along with R3D's. There hasn't been any indication from what i have read what the PRORES module would record onto either whether SSD's or CF. But being able to record both at the same time will be very beneficial and the size and weight would still be well below the Alexa.
But considering the very extended delay in getting any gear of RED's at the moment or even people waiting on components for the R1 it may be a very extended delay to see the PRORES module in the near future. i'm afraid of finally getting my EPIC X and the ongoing wait afterwards for all these modules etc...or maybe it's just my hangover from the R1 and things will be different when they start shipping.
 
Mark, the same with my clients here in Slovakia.
I have 3 RED ONEs, i am waiting 2 EPICs in Stage2, but some of my clients dont want to shoot with this, i can tell them everything, and it dont help.... :o(
So i ordered one Alexa last year, /i must because of clients, i dont want to loose them/i will have it in march /maybe february now/ :o(((
and they will shoot with me, but with Alexa... :O( realy bad..
i am not happy with this...
 
Peter Nevedal said:
Mark, the same with my clients here in Slovakia.
I have 3 RED ONEs, i am waiting 2 EPICs in Stage2, but some of my clients dont want to shoot with this, i can tell them everything, and it dont help.... :o(
So i ordered one Alexa last year, /i must because of clients, i dont want to loose them/i will have it in march /maybe february now/ :o(((
and they will shoot with me, but with Alexa... :O( realy bad..
i am not happy with this...
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It's weird how clients dictate what camera you use..
99.9% of the wouldn't have a clue what they are talking about, except all they here is bullshit and think its true.
Alexia is still a great camera. Just expensive, big, slow, and not RAW.(yet)
 
Imagine if RED didn't announce the development of EPIC and waited until it was ready to ship.. we would have seen many more Alexa owners, IMO. Red has been very smart in this regard.
 
imagine if the big announcement at NAB (which is only a few months away) is a working and ready to ship PRORES module.

I'm pretty sure anyone on the fence about ARRI/RED will soon be convinced to go with RED.
 
If marks friend can splash out 300k on Alexa's then he probably (hopefully) has a good plan how to recoup costs. You never know, he could more than likely afford to buy some epics too.

A friend of mine bought an Alexa a few months back (after he sold his RED ONE) to please alot of his clients and crew that he worked with. He hasn't used the camera once due to ARRI UK hiring the camera back from him for their own productions. their is Obviously a shortage of cameras if even ARRI themselves dont get one...lol
 
As a Red owner the Arri side of the fence is looking pretty green. AlexaPLUS in your hands within 2-3 weeks of order and that's the whole she-bang. Camera, viewfinder, full line of industry standard accessories, handful of cards...you're shootin'. Want a spare viewfinder or more storage? No problem. Sony 1Tb SR solid state cards are also coming and that promises ArriRAW to the cards.

I've still got my sights set on Epic but I'm sitting inside clicking refresh on reduser to see if EVF's and SSD's are shipping while the guy a block over has a fully supported Alexa.

To reference the original post, IMHO it's not a mistake to buy into Alexa, even after Epic drops.
 
Agreed. Your friend is smart--he's out making pictures NOW instead of waiting for a camera. It's the operator, not the system.
 
Paul Steinberg said:
AlexaPLUS in your hands within 2-3 weeks of order and that's the whole she-bang.
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You're kidding, right? Maybe in Europe the situation is different but out here orders from NAB are yet to be completely fulfilled...
 
Cail Young said:
It isn't slow, in either sense of the word, nor is it any larger or heavier than a Red ONE.

It is a lot faster at eating batteries, though!
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Sorry, I meant compared to an EPIC... it's big,
Compared to a RED ONE it's slow. 50fps vs 120fps
2k Pro res compared to 4K RAW...
Expensive yes... $95k compared to $26k
and yes it eats batteries..

still a well built camera though. I love Arri accessories. Can't beat em..
 
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