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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Come on al ready!

Jason Sinclair said:
What's your poor mate going to do when you are going to offer lower rates for better quality. He'll need to pick clients that really feel the need to get their moneys worth by having a real film looking camera on set. But considering that those same clients are going to loose out to their competition because they are spending too much and getting an inferior product, he's got about 8 months of deception left. Then his cameras will be worth maybe half their price. Can't you slap common sense into him?
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He can lower his rates too, quite possibly he will have made his investment back already, or it will take a little longer to fully recoup. Do you really think that even if there are 10,000 epics a year from now that no one will shoot with Alexa? The reality is people still rent or hire people to shoot with the hvx200. Alexa is much farther up the chain and will be just fine for many productions even if you and I know there are higher quality alternatives available.
 
Looking forward to buy one used Alexa for less than a half price in a year when the market will be flooded with 10,000+ Epics and Scarlets...
 
Yah I agree that name means something and Arri has that going for it. But also agree that many Epics in the wild WILL affect demand (purchase and rental) for the Alexa and it's overall price. (I'm sure Arri is furiously working on developing an answer, if they are smart.)

I mean ... just look at what the 5D did. It's a $2,500 camera that produced comparable quality to the high-end HD cameras ... and because of the lower cost and portable form factor, it exploded and dramatically reduced demand for these chunkier, more expensive cameras.

Likewise, and ESPECIALLY if there's a Pro Res module -- imagine the impact on Arri when you have an Epic S that literally does everything better than the Alexa (including a highly portable form factor) ... and you can get a package for roughly 25% of the Alexa package cost.

It's going to be a no-brainer, just like the 5D was ... particularly because the 5D had drawbacks, where the Epic will only have advantages :)
 
My understanding of the industry is that work comes from many angles, and the hardware decisions are often made by what we would consider as 'the wrong people'.

When an ad / marketing firm pitches a client on a commercial venture they are looking to sell the sizzle, which often means what is currently hot in the trade mags. If they pitch the client on Arri Alexa, because the name is hot in the industry mags, and the contract is signed, it doesn't matter if the is the 'lesser tool' for the job. I'm sure this is not always the case; it probably largely depends on the client / firm relationship. My Red was once rented in a situation where the director wanted to use his new Sony, but the client wanted to be present and the firm didn't want the client to see a cheap pro-sumer camera being used to shoot an expensive commercial.

There is one Alexa local to me, and it is almost always rented. The owner predicts it will be paid off within a year and is selling off his Red One. Funny thing is he makes his bread and butter with CineAltas, and he never really learned the power inherent to the Red One. He also bought a set of Cooke S4s and with the addition of the Alexa they are finally being rented. He is not an ad man, it's just what the people on the other end of the phone are asking for.

The way I see it they are different tools that fit different needs. The Red One is a purpose built digital cinema camera whose raw(-ish) cine footage can be dumbed down for other purposes. The Alexa occupies the actual gray area between pro video and cine, so there is a strong argument for it for people wanting the cine look for TV. The true modular makeup of the Epic (ProRes module) will allow it to be built out into that gray area as well, but the Alexa will always carry the Arri name. Even though the technology is arguably a generation behind the Red One, there will still be a strong marketing driven demand for it.

In my previous career I would often be brought in to fix computer system that were improperly deployed by the client. These systems were invariably designed not from technical references but from marketing materials. The difference is in the IT world they cannot tolerate a system that is not performing properly (like paychecks and time sensitive SEC reports). This industry is about art, which is subjective. The ad firm may heavily invest in Alexa based projects and never learn that Red footage is much more color-correctable or that they can massively reframe without loosing resolution. Even if they do find out they may not care as their result is 'good enough'. The saying is: Nobody ever got fired for hiring 'Big Blue' (IBM); and in the same way no one will ever get fired for using Arri tools.

Bob
 
AnthonyFlores said:
Yah I agree that name means something and Arri has that going for it. But also agree that many Epics in the wild WILL affect demand (purchase and rental) for the Alexa and it's overall price. (I'm sure Arri is furiously working on developing an answer, if they are smart.)

I mean ... just look at what the 5D did. It's a $2,500 camera that produced comparable quality to the high-end HD cameras ... and because of the lower cost and portable form factor, it exploded and dramatically reduced demand for these chunkier, more expensive cameras.

Likewise, and ESPECIALLY if there's a Pro Res module -- imagine the impact on Arri when you have an Epic S that literally does everything better than the Alexa (including a highly portable form factor) ... and you can get a package for roughly 25% of the Alexa package cost.

It's going to be a no-brainer, just like the 5D was ... particularly because the 5D had drawbacks, where the Epic will only have advantages :)
Click to expand...
I think we focus too much on the comparisons between the cameras. The real meat of the comparisons will be company-wide. RED will outperform well-established companies, IMO, by coming to market with the total package, not just a superior camera.
 
Well.....Can't wait for the EPICS to start being delivered (in vast numbers)
Currently we have received 5 Alexa EVs, and every single one is working almost every day. That means a lot of extra rental days for our lenses and support gear. It's also a great investment to keep our clients sticking with our services, instead of visiting the competition for those Alexa shoots.

My prediction is that this trend will continue until RED starts delivering those babies...
We still have our MX cameras working, but the main focus from the DP's is the Alexa.
I can understand this as most shows here are destined for 1080p finish, and 99.9% of the footage shot is the base framerate of 25p.
The main attraction of the Alexa system is: 14 secs startup, very nice viewfinder, 3 independent imaging chains (Viewfinder, monitor, recording) 1080p monitoring, independent operator assistant menu systems, small solid state recording media, FULL s35 aperture, and very low weight in a hand held configuration due to the integrated design.
These are all features that the EPIC will match or surpass, but until then ARRI has the advantage.
The trend is also that many "Film only" DP's are starting to pick up the Alexa, shooting high end shoots, digitally for the first time. This is something that RED/EPIC will benefit from as well.
There is no doubt that it's just a question of time until RED gets their new products on the market.

Too bad that delivery of the Epic/SSD/B-EVF was delayed. Until they are ready, we simply have to keep the ball rolling. We simply have to invest in what the market wants, but of course still save enough cash to be ready when RED starts to deliver their next generation

HDR, and >60 fps full aperture is areas that only the EPIC owns :-)

The Red one camera has been a solid performer for 3 years. Of course a newly designed camera will show strengths in areas that are not upgradable in the older camera: Mainly CPU/DSP power, and bandwidth. I'm still very impressed in what has been created, and continues to be created every day with the Red One. The MX upgrade was definitely the
facelift that kept it competitive. The SSD's and B-EVF would bring it even closer to the current competitor.
 
It's good we have cameras to use while we wait for the ultimate to mature without rush. Seriously, if the Epic was 2k and the Alexa was 5k and both were at the same price point, i'd pick the epic due to size and modularity alone. I am just glad that all other aspects are in order.
 
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