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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Come on al ready!

Mark Toia

Mark Toia

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A sad day for me yesterday,
A good friend of mine decided to purchase 3 Arri's. Even after all the cool shit Ive been showing him, he fell for the ARRI sales pitch. (Instant PRO RES and he wont get an EPIC for years due to the ultra slow building process. And only Jims close mates will get one.... etc.. This is what the Arri REP feed him.

I told him Ill loan him my RED ONEs for free until the EPIC comes out... but ... no...

He said he was sick of waiting for the (so called) coolest camera ever made, and started to harp onto me saying it'll be Christmas 2012 before he ever gets one in his hands and the Arris are shipping now.

I tried Jim, I really tried. I've lost him to the other side.
Please tell us when they are coming, I'm number 158.. I need to save more of my friends. :mad2:
 
Such is life...
 
Red has allways been aware of this dillemma, and have made their priorities. I'd be surprised if Jim wasn't even more frustrated than you, but OTOH I think the featureset choice was a good one in the long run... If the Epic MX gets an even longer shelflife than the RED One (for both RED and the customers), all the extra investments will pay back. I am hard pressed to say that I do not think we'll see an Alexa II announced within a year...

As you know, we're more or less on the same page as to rgb recording...
 
Mark Toia said:
I tried Jim, I really tried. I've lost him to the other side.
Please tell us when they are coming, I'm number 158.. I need to save more of my friends. :mad2:
Click to expand...

Well, RED told us many times that we will have an EPIC 2011. They don't have the best history in making deadlines, but they also told us that from the very beginning. So if someone doesn't believe them now, another statement about when EPIC will hit us won't change it.
As far as we know, this summer will be great....

And as far as only Jim's friends getting a hands on experience... Considering all he has done, is doing and will be doing for us, I personally consider him a friend - even though I have never met him and probably never will.

I feel for you, though. Don't get me wrong. Watching how a friend gets pulled over to the dark side is tough! But be patient... they will find their way back soon enough ;)
 
It was a bit different during the development cycle. It is not easy to predict schedules with truly innovative technology development since you don't know what problems you will encounter or how long it will take to solve them.
Now that the cameras have been locked and released for production it is a matter of logistics. Not a trivial undertaking by any means, but much more amenable to predictable schedules.
 
The only difference between Red and other companies is that they tell about the process openly. Arri has been developing the Alexa for some time but they never went public with specs or features before close to release. So imagine that we got the news today that a camera like Epic was coming out soon, that "betas" has started shipping, people would then be a little more friendly to the the timeframe. If Alexa was presented at the time it was in development it would 1) have the same "taking too long" stamp on it and 2) it would have far better specs after cinematographers and alike commented on the "in development"-specs.

Sorry, but I just think it's a sign of ignorance that people are so blind to HOW these two cameras developed. Epic developed together with the community, it got it's specs from the demand, not an "idea" of the demand. The community has been apart of the development, that is something Arri never did... they released the next camera, without saying anything during it's development. That resulted in a camera that to me isn't up to the standards of todays cinematic demand.

What I like with the Red company is that they understand how things works today. The "community", the socializing online has been a key for their success. Arri rides on the success of their 35mm cameras and history. The most successful companies today use the current state of history, the ones who lags behind are the ones who thinks the world isn't changing. Everyone needs to adapt on a daily basis, the ones who don't will die off like flies. It's true in nature and it's true in todays business.

Harsh truth of today...
 
Hey... I just think buying the Alexia is mad! waste of money.
I just feel for him. 300K for the lot minus accessories. And (if)(when) the EPIC turns out in force.. he will be kicking himself for many many years.
And I bet every time he wants to shoot light weight hand held 3d, or hand held 2d stealth or 5k or RAW... Or not have an army of camera assistants following him around holding all the gear... he will be calling me for my little EPICs with the big punch.

I feel sorry for him.
ARRI sales people are very good.. (and so are there accessories)
 
I know where you're coming from Mark. And the sales pitch plays on the long-held idea in this business that everything good costs the earth. Aside from the slippery delivery schedules, Red's biggest hurdle, IMHO, is that they are fixing EVERYTHING at once, including giving it all to us at a reasonable price. I'd be willing to bet there's a whole bunch of people out there who would have passed up the Arri for Red if a Red cost $150k.

As you rightly point out, the guy has just invested $300k+ in something that is already outdated and he's going to be kicking himself. I mean, IMHO, the Red One MX is a better camera, price aside, than the Alexa. More rez, smaller, lighter, more frame rates, audio, playback, RAW to CF cards ...
 
Big mistake, especially ordering now. NAB orders are still being fulfilled in Australia so he will be waiting at least 4-6 months. We only got ours in December.
 
It's all good, at least now you can go "told you so" when you get the EPIC!

All is well, he'll turn back to the force once his felt it...
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
every ac i talk to hates red, loves arri.
a huge chunk of dps too..

so from a rental standpoint.. he will probably rent his alexa out, more than you will an epic

sad truth
Click to expand...

I've sensed this too, but I wonder what their reasons are - what are they? I never get answers that make any sense.
 
Does anyone know how many Alexa's there are in the wild? Maybe the rentals are working so nicely because there aren't very many? Here in Istanbul there are only a handful, but they are always rented.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
I've sensed this too, but I wonder what their reasons are - what are they? I never get answers that make any sense.
Click to expand...

The reason is lack of knowledge and experience with digital cameras. Most comes from film and most of them don't want to learn something new.
The ones who doesn't care about learning something new never hate cameras like Red.

The technical facts are crystal clear, anything else is bullshit out of plain ignorance.

But one thing I know from my experience with both these cameras is that the Alexa is fast and easy, it IS "shoot > post". The navigation on the camera menu is easy and fast, the camera is better balanced handheld, the ports are in their right place and editing is instant, grading is instant, finishing is instant, whatever system you use, Avid/FCP etc. For Red you can do it with r3d native, but you need alot of horsepower for that and that horsepower cost money.
So, THAT is Alexas strong points. Anyone who actually work in the camera department knows what I'm talking about.

But on a technical note, it's not as good as Red. For TV, if the money is there, I would choose Alexa. It's faster to work with plain and simple, and no surprise errors or backfocus shifting as I've experienced alot of times with Red. You can save alot of time with Alexa if the resolution demand never goes over 1080p.
 
Surly anyone who's interested in buying cameras NOW for commercial reasons would also buy Epic( when ready )I can't see why any one would have to choose between either/or why not both?! if you can justify the money you'd spend on any other camera system than RED, than you can justify money on Red as well ...neither would seem to be a waste of money...it's all about inventory

All i can say is I'm glad I'm in my 20's... I can make stupid decisions and get away with it :):anti-old:
 
I don't think "feeling sorry for him" is the correct attitude. I think it's a bit elitist to say these things against another camera company. The Alexa is a beautiful camera and fits right into many post-workflows without secondary tools or additional hardware. There is also a much bigger world out there other than the motion picture movie world ie broadcast television, commercials, high end corporate etc that doesn't require the extra resolution of Epic or even RED ONE.
I'm not saying it would be my choice right now, I'm just saying that maybe threads like these should be moderated off of reduser as I think they only do harm overall to the companies reputation. Not that long ago RED was the underdog and facing quite a bit of persecution and ridicule for their first offerings and it seems silly to have these "our camera is going to be better than your camera discussions when there are truely only a handful of people out there that actually have worked with and seen Epic footage and not just one or two clips but a lot of it ie Spiderman crew.
I have to say there has been an abundance of RED ass kissing going on lately. I know this is reduser and all and I think the guys at RED are all doing great things as well for our industry but I'd like to see less "I love you RED" and more hard facts here. Ultimately, the googoo, gaagaa, attitude of some does way more harm than good here whether they know it or not. Just sayin.
BTW - I'm not an Alexa or RED fanatic, I just admire pretty pictures something of which both cameras can achieve. That said I own RED ONE 2322 and have ordered stage II and do not own an Alexa.
 
Cail Young said:
Big mistake, especially ordering now. NAB orders are still being fulfilled in Australia so he will be waiting at least 4-6 months. We only got ours in December.
Click to expand...

Yowser!!!!!!

Im telling him right now.
They promised him 2 weeks.

But then again.. he maybe its still best for him.
The EPICS for people out of stage 2 will take forever anyway.

Catch 22
 
If I was producing a tv show.. I would pick alexa.. time and money.. dont have time to go through a long post process. shoot-edit is the name of the game for TV. the alexa footage looks really good too.. RAW is great for film.. not really needed for tv imho
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
If I was producing a tv show.. I would pick alexa.. time and money.. dont have time to go through a long post process. shoot-edit is the name of the game for TV. the alexa footage looks really good too.. RAW is great for film.. not really needed for tv imho
Click to expand...

Hm...

Working TV drama here...
Not sure that statement isn't without more perspectives...

NOT saying that the Alexa isn't good, but the comparison isn't THAT straightforeward...

You have to add a couple of extras to the R1 to get comparative workflow, but the pricedifference allows for that.

THEN you get RAW, varispeed, reframing and some bonuses "for free".

Won't get too far into this, but the comparison is a bit more complex than this.

Actually I think The A and the R1 excells at different things, mostly...
Of which all can be relevant for TV.

But this myth calls for a 2k/1080 RGB thingy on the Epic...

If you cannot kit your computer out with several rockets for the price difference...
 
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