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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Colour grade DLP ?

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Appleton

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Since I need to preplan; what about using a DLP/SXRD, to color grade, check focus, etc... - specifically one of these :

Sony SXRD's
http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/se...productId=1003338&navigationPath=n32050n32190
http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/se...productId=1002217&navigationPath=n32050n32190

The only difference I can see is the response time and the lamps. The 50 is 2.5ms while the 100 is 5 ms. And the 50 is 200W, the 100 400W. I am leaning towards the 100 (previewed them both) but if i can get away with the 50 I'd do it.

Leaning towards multipurposing, and hoping this might suffice instead of an HD reference grade monitor.

And suggestions on a DLP/SXRD

screen
receiver
best room config/ for editing and grading

would be appreciated. btw the barko2K or is8 is way out of the price bracket.

Thanks.
 
Sony DLP

Sony DLP

Sony doesn't sell DLP based projectors - they are all LCD or SXRD which is still an LCD-like technology. None of these projectors are bad choices, but all the LCD's (including SXRD) suffer from elevated black levels. My personal choice would be one of the new Pansonic 1080p home projectors coming out this Summer - I have one of the 720p versions at home and its quite stellar.
 
Evin Grant said:
Sony's SXRD projectors are probably a better bet. 15000:1 contrast 2K capable.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-VW100.htm
Click to expand...
Sorry, duped the same url. (edited).

Yup, Evin, that's the other one I was talking about -> the 50 or the 100 is the choice.

I'm wondering if I could get away with just the 50 (they're both 15000:1, 1080p). ? The prob. is I don't have the cash for everything and am trying to multipurpose as much as possible (without totally sacrificing quality).

Is it obtuse to think that I could color grade on the 50 or 100 ? Keep in mind if anything has the budget beyond 1080p; it will be going to a local post house.

Also, getting the right size room, ergonomics, cooling, colours is important.

I seriously wish i could just be done with it, and have a barn like Shamalayans. Editing, grading, sound design, theater, and coolness all within walking distance of your house out in the country.

Unfortunately, i'm trying to design a mini version on an indie budget...

these compromises are driving me bonkers.

Thanks.
 
Stuart English said:
Sony doesn't sell DLP based projectors - they are all LCD or SXRD which is still an LCD-like technology. None of these projectors are bad choices, but all the LCD's (including SXRD) suffer from elevated black levels. My personal choice would be one of the new Pansonic 1080p home projectors coming out this Summer - I have one of the 720p versions at home and its quite stellar.
Click to expand...
Out of curiousity, why? Does the Panasonic have better levels ? i was planning on buying in a month or two, but i'll wait if it's advisable...

have you ever tried grading footage on your 720p projector, Stuart ? and what screen did you buy for the 720p ?
Thanks.
 
I agree with Evin, look a the new model SXRD sets. Sony has pretty well abandoned DLP in favor of their SXRD tech. However, don't think that says anything negative about DLP... There are some really nice DLP sets out there. The Samsung HLS series are pretty good, some models are better than others within that series. The 71" HLS-7178W is probably the best DLP on the market right now - it's amazing and far superior to the 70" somethings from Mitsubishi and others.
 
AppliedVisual said:
I agree with Evin, look a the new model SXRD sets.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jeff. The SXRD stuff I saw was pretty impressive. I'm not really a tech person, but previewing true 1080p on a large screen is a must in our workflow.

I guess either it's not that great an idea (colour grading on a SXRD projector) or no ones tried it here ?

Maybe i should just set aside that money for a good colorist and some suite time at Du-art. But, what do I watch Brad Pitts newest movie on... ?
 
Appleton said:
btw the barko2K or is8 is way out of the price bracket.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Bugger. I was going to suggest the Barco DP100. We had one set up in the Cinema at my old work with a Lustre. Very very tidy (although the Lustre was a bit crap). They were using it for grading a lot of their feature work that was to end up back on 35mm. Using the DP100 with Lustre we were able to apply both the LUTs for the projector, as well as for the intended film stock, so the colourists could grade seeing what it would look like on the final film record.

Edit : so if they are out of your price range, what is your budget?
 
projectsplat said:
Edit : so if they are out of your price range, what is your budget?
Click to expand...
Well, it's basically the same circus - whatever we can get away with. there's a total budget (don't really want to reveal that) but the most for a preview/grading monitor would be around $10-15K (maybe more if it's an absolute necessity)
... this would be a lot simpler if it didn't have to be multipurpose.

it's a bit of a game, moving budget items around to try and keep within budget but still spend prudently.

where to allocate funds ? i'm sure i'm not the only one.
 
Sony DLP / Panasonic LCD

Sony DLP / Panasonic LCD

Not that it matters too much, but I don't recall that Sony ever offered a DLP product. The reason the Panasonic 720p projector got such good reviews when it was launched were - no visible barn door effects, very low black level due to a dynamic iris (Sony now also has this) but they also spent a lot of time working with Hollywood colorists, so the color was very accurate.

If they now have 1080p resolution and under $5k price, its a very good deal.

My "screen" is $ 50 worth of grey paint and some ceiling molding to make the frame mounted directly to the wall; saved over $600 there...
 
Lol, Stuart; i'm part Scots so the paint on the wall sounds "bonny"...

the place i previewed the projectors said i'd need a $3K screen. forget the brand name. "stu-art"? is that a brand name ? i think that was it. someone named a screen stuart. kinda funny. (hey, tip your waitress)

ok. plan B. i'm going to find some 1080p material and take it in to Panasonic and Sony projector retailers and make a decision (may wait till the Panny comes out). it's probably a stupid thing to do, but i'll color grade on one of 'em.

for my next trick i'm going to turn a construction tripod into a thing o' O'Connor beauty. kiddin'.

thanks for the links, Donatello.
 
Some experiences I made last year with color-grading and projection.

I've got a Sony VPL 100 1080P projector. Yes, the HD-experience on a true
1080p projector is stunning and great to have. The Sony VPL 100 has a very "filmic" look with an unbelievable 1-15000 ratio due to a tricked out automatic iris-system. 35mm scans look better than in any conventional cinema round the corner.

The downside: The Sony VPL 100 is not very bright, actually it is pretty dark compared to normal off the shelf office-projectors.

But: If your suite is painted in medium grey (black might be a bit depressive) and you bring down every thing illuminating (your screens as well) to a low level you'll be fine. Together with a good sound system you will be amazed.

For color-correcting bare in mind that blacks on any projection will not be really black (the screen is white). This is system inharent. You need a vectorscope and/or a conventional CRT to prevent you from over-crushing the blacks.

I tested SpeedGrade with an calibrated EIZO 24 monitor (contrast-wise close to a CRT) and the Sony VPL 100 on a real-life project and liked the setup very much.

Hans
 
Thanks, Hans, much appreciated.

i suppose it would be prudent to wait until NAB to see what FCP integration comes up with and/or Scratch.

that's the thing is it's all interelated.

i'd stick with a CRT or maybe an ecinema solution, if i didn't need to 'creatively preview'. both for myself and potential clients. our business model is very new.

Maybe 300 other people want to purchase the VPL100 ? i'm sure Sony wouldn't mind making a deal. kiddin' again. it's late here.

Good advice by all.

cheers.
 
Yup the lamp is the big difference.

The VPL 100 uses a Xenon lamp and the 50 uses a UHP Mercury lamp. The Xenon lamp produces light closer to 6500K and allows for greater colour accuracy. Of course that doesn't mean the 50 won't be good enough, just that the 100 is better.

M
 
I read the new Panasonic includes special "hollywood" modes for color accuracy.

However, in all cases you will need to properly calibrate the projector and signal being fed into it.
 
Appleton said:
Thanks Jeff. The SXRD stuff I saw was pretty impressive. I'm not really a tech person, but previewing true 1080p on a large screen is a must in our workflow.

I guess either it's not that great an idea (colour grading on a SXRD projector) or no ones tried it here ?

Maybe i should just set aside that money for a good colorist and some suite time at Du-art. But, what do I watch Brad Pitts newest movie on... ?
Click to expand...

The only 1080p projector I have experience with is the Sony Qualia SXRD "Ruby". It's very nice, but I don't know if it would be the ideal solution for color grading -- I think I would rather have a rear projection SXRD or DLP for that. I'll be using my 71" Samsung DLP along with a 13" SONY HD studio monitor. :) The Samsung is better than the Sony SXRD (IMO) and to me has a sharper picture with better color range. It impressed me right out of the box and I got great results just tweaking a few settings. After about a month, I had it ISF calibrated and the thing is just awesome for HD-DVD and BluRay viewing.

If you need a large screen, take a look at the SXRD sets as well as the DLP sets from Samsung and others. Personally I think Sony and Samsung have the best HDTV offerings for rear projection units right now. For plasma, Pioneer and Panasonic are the best, especially the Panasonic for color, but Pioneer has better processing and detail.

You might want to head on over to www.avsforum.com and check out the discussions there. Lots of good information on all sorts of displays and projectors and good comparisons.
 
If you want a bonafide studio monitor JVC has a 40" one for around 6800 USD (msrp) with HD/SDI option card...
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101630&feature_id=01

Here is a JVC rptv they are claiming is accurate enough for post work....
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101554
It's only 44,995 USD.

These Home Theater rptv and front projectors has circutiy to enhance and correct the video, exactly what you don't want when color grading.

Joe C.
 
Thanks, Jeff, Zeke.

i really need to have as large a preview screen as possible, pixel for pixel 1080p, while keeping it fairly light. SXRD seemed a good choice. I looked at the avsforums but couldn't find anything about trying to get a good guerilla colour grading with them. most were concerned with 'enhanced' processing...possibly the best solution is to colour grade on a small HD reference monitor (even if it's not 1080p) or eizo, combined preview with a Samsung/Panasonic/Sony projector (one step down from what I would be able to afford just alone).

maybe we're biting off more than we can chew, but that's when it's fun...
 
I've had a great time using the Canon Realis SX50 projector's. I have used them to CC still images and after I figured out how to calibrate the projector, it worked great as a CCing tool for video too.

I thought the quality was also very good, great contrast and brightness. I just plugged it straight into my Mac and worked like magic.

I projected it onto a very large sheet of paper coated foam core that matched the Epson Lustre paper that I was printing on, worked great.

I actually think projectors are more in the future for home cinema rather than HD tv's. So far, i have never been inpressed with any image on any of the HD tv's out there. I mean its better than standard TV, but doesnt even compare to projector quality. Cant wait untill someone unveils a 4K flatscreen that can display highlights as well as projectors do.
 
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