Colour grade DLP ?

[Stuart English]

Color Grade

Color Grade

Changing focus a bit (no pun intended) if you are looking for a display to color grade against you could also consider the new Panasonic 1080p plasma panels. Its about $6-7K retail c/w HD-SDI inputs but Panny plasmas were the first - and still may be the only ones - with a true black and 10 bit grey scale.

Model TH-50PF9UK

Peter Putman (HDTV Expert) review -

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Panasonic_TH-50PF9UK.html

 

[Stuart English]

Color Grade

Color Grade

And here's one for the Mitsubishi HC5000 LCD Home Theater Projector

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/hc5000.html

 

[Appleton]

I actually think projectors are more in the future for home cinema rather than HD tv's. So far, i have never been inpressed with any image on any of the HD tv's out there. I mean its better than standard TV, but doesnt even compare to projector quality. Cant wait untill someone unveils a 4K flatscreen that can display highlights as well as projectors do.

At one time, projectors were overpriced, IMO. Now with the new tech, and LCD/Plasma getting up into shooting distance of them (price wise), I think they're decently priced.

Thanks for all the links guys. i wanted to get an overview of opinion and you guys didn't disappoint. great responses ...

Stuart, one of the reasons i was thinking of staying awaty from plasma is that there'll be keycode or time code in the video i'm editing/colour grading and i was thinking of possible burn thru. would that be a consideration ?

a question that occured to me from you guyz' great responses is if there was a way to maybe put a sort of a template of data reference on a blu ray/hd player in true 1080p and hook it up through the HDMI connection to get a better judge of how the projector/plasma screen might judge colour rep, levels for editing.

all the info. i read is about how projectors, plasma tweaks the image to get the best picture by processing. obviously , when editing and colour grading you want the truest representation of your images as you can get without the messing about of enhancement.

is my idea of a blu ray disc with images, possible color luts, color charts etc... feasible ? or is it wasted effort ? (i know the projector has to be isf calibrated, but it may be a good initial judge).

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Stuart, one of the reasons i was thinking of staying awaty from plasma is that there'll be keycode or time code in the video i'm editing/colour grading and i was thinking of possible burn thru. would that be a consideration ?

First of all, no display technology is immune to image burn of some type. But overall, most technologies these days are really good and there's not much to worry about. The latest plasma models do suffer from burn-in on the same level as a standard CRT display, and in some cases actually tolerate it better. However, due to the way plasma tech works, you can have residual images, or persistant images. These are not burn-in, but ghosting of bright images that may remain on the display for some time. Plasma and CRT use the same type of phosphors in their screens to transmit visible light. A CRT display uses an electron beam from the CRT to excite and illuminate the phosphors. Plasma displays use small pockets filled with a gas micture located behind the phosphors. The gas is electrically charged and thus causes it to emit UV radiation, which in turn excites and illuminates the phosphors. Residual or persistent images occur in plasma displays when these pockets of gas become over-charged and retain a latent charge or static charge. They hold it like a capacitor or battery and it slowly bleeds off over time as current is run through the gas. Various types of insulation and means of dissipating the residual charges are continuously revised and updated along with newer and better gas mixtures to try and combat this. Many plasmas also have extra programs that the user can activate to help remove some of these residual images. Some people recommend running plasma displays on about 50% brightness with very consistent, full-screen imagery with no stationary images for 50 to 100 hours to break it in. Personally, I haven't seen any evidence of that helping anything.

Once again, there's huge threads and tons of information on this aspect of plasma displays over at AVSforum.com. And it is definitely something to consider when buying a plasma... Some of the residual images can last months, literally.

is my idea of a blu ray disc with images, possible color luts, color charts etc... feasible ? or is it wasted effort ? (i know the projector has to be isf calibrated, but it may be a good initial judge).

I think with the internal processing of these displays, you will have a great opportunity to fine-tune your video for final output and delivery on a home theatre system. A good display will make it easy to test and see if your content is good for delivery on a consumer format. But for initial color grading work, you would probably be better served with a studio monitor or other such display like those JVC ones mentioned here that are actually for coloring / editing purposes. ...Not as big of a demand for them and hence why they cost several times more than the consumer model which uses the same screen size and often many/most of the same internal components.

If you plant to deliver for broadcast or film, a good studio display is probably going to be required for best results. If you'll be consistantly delivering on DVD and eventually HD-DVD and/or BluRay, then a top-notch consumer system will get you very close as you can test the final output of the delivered format. ...Or at least that's how I see it. But like I've said before, in my setup, the 30" LCD monitors give me the resolution to work with, the 13" studio monitor gives me the color and the ability to playback at 72Hz so I can check motion of a 24p source and make sure its right and the ISF calibrated DLP will let me proof my final product knowing it will look good on a full 1080p display that's really as good as it gets for consumer/prosumer home theatre setups at this time. The only thing I see changing by the time I finally get my RED (probably late this year, maybe), I will be able to start thinking about a more powerful workstation(s) and possibly 4K capable monitors to connect to it -- I don't see the studio monitor, color issues or DLP/Projector considerations changing much. Probably a few new models this summer with more bells/whistles. 72Hz and 120Hz refresh rates would be ideal (coming on future models) if you work with 24p.

So all things to consider...

 

[Rob Lohman]

Such discs already exist. The home theater crowd already has some impressive calibration software & hardware they use. If you want to go that way I would suggest you check the various projector forums on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

 

[Appleton]

But like I've said before, in my setup, the 30" LCD monitors give me the resolution to work with, the 13" studio monitor gives me the color and the ability to playback at 72Hz so I can check motion of a 24p source and make sure its right and the ISF calibrated DLP will let me proof my final product knowing it will look good on a full 1080p display that's really as good as it gets for consumer/prosumer home theatre setups at this time. The only thing I see changing by the time I finally get my RED (probably late this year, maybe), I will be able to start thinking about a more powerful workstation(s) and possibly 4K capable monitors to connect to it -- I don't see the studio monitor, color issues or DLP/Projector considerations changing much. Probably a few new models this summer with more bells/whistles. 72Hz and 120Hz refresh rates would be ideal (coming on future models) if you work with 24p.

i guess the majority opinion is that colour grading on these isn't too great an idea right about now.

Out of all the options mentioned, i think the small HD monitor along w/ a cheaper SXRD/Samsung/Panasonic models is the best budget-> results choice...depending on when the cam delivers (i'm in the early hundreds) i'll buy then. assuming there is the 72Hz,120Hz refresh rates Jeff mentions.

How about this monitor for colour grading :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...928&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

... and then use the Sony VPL50 or one of the other cheaper models -Panasonic/Samsung projectors listed for preview, check focus etc...?

BTW, Rob, i'm not techie enough to get into what I mean exactly by those blu ray discs, but i meant optimizing them for getting the best rep image per DCI specs. But, considering i may have to go with a cheaper projector to afford a small HD ref monitor too, that may be as important. Specifically, if it does get picked up for projection (not exhibition per se) then it'll go thru a whole different set of parameters.

plenty of possibilities. just trying to do the camera, and my own work (humble, ain't i ?) justice.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Those 72Hz / 120Hz refresh rates I mentioned were talked about last year and shown this year at CES. We'll see a few LCD panels @ 120Hz and plasma @ 72Hz by the end of this year... Probably not before you get your RED One. And it will just be one or two models with limited availability. So don't get too excited just yet.