Colorista or Speed Grade?

[jake blackstone]

OK - then adjusting the exposure and WB is the only workflow necessary. Leave the R3Ds as they are except for those changes.

And from what you seem to be saying, that would be quite workable in Resolve, as you rarely adjust metadata anyway (and thus, having the native R3Ds in Resolve wouldn't be very important to you).

This would probably be quite a lot faster (grading with DPX or EXR or whatever) than grading from Resolve with R3Ds.

And the best part? You're working with full debayer quality, no RR needed.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Contrary to popular belief, there is nothing wrong with using DPX, as an intermediate codec, as long as it is done correctly.

I agree 100%. Michael Cioni has also written extensively about the use of DPX files on Social Network and Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, both of which required DPX because of the number of finished VFX files in each film (over 1000 effects shots). Using uncompressed DPX also takes a lot of the workload off the color-correction computer, since no debayering and decompression is needed.

I have worked on projects where the DPX renders were a little buggy in spots, or the relative exposure settings were not optimal, and I had my assistant go back and redo a few shots or a few sequences. But we're talking 5 minutes out of a 120-minute film. In most cases, we were trying to get more detail out of highlights, so it was just a question of dropping the levels half a stop or a stop. We still had lots and lots of range to get the precise picture the DP and director wanted, using a custom LUT, and in some cases custom curves and an extra layer or two.

 

[Nick Shaw]

One caveat with DPX (other than which I fully endorse what Marc and Jake are staying) is that 16-bit DPX is (obviously) preferable to 10-bit, but not all apps support it. This being the Adobe forum it's worth noting that After Effects (at least up to CS 5.5 – I've not tested 6.0) only supports 10-bit DPX.

 

[Cory Petkovsek]

No 16-bit DPX in AE CS6 yet. However OpenEXR works in AE, supports 16 (or 32-bit) and has tighter compression (at 16-bit) than DPX (at 10-bit) in my experience. It's also supported by resolve, and with ProEXR is supported in premiere and photoshop.

 

[Brendan Bolles]

I've written an AE plug-in called DPX Plus to read 16-bit DPX in a pinch. You're still limited to 10-bit when writing out of AE though. In general it's probably better to stay away from it if you can.

Brendan

 

[jake blackstone]

I'd like to now just how many users are successfully using EXR to grade with in production settings or how often one NEEDS to use 16 bit DPX for grading? Anyone...?

 

[Cory Petkovsek]

I don't think anyone needs 16-bit dpx with openexr available, but if it wasn't available then for sure.

We are using OpenExr for our vfx workflow with RCX, Premiere and AE on our feature, right now. The post-vfx EXR clips combine with the R3Ds for grading.

I'm sure ILM uses it.

I know at least one Scratch based DI house in LA that prefers to work with 16-bit tiffs. But at 5k they are so dang big (60-80mb/frame). EXR compression results in about half the size.

 

[jake blackstone]

I don't think anyone needs 16-bit dpx with openexr available, but if it wasn't available then for sure.

We are using OpenExr for our vfx workflow with RCX, Premiere and AE on our feature, right now. The post-vfx EXR clips combine with the R3Ds for grading.

I'm sure ILM uses it.

I know at least one Scratch based DI house in LA that prefers to work with 16-bit tiffs. But at 5k they are so dang big (60-80mb/frame). EXR compression results in about half the size.

I did mention very specific format- EXR or 16 bit DPX for color grading . i think for VFX EXR is becoming more common now, for color grading... not so much. And that is what we're discussing...

 

[Nick Shaw]

I did mention very specific format- EXR or 16 bit DPX for color grading . i think for VFX EXR is becoming more common now, for color grading... not so much. And that is what we're discussing...

When you do your VFX in 16 bit it makes sense to preserve that into the grade, does it not? Certainly a big studio project I'm currently working on (NDA means I can't give details) is using a fully 16-bit (or above) pipeline right through into DI.

 

[jake blackstone]

When you do your VFX in 16 bit it makes sense to preserve that into the grade, does it not? Certainly a big studio project I'm currently working on (NDA means I can't give details) is using a fully 16-bit (or above) pipeline right through into DI.

Is 16 bit DPX used? Of coarse. But that wasn't the question. The question was "How often one NEEDS to use 16 bit DPX for grading?"
How much more image latitude, practically speaking, will you retain, while working with 16 bit Lin vs 10 bit Log? Even working with film latitude and DPX 10 bit Log I had never had any issues of running out of dynamic range of the image. Is increased amount of data really worth it, financially speaking?

 

[Nick Shaw]

I would suggest that using 16 bit log rather than 10 bit log DPX gives you more margin to push the image around before you need to go back to the RAW and recreate the DPX with different settings. If it is an assistant not the colourist who made the choice of settings to bake into the DPX, the colourist can be more confident that they are seeing everything that's there without needing to go back to the RAW to check. Is that worth 50% more data? I would think it often is.

 

[Bob Gruen]

Hi there. . .

We are currently editing in Premiere Pro CS5.5 and are wanting to add a better color grading program.

Magic Bullet's Colorista II was demonstrated to me today, and it seems quite powerful, but how does this compare with CS 6's Speedgrade application?

I'm looking for both power and ease of use.

Thanks much gentlemen.

Stephen

As far as ease of use and bang for the buck, Colorista II is a good choice. It comes with the three layers of color correction but the truth is that you'll probably skip the first normalization layer as you will accomplish that with your debayer settings (which should get you 90% to where you want to be). The secondary layer gives you the masking function and you can use the last layer to finish the overall look.

As others have pointed out in this thread your video chain is important too. A good budget solution is to use an nVidia Quadro video card connected via display port to an NEC PA series monitor with the spectraview calibrator. Premiere Pro, the Quadro, and the NEC all support 10 bit color, and the calibrator is a little unique as it adjusts settings in the monitor, not the signal coming from the computer.

Bob