Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Collimation of the Birger mount

Lauri Kettunen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
1,063
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Finland
Here are instructors how to collimate the Birger mount.

1) You need a backfocus chart.

If you don't have one, download a chart from http://www.mediacollege.com/video/test-patterns/back-focus.html and print it to paper. About 1/4th of an A4/Letter size paper is big enough.

2) I recommend to use the EF 24-70mm/f2.8 L lens or equivalent. Put the camera horizontally on a tripod and measure the height of the mid point of the front glass of the lens. Tape the back focus chart on a wall such that the mid point is on the same height as the mid point of the lens.

3) Check that you have the mid cross set on in the LCD/EVF, point the cross to the mid point of the chart and mesure that the sensor is perpendiculary to the wall and 1.0m away from back focus chart. Try to adjust the distance within say 1.0cm.

In practice the sensor lies very accurately on the same plane as the camera plane about 2cm backwards from the Red logo in the front of the camera. (This plane has 8 small screws.)

3) Now, focus of the lens to the 1.0m mark, set the iris wide open, for this adjust the shutter speed accordingly. Set both edge highlight and 1:1 view on in the camera.

4) Remove the front part of the Birger mount, adjust the collimation ring, put the front part of the mount back and go back and forth until the image is sharp. When the reddish ring around the center is the largest, this is also the sharpest image.

5) Zoom to the tele end of the lens.

6) Find which way you have to manually focus until the image is sharp. Say, this is X meters instead of the 1.0 mark.

The goal is to collimate the mount by iteration such that the image is simultaneously sharp both at wide and tele ends of the lens. Quite likely, the focus mark will not be precisely 1.0m.

7) If you have no exprience how to iterate to the proper setting, employ a trivial average approach: Set the focus of the lens to the average of 1.0m and X meter, i.e. to (1.0 + X)/2.

8) Zoom back to the wide end and go back to the 4. step and iterate until the changes are negligible.

To test that the collimation is correct, measure the distance of the front of the lens to the back focus chart. Then put a EOS body to the lens and check whether the auto focus finds the same focus distance.

If you understand about differentiation, instead of the averages read how much the focus distance number changes with respect to the numbers in scaling of the Birger mount and use the ratio (change in focus distance)/(Erik's number) to approximate how much you need to adjust the collimation. This will converge very quickly to the right setting. The average will converge as well, it only takes a few more iteration cycles.

Hope this is helpful.
 
And if you need the "idiot's guide to collimation" (Like I do) then hold out a little while longer, a video which walks you through the entire process (plus initial setup of the camera, Impero, and the mount) is coming soon

Jay
 
Fine tuning collimation

Fine tuning collimation

While waiting for Jay's video, here are some further thoughts how to make the collimation easily very precise.

1) One needs first to understand couple things:

a) The collomation can be way off and you can still focus the lens. Say the camera is 1.0m away from the chart and after focusing the lens marks can show something like 0.8m or 1.5m.
b) Then markings in still camera lenses are not precise.

Assuming one has a zoom lens that holds focus from the wide to tele end the procedure I gave above bypasses the problem of not that accurate lens markings.

To finetune the collimation, after the first calibration check the setting of the collimation ring. Say it's slot 5 that matches with the golven marking 6. I call this setting 5.6. Now, to finetune while not touching the focus (leave it as it was at setting 5.6) record the back focus chart to R3D-files with settings 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 using both the wide and tele ends of the lens. Then open the files in Redcine and export the frames to tif-files having sharpening=0.0 and details=low. The best collimation setting is the one that makes both the wide and tele end image simultaneously sharp.

My gut feeling is that this way one can collimate the mount at home up to the precision the lens allows. One cannot ask for more.
 
Additional info:

I would go ahead and spin the BF adjustment ring several turns until it sticks out the back of the mount a little (about 1/16th of an inch) before you even begin to install the main part of the mount. This will save you from having to remove the Canon part multiple times before you even get close to the proper BF distance. And at first it can take a full turn of the ring to even make a small difference. I put a small dot of white paint on the BF ring so I could tell what I was doing when turning it.

Also be sure to loosen the 4 screws on the main part of the mount when adjusting the BF ring as they must be pretty loose for the BF ring to even spin. If you do not loosen the main / large part of the mount enough the BF ring will not turn because it is pressed against the RED body.

I would also advise using the widest lens you have for this adjustment. I used a 10-22mm and 16-35mm until I got them both to stay sharp wide and zoomed in. I also set my chart at 6 feet and put a light on it.

Good luck.
 
Someone could explain why a series of lenses is different from another, and requires a particular BF? I made a comparison between Cook and S4 Prime and Ultra Primes and verify different values on same mount camera. When there are ok for ones it doesn't works for others and accuse a huge difference. I do not remember this great divergence in tests of lenses with other cameras that use PL mount. There is any special reason in the RED's structure?
 
Additional info:

I would go ahead and spin the BF adjustment ring several turns until it sticks out the back of the mount a little (about 1/16th of an inch) before you even begin to install the main part of the mount. This will save you from having to remove the Canon part multiple times before you even get close to the proper BF distance.

Good luck.

You do not have to (and shouldn't) remove the Birger lens mount from the assembly:

Birger Collimation Lessons Learned

Also, there is an image plane mark on the body of the RED that should be used for all measuring.

Bob
 
Help and Advise.

Help and Advise.

Hello,

I finally did recollimate my Birger Mount. Before I was on ring 5. And I was getting prefect focus on Zoom in and out on my Canon 28-70mm L

So I decided to recalibrate again because I couldn't hold focus on my wider lens Canon 17-35 and get to the infinity. I don't have the new version of the Birger, or the updated sound board.

I did my collimation with a brand new Tokina 11-16mm. and At the end I swapped and used also the Canon 17mm-35 L (old lens). I did the calibration at 3 feet.

These are my final results and they puzzle me a little bit.

My final ring is 4 and something.

In both the Tokina and the Canon 17-35 the zoom holds its focus and can focus infinity (or at least 30 meter, unfortunately I can't see the infinity from my apartment :-/ Dont you hate New York? :-) ). But the brand new Tokina markings are way off. Like 1,8 feet instead of 3 feet. But it holds focus. On my Canon 17-35mm marks are good.

But now when I go to the 28-70mm the collimation is off and it wont hold focus. This is a little bit unfortunate because it is the lens I use the most. It is an old lens and I had it fix in Canon once. I also tried an old 70-200 (a little bitten) and is was also a little bit off.

My brand new 50 L 1.2 the markings were spot on. And a really old Vivtar 70-200 it holds focus fine.

So my question is. I guess the 28-70 the collimation is off. Where can I fix it in New York? Do I need to send it to Canon Lenses?

I am going for a trip for a month this Saturday. Since I might not have time to fix that lens, I was thinking to recollimate it back for the 28-70 and see if i can focus infitiny with the Tokina. If that is the case, I might have it use that way, because the wide angle lense has much more depth of field, and focus won't be as critical as with my 28-70. Interestingly the marking when I zoom on the 70mm side are spot on, but if I zoom out to the 28mm, then I have to refocus.

So I was thinking also to take for my trip the 28-70 and the Tokina 11-16, I find it a little bit too much to take also the 17-35. I haven;t done test with the tokina, but the distorsion is really good, meaning very little, so I can definitively see it as a replacement for my 17-35. After all, using the 11-16 and the 28-70 I am only missing from 17 to 28. No biggie for me.

What do you guys suggest?

Thanks a lot.

IC
 
collimate your lenses.

collimate your lenses.

It certainly looks like you need to verify collimation on your lenses.
Get them all set to nominal backfocus and it just should take the widest one to set the camera and all others will fall in.
That was the problem with the video- everyone will assume that setting camera to "a" lens will take care of their backfocus problems- nothing further from the truth....
Jacek Zakowicz, OptiTek.org:thumbsup:
 
Hello Lauri!

Do I have to "re-collimate" every time I change to another lens!?! I assume the collimation works only for the specific lens I use? I can't "save" collimation settings for different lenses, can I?
/Ulf
 
Do I have to "re-collimate" every time I change to another lens!?! I assume the collimation works only for the specific lens I use? I can't "save" collimation settings for different lenses, can I?
/Ulf

Well, the answer should be, you need to collimate the mount only once for all your lenses. However, not necessarily the backfocus of all your lenses is adjusted, and this depends on the lenses you have.

All my Canon EF L-series seem to be adjusted, and furthermore, the local maintenance have told me the lenses can be adjusted if needed.

So, my suggestion is that you check whether the same collimation setting hold for all lenses. If not, then ask a local maintenance whether the backfocus can be set. As said, at least in case of L-series lenses this does work out.
 
For anyone collimating their Birger, I suggest careful testing your collimation setting with all your lenses so you know where you stand. Some lenses may need adjustment and some zooms may just vary slightly because of their design. As Jacek says, it isn't a good idea to use one lens and then just expect the others to work perfectly. The better Canon zooms (particularly the L zooms) seem to hold focus pretty well, but they weren't necessarily designed for that and we can only expect so much.

When I collimated the mounts on our 2 cameras, i used a EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM. After collimating the mounts, I put on a 24-70mm f/2.8L USM to double check. By carefully checking with both lenses, I found that the correct setting on the collimation ring for each lens was slightly different - at least at the distance I was checking them at which was with the focal plane 20 inches away.

In practice, the amount of difference between these lenses is very small and only apparent when depth of field is razor thin with lenses wide open and the target very close. But the end result is that there was no "perfect" setting for the lenses we use the most.

In the end I decided to split the difference between these two lenses for now until I can get both lenses tested. If the target is 4 or 5 feet away, there is no issue and I am comfortable after checking footage that focus is holding if we are going from a tighter shot to a wider shot and gaining depth of field as we go toward the shorter focal length. This is particularly true if we are at a deeper stop. On the other hand, I would expect to always zoom in to 1:1 and double check focus at the exact focal length, rather than trust focus to hold while zooming when working wide open with the subject close up.

To make sure this is workable in general use, I also tested our Tokina 11-16mm and Canon 70-200 L f2.8 and with the current collimation settings I'm using on the cameras they hold focus while zooming as well. Out of curiosity, I taped out various distances with a 24mm f1.4 wide open and it generally looks like the markings are right. Again, wide open and close up I would be more inclined to zoom in to 1:1 and confirm focus by eye rather than hoping I had exactly hit the mark on the lens.

It looks like the better zooms will hold focus and the markings on the L primes are pretty good, but there may be small variations either because of the lens designs themselves or because of the backfocus of individual lenses so definitely test them all so you know what you are working with on set.

I would be interested in hearing other people's results when testing between different lenses, particularly when you are shooting close and wide open with very little depth of field.

-Walter
 
any Birgerized Redones in West LA?

any Birgerized Redones in West LA?

I would love to try to adjust back focus on one with my Optimator.
If any redusers want to swing by my office in West Los Angeles and try let me know.
Jacek Zakowicz, optitek-dot-org:thumbsup:
 
Don't expect lenses like the Tokina 11-16mm to be well collimated. They have great glass, but there are several good reasons Duclos is offering to re-house them. One is collimation.

The problem shows clearly on the new BMCC…
 
Back
Top