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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CML Camera Evaluation 2015

Kemalettin Sert said:
Thanks for the test Geoff really appreciate it.
How did you find dragon this time against alexa? Which camera had best colors? Can you share dsmc charts photos?
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You're welcome.
I try not to make comments like that, it only gets me into trouble, but let me say simply that I am totally happy to shoot Alexa or Dragon or Varicam or F65

Hmm, best colours, well, I think it has to be the 3 chip Varicam HS.
I'm not sure I understand the question about the DSC charts
 
geoffboyle said:
I screwed up on the skin zip and uploaded EXR's instead, I'm currently uploading the R3D's as a result I've added an extra link to the RAW page and you can now chose between R3D and EXR :-)
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Geoff, the EXRs for the "Dragon Skin Day" link aren't labeled "DAYLIGHT" with tape on the music stand like all the other daylight shots. Are these actually daylight shots and simply not labeled as such or are they tungsten shots that mistakenly got uploaded as daylight?
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
I would like to see the original colors of chart shot by dslr camera.Each camera shows different tones so im wondering which one close to real.
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Err, I don't see how that would help, a stills camera is just another bayer pattern sensor complete with all the inherent potential problems.

The design criteria of the chart may help, DSC had to search out new inks to get the maximum saturation and in an ideal world the top row would red RGB 255,0,0 RGB 255,255,0 RGB 0,255,0 RGB 0,255,255 RGB 0,0,255 RGB 255,0255

The second layer is 75& saturation, the third layer 50% and the last layer 25%

Thats in 8 bit values of course.
 
I'm trying to reconcile the performance (blown highlights in her skin and the 4th row down on the color chart) of the STH Dragon at +4 under daylight versus its performance under tungsten. It's not even what I expected versus the LLO Dragon performance.

If I'm reading Geoff's explanation right, they lit all of the tungsten shots for ISO 800 and opened the lens 1 stop to compensate on the cameras that were set to ISO 400.

The STH OLPF has been shown to have at least a stop more latitude in the highlights than the LLO OLPF so, if the LLO OLPF is barely clipping (you can see it if you set the gamma to Linear) at +4 under daylight at ISO 800, you'd think the STH either wouldn't clip or be very close to the LLO at +4, ISO 400...but it's clipping pretty substantially.

The Dragon Skin +3 daylight is what I would've expected the Dragon Skin +4 daylight to look like.

Is there really enough difference between daylight and tungsten at roughly the same light levels to account for that much clipping? Are my reasoning and expectations off?
 
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Geoff,

Just wanted to thank you for such an exhaustive test. It shows so much effort and while people will ALWAYS question methodology, many thanks for the time spent.

I always remember your help discussing 3D when we were prepping Amazing Spiderman with the prototype Epics.

Cheers,

Peter
 
I'll just add another Me2 Geoff, thanks to Peters above. I have a vague idea of how challenging it is to keep such a dataset consistent, and the added complexity of presenting it to others.

This is great source of reference for all of us, and if we have additional questions, we're all free to test for them.


Thanks!

Gunleik
 
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Thanks for doing this Geoff. Could you rename the RED DPXs for future generations. Only one of each (Skin/LL) actually says Skin or LL so it can be a bit tricky to keep track of what's what. I've renamed mine on my end but for the sake of future downloads it might cause less confusion.
 
What I found interesting was how much better the STH renders color and holds skin tone when over saturating. To take it to an extreme just push the saturation to 2.0 and the differences are very, very clear.

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
What I found interesting was how much better the STH renders color and holds skin tone when over saturating. To take it to an extreme just push the saturation to 2.0 and the differences are very, very clear.

Battistella
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Good to know! Need to check that out!
 
Brian Boyer said:
I'm trying to reconcile the performance (blown highlights in her skin and the 4th row down on the color chart) of the STH Dragon at +4 under daylight versus its performance under tungsten. It's not even what I expected versus the LLO Dragon performance.
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Noticed this as well and I'm very curious to hear some discussion!
 
David Battistella said:
What I found interesting was how much better the STH renders color and holds skin tone when over saturating...

Battistella
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Yes. There has been a reason why the engineers at Red designed the STH OLPF and dropped ½ stop or so. But some people want to see in the dark with their Dragon, hence the LL OLPF. I'm not sure wether Red did with the LL OLPF them self a disservice. Fortunately there are skilled people around like Geoff who know their stuff and conduct a test like this and test BOTH OPLF and not only the LL, for instance.

Never really thought of, but now never will invest into a LL OLPF.

Thanks!

Hans
 
Naw, I don't think it is a disservice, choice is never a disservice. When the whole discussion was going on RED was saying, "we believe in the STH and this is why it will ship and these are the reasons."

now, we see those reasons in this great test by Geoff. It's actually like looking at two different cameras. I have both and I am going to let the STH live in the dragon for a while after doing a bunch of tests. Really, with DEB in RCX and in resolve through the SDK, I'm very happy.

i also think choice is a good thing and there are people who will prefer the LLO for its "clean out of the box" look. I just got to used to the color reproduction on the STH.

battistella
 
And that is why having the choice is great. There are definitely situations where I'd want the LLO.
 
STH Dragon daylight at +4 - Her face is clipping
RED_1.2.1_result.jpg


LLO Dragon daylight at +4 - No lost information.
LOW_LIGHT_1.2.1_result.jpg


EDIT: It seems the difference in highlight performance seen here is actually result of different ISO/Light levels used between them and the consequences of that (STH Daylight had a stop more light being set at 400 ISO, and so clipped the sensor at +4).

So the results here are not so much showing a difference between OLPF performance.

This could be seen as a demonstration of the effect of adjusting and exposing for ISO and the effect that has on shifting the dynamic range around: You can work at higher ISO's for better highlight performance, and work at lower ISO's and add light for better shadows/noise performance.
 
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