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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cineform?

I would rather spend the money on a few cineform licenses than spending it on a MAC.... I just hope we don't have to wait 6 months for the cineform release. I can't believe Cineform has to wait for RED...it's so frustrating especially knowing that David and co already have a wroking solution that doesn't require the wait for the SDK......
 
Frustrating yes....

but look on the bright side....really

with cineform (once REDCINE is fixed) you will still have 4k online editing in PP......which blows the doors off the Final cut workflow.......you just won't have it in RAW.....but it is coming

No matter how hard the market tries to sway us.....horsepower will win over hype.

If Final Cut could do the same thing as Premiere with cineform......I would become a fan boy overnight.

And really....I'm an Avid guy.....but you can't argue the power this combo will give the film maker.
 
It seems strange that there is a road block stopping the revolution from going ahead and yet the only person who can unblock it is the revolutionary leader himself. There's obviously missing information. It just doesn't add up. Have to let time tell its own story... I don't know David but by all impressions so far he seems like one of the kind of business partners you would want. He is obviously a genius in his field, has a product light years ahead of anyone else, and in terms of business ethics, communication etc... he is so close to red compared to some other companies the frequent this board, it just makes the mind boggle as to why he's not getting the support.
One gets the feeling that red is developing their own product in competition, considering the silence on the subject. Considering there are three major products that have to be developed in the next 9 or so months, surely, it's sensible to go third party on this? If it was Jim's plan to really go the software route from the beginning as a part of the whole plan and it's something he wants to stick to then surely some transparency would alleviate the situation and not lead people on who really don't deserve it. I really feel that if David and Graehme got together then what they would be capable of would be something magical. I'm sure a situation could be sought where everyone profited the least of all the people who have supported the dream. These are just random thoughts but i suppose that's what the mind does when information doesn't flow. I hope we get some feedback on this issue in the near future.
 
hang OUT guys...4k cineform is coming...and lets just say....well, I guess I can't really say yet but I know things.....you wish you knew...:) well...I wish I knew them too but I "Think" I am in the "Loop" anyway, um...er.....I can't really say what I know I guess is the bottom line....

:)

I can say I am REALLY stoked about a little update coming my way in terms of 4k editing on PC... :)


BTW used both, I think FCP blows. Premiere has way better tools and most are now high bit depth too!

kinda feels like Apple does not sell enough FCP seats to stay 100% on top of things sometimes....
 
We're still trying to determine on buying a MAC or PC, so will this be as effective on premier on an intel mac as it will be on a pc?
 
Gopher77 said:
We're still trying to determine on buying a MAC or PC, so will this be as effective on premier on an intel mac as it will be on a pc?
Click to expand...

Buy one of each, you won't be able to back to anything else after you tried the super combo... Life without a pc is sad and when you need to feel special, you can go on the mac. The mac is also good for surfing as lack of virus's is good. It's also solid as a plug and play unit with little troubles (don't tell anyone i said this but they actually do have troubles). But PC is a swiss army knife on steroids. The modularity (where have i heard that word before?) is mind boggling and you don't feel like you belong to some kind of cult. You can upgrade as soon as technology becomes available and competition is fierce so prices are good (mac is finally catching up here) But get one of each and the next time you're at a party you won't get shouted down by someone just because you own a computer or have to listen to hours of technical drone of why product a is better than product b. Why not add a linux and go supersized?
 
supernovafilms said:
It seems strange that there is a road block stopping the revolution from going ahead and yet the only person who can unblock it is the revolutionary leader himself. There's obviously missing information.
Click to expand...

Yes...but I think only you are missing it...? Build 16 is a complete revamp of the codec from the ground up. This has been stated many times as the reason for the SDK not being released until after 16 is proven - all of Cineform's currently functioning (and oh-so-sexy) work will need to be re-done (doubtless much easier the second time around) once the new Redcode hits the streets.

You may be talking about the rumored postponement - hasn't been confirmed here by Red, so either they're hiding it or it's untrue. Let's hope for the latter. A denial would be nice :ph34r:


supernovafilms said:
One gets the feeling that red is developing their own product in competition, considering the silence on the subject. Considering there are three major products that have to be developed in the next 9 or so months, surely, it's sensible to go third party on this? If it was Jim's plan to really go the software route from the beginning as a part of the whole plan and it's something he wants to stick to then surely some transparency would alleviate the situation and not lead people on who really don't deserve it. I really feel that if David and Graehme got together then what they would be capable of would be something magical. I'm sure a situation could be sought where everyone profited the least of all the people who have supported the dream. These are just random thoughts but i suppose that's what the mind does when information doesn't flow. I hope we get some feedback on this issue in the near future.
Click to expand...

I think this is pulling a bit of a long bow. But I can't really prove you wrong, so I guess what you're saying about information flow is the key to getting this resolved.

Would definitely like to see Red and Cineform get into bed.
 
We've decided on a PC as our main platform and a MAC in suite 2. I was just wondering what type of video outputs do I need to configure in the PC to run dual editing monitors a JVC DT-V24 monitor to color grade and a 50" plasma client monitor? Boxx is building the system, and those guys are great to work with. Right now it is configured with a NVidia 8800 GT. But I think I need additional cards to drive the color correction monitor and the client Plasma. Any recommendations or warnings?

Thanks!
G
 
Ed Blythe said:
Yes...but I think only you are missing it...? Build 16 is a complete revamp of the codec from the ground up. This has been stated many times as the reason for the SDK not being released until after 16 is proven - all of Cineform's currently functioning (and oh-so-sexy) work will need to be re-done (doubtless much easier the second time around) once the new Redcode hits the streets.

You may be talking about the rumored postponement - hasn't been confirmed here by Red, so either they're hiding it or it's untrue. Let's hope for the latter. A denial would be nice :ph34r:




I think this is pulling a bit of a long bow. But I can't really prove you wrong, so I guess what you're saying about information flow is the key to getting this resolved.

Would definitely like to see Red and Cineform get into bed.
Click to expand...

Yes agree with you on all points. I really don't know what i am talking about. I though that the sdk was due for release in march but yea i am speculating. I am normally wrong ;)

In any case Jim stated in his latest post adobe support is coming.

It's probably just a communication thing or lack therof. Trying to organise everything for production is so difficult at the moment... So many unknowns and so much silence... Not how it was in the begining. So much changing etc...

Just feels like a few simple words would help their marketing out a bit, make people feel a bit more secure. I don't think it could hurt. But in saying that, i'm still going ahead with my order no matter what.
 
supernovafilms said:
Yes agree with you on all points. I really don't know what i am talking about. I though that the sdk was due for release in march but yea i am speculating. I am normally wrong ;)
Click to expand...
open redcode definition and sdk were announced for april 2008.

In the early reservation stage it wasnt announced that all postproduction systems and manufacturers would be locked out of redcode centric workflows except one editor on osx and one di/daily system on windows.
That information became officially published later in ~okt 2007 and caused much concern for several users and customers of red.

supernovafilms said:
In any case Jim stated in his latest post adobe support is coming.
It's probably just a communication thing or lack therof. Trying to organise everything for production is so difficult at the moment... So many unknowns and so much silence... Not how it was in the begining. So much changing etc...
Just feels like a few simple words would help their marketing out a bit, make people feel a bit more secure. I don't think it could hurt. But in saying that, i'm still going ahead with my order no matter what.
Click to expand...
More and more precise information about red compability with postproduction systems and manufacturers would be very welcome, especially after the "orginally non-official" lockout of any postproduction system for redcode-native there is some scepticism. I surely hope the best for the release of open redcode with the R16-SDK which is in alpha now.
 
Ed Blythe said:
Would definitely like to see Red and Cineform get into bed.
Click to expand...

cineform is the perfect expansion for red, as it solves most issues at once:

- redcode->cineform is crossplatform (OSX and windows)
- non-proxy realtime editing (FCP and Adobe)
- The excellent .look LUT colorcorrection in any quicktime application, which can be generated while shooting with
- speedgrade on set
- Allows full-quality use of red images in most of the so far locked out softwares, as combustion, fusion, nuke etc
 
David Newman said:
Yes. We will not be charging current Prospect 4K customers for the up-coming RAW conversion utilities once they can be made available. We have said that anyone who purchases before the end of May will be in that category, although that may be extended if the SDK still seems a long way off.
Click to expand...

David, does that include the Prospect 2K customers as well? I see there are several conversion utilities on your webpage that are downloadable without purchase (providing that I already have the codec). Would the raw conversion utility only be available for those who purchase prospect?
 
Brian Harbauer said:
David, does that include the Prospect 2K customers as well? I see there are several conversion utilities on your webpage that are downloadable without purchase (providing that I already have the codec). Would the raw conversion utility only be available for those who purchase prospect?
Click to expand...

In the near future we will be separating the conversion utility from Raw camera sources into CineForm RAW, whether those sources are Red, Dalsa, Vision Research, Arri, etc. Currently that capability is provided at no additional charge for Prospect 2K/ or Prospect 4K/Neo 4K customers. This is what David Newman was referring to. As is well known we are not supplying our converter for Red yet, but hopefully we're getting closer.

All who have a license for Prospect 4K/Neo 4K at the time we separate the converter will get the converter at no additional charge. After the separation there will be separate purchases for the converter and for Prospect 4K/Neo 4K. We'll offer advance visibility here about when that changeover will happen so forum participants can take advantage of it.

In general we haven't made any noise about this on our site because of the uncertain time when we'll support Red, and we try not to be too commercial on the forums. We mentioned it at NAB to many people, and we'll post about it on our site when the timeframe for supporting Red becomes more clear.
 
Do you expect the Red SDK will let you extract the Red raw CFA, so you can transcode to cineform RAW, like the S.Imaging workflow, or will it be transcoded into a 4:4:4 format ?
 
As Red has indicated Build 16 changes a lot of things, including requiring new releases of RedAlert and RedCine. That means things will change for CineForm's conversion utilities too, but in a manner we're not yet privvy to.

With previous builds we've been able to convert the Raw data directly (although we haven't shipped the tool), but we haven't supported the increasing amount of metadata being added to the files. Hopefully we will continue to be able to convert the Raw files directly (to CineForm RAW), but we will also begin to use the SDK for better access to metadata.
 
David thanks for the quick reply.

Just to be clear, will the raw converter only come with Prospect 4K/Neo 4K? Or will it come with Prospect 2K as well? I ask because I only have a need for 2K, however I would need the raw converter.

Thanks again
 
Brian, the Raw converter - until we separate it out - comes with Prospect 2K, Prospect 4K, and Neo 4K.

But a technical word is in order. A Raw converter must keep the spatial resolution of the source file. So 2K Raw in --> 2K CineForm RAW out. 4K Raw in --> 4K CineForm RAW out.

If you want to change spatial resolution, such as 4K Raw in and you want 2K out, then you must "develop" the image including demosaic. The CineForm RAW converter does this BTW - so you can take 4K Raw in and generate 2K CineForm 444 (or 422) out by performing a demosaic and spatial resample as part of the conversion.
 
Ah! Thanks for the clarification David, I didn't realize that. I just thought via the dynamic sampling less pixels would be sampled or sampled differently for 2K. But that makes complete sense - thank you for explaining.

Again thank you for the quick response and your time.
 
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