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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cineform?

David may I ask what application it's possible to try right now on Mac from Cineform?

I saw your interview on Fresh DV about Cineform and Mac and i have to say that was quite amazing,
I have downloaded Neo Player for Mac ,and it allow me to play Cineform RAW File (downloaded from Silicon Imaging website), but i can't find how i can change the .look file using quicktime as you did in the interview...and If i try to download Neo 4K it's only for PC (.exe)

\So what you suggest me to try the potentiality of yours product right now on Mac?

I think that your Idea to keep all the clip in Online (After the Cineform RAW conversion off course) having the ebility to play it in 4k , having the possibility apply LUT in Realtime under any application (like FinalCut or Quickime) in a non-destructive way it's really amazing and helpful


I think could be great add support to RED Codec Soon...

What about Apple Colo and Cineform?


Thanks


Gabriele
 
So what - again - is the current potential workflow?

So what - again - is the current potential workflow?

I apologize for not being in on this point earlier, as I am sure it has been discussed, but say you shoot RED footage in 4K and want to convert your footage for use in a Win/PPro Cineform project (4K or 2K) today....what is the current procedure?

Thanks
 
Gabriele,

Our Mac demo at NAB was with an unreleased version of our Mac workflow. There are a number of feature and performance upgrades that will be part of our next Mac release, some of which you saw at NAB - or on the Fresh DV interview.

It seems all our Mac releases take longer than we intend. That said, I'm hopeful that we'll have the next release in the next 2-3 weeks that will allow you to experiment with the Mac workflow from NAB.
 
Litzwire said:
I apologize for not being in on this point earlier, as I am sure it has been discussed, but say you shoot RED footage in 4K and want to convert your footage for use in a Win/PPro Cineform project (4K or 2K) today....what is the current procedure?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Litzwire, today there is not an easy way to use a CineForm workflow deriving from Red footage. RedCine has a bug in its deep-precision QuickTime export which means you can't export to CineForm 422 or CineForm 444 using this path yet. A CineForm RAW path still remains in front us as we wait for the Red SDK. Hopefully this will change in the not too distant future....
 
Wow. That's rough if you're looking to use Cineform in the near future. What about exporting to some other codec then transcoding that to a form that Cineform/PPro can use? Even though it would be a pain, couldn't one output from RedCine to Targa and then transcode that to Cineform? (I feel like Roy Batty asking Eldon Tyrell in Blade Runner how he can get more extension on his life....except without the eventual consequence). Update: someone just hipped me to some footage from RedLab that was labeled with the following workflow: REDCODE RAW > CAMERA RGB > GAMMA REC 709 > CINEFORM 1080HD. Any comments on that?
 
Litzwire said:
What about exporting to some other codec then transcoding that to a form that Cineform/PPro can use? Update: someone just hipped me to some footage from RedLab that was labeled with the following workflow: REDCODE RAW > CAMERA RGB > GAMMA REC 709 > CINEFORM 1080HD. Any comments on that?
Click to expand...

Litzwire, in the short term you're right. You can always go through an intermediate file format supported by RedCine (such as you illustrated), and then convert that into CineForm files. But remember when you go out of RedCine you're also developing to either YUV or RGB (it's no longer Raw). There is nothing wrong with doing that conversion - I mention it as a point of clarification.

If you have to develop first, generally our recommendation would be to go through an RGB format (TIFF / DPX) and then into 12-bit CineForm 444 - either HD or 2K. This will maintain maximum quality through the remainder of your post workflow.

The workflow as described is doable, but certainly a pain. Hopefully it won't be too long before we have something more elegant.
 
Looking for to it, of course. Until then I will go DPX > Cineform as you suggest. To be honest, I don't even have Cineform system right now; I have a Matrox Axio. But my plan is to continue to use the Axio for the TV shows I do and build a Cineform system strictly for RED work. Perhaps I'll have the two systems working together somehow....hey, did I just invent something? Two separate computer systems working together? :P By the way, is the output hardware suggested for Cineform still AJA Xena?
 
Litzwire said:
By the way, is the output hardware suggested for Cineform still AJA Xena?
Click to expand...

Yes, AJA Xena LHe is the recommended HD-SDI hardware today.

BTW, our DPX conversion software (either direction) is included with installations of all CineForm products. Look in the CineForm --> Tools folder under Start Menu.
 
David what does Xena do for Cineform?

-Playback Output trough the SDI i guess...resolution?2K?
-Capture in realtime in Cineform RAW?
-What more?

Are you planning to do the same with Kona?

PS:Onestly how much time you think you need o have the same features that cineform have on windows but on Mac?like 3 months ...more ?


Thanks

G
 
Gabrielle, Xena is used for timeline monitoring with a known 709 color space. The way we do this is to scale 4K to 2K, then perform a center crop of HD resolution (1920x1080) out of the 2K window. This retains about 88% of the 2K window.

If you have HD material to acquire you can do this too, but you cannot capture RAW as RAW material is usually file based.

We will support Kona on Mac in the not-too-distant future.

We cannot offer identical features in FCP as in PPro as there is no SDK available for FCP such as Adobe offers for PPro.
 
David,i have to say that your company is surprising me (in a good way)your approach to apply metadata on the fly it's pretty amazing,and i appreciate the fact that you constantly upgrade the website etc...
But I am on Mac so i can't really deep undertsand right now all the possibilities that you product offer,

so

I have a couple of question more...

Does the Metadata stuff" application on the fly" works only with Cineform Raw or with all Cineform Intermediate codec?

Can we transcode any kind of file or codec to cineform Raw ?or just a Bayer data Only?

What's the main differences (in terms of feature in the workflow) between working with Cineform Raw file instead of the others Cineform Intermediate Files?Or it's just question of bayer versus debayer data?

I don't understand the differences between NEO 4K and Prospect 4K...


Thanks!


G
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
Does the Metadata stuff" application on the fly" works only with Cineform Raw or with all Cineform Intermediate codec?

Can we transcode any kind of file or codec to cineform Raw ?or just a Bayer data Only?

What's the main differences (in terms of feature in the workflow) between working with Cineform Raw file instead of the others Cineform Intermediate Files?Or it's just question of bayer versus debayer data?

I don't understand the differences between NEO 4K and Prospect 4K...

G
Click to expand...

I'll attempt to answer some of your questions.. I stand corrected though..

1) The Metadata and SetActiveMetadata only work for C-RAW.
2) You cannot transcode to RAW, you only convert RAW data from any source be it Red, Dalsa, or SI-2K to Cineform RAW.
3) Cineforms RAW workflow saves the debayer process till the end of your workflow when you export.

There are many differences between working with RAW and just CF-AVI's.
For example with C-RAW you can actively apply a LUT and white balance data on top of the RAW file non-destructively.

Read this: http://www.cineform.com/technology/CineForm_RAW.htm & this http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/SetActiveMetadata-Win.htm & this http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/3DLUTGeneration.htm

4) NEO 4K is for a mac workflow offering encoding to CF AVI's up to 4K resolution and 12 bit precision no enhanced realtime playback.

Prospect 4K is for pc workflow but offers an enhanced realtime playback engine for Premiere Pro.
 
Thanks Chris. Also, I have one piece of new data, and one comment.

Comment: One way to think of the differences between our Prospect and Neo families is that Prospect includes our real-time engine for PPro on Windows. Neo does not. So if you're using PPro (Windows) you want Prospect. If not, you want Neo.

New Info: We will be adding active metadata features to CineForm 444 in the near future. This will allow you to render C-RAW into C444 without having to flatten color information during render. Active metadata will remain as active metadata. There are many times when you need to render out of C-RAW, such as when applying effects, but many times you'd prefer to maintain color information as metadata to better preserve highlights for latter portions of the workflow.
 
David Taylor said:
Gabriele,

Our Mac demo at NAB was with an unreleased version of our Mac workflow. There are a number of feature and performance upgrades that will be part of our next Mac release, some of which you saw at NAB - or on the Fresh DV interview.

It seems all our Mac releases take longer than we intend. That said, I'm hopeful that we'll have the next release in the next 2-3 weeks that will allow you to experiment with the Mac workflow from NAB.
Click to expand...



Hi David,

news about it?

Thanks!

G
 
Gabriele,

Your question was timed perfectly. We will have a public beta for the next release of our Mac codec posted in about three hours or less. Check our website then - we'll have news posted on our home page.

This release will have more performance plus the initial release of "SetActiveMetadata" on Mac that we demonstrated at NAB.

We will have numerous Mac releases over the coming couple of months that further improve Mac performance and add features.

Comments requested....
 
Hi david i have downloaded the new Cineform Mac Codec Trial,

now i can see the new set metadata tab ....but actually it didnt work ....

First i have tried using a cineform RAW clip downloaded from the Silicon imaging website : "the spider experiment" ,

using that clip the only control that was working in the set metadata panel was enable/disble metadata ...all the others control like "apply a different look" or change white balance or change color matrix doesn't work...

maybe that clip is not a Cineform RAW clip? In quicktime in the movie inspector tab it say "CineForm HD/2K/4K, 1024 x 540 "


Also, how i can encode the RED RAW .R3D into cineform RAW ?
I have tried using the last REDCine but the images comes out corrupted (no image and all gray with black stripes actually...),
Maybe there is specific setting to use , like color space etc...?


Thanks


G
 
Obin, the question is not when will Cineform support RED.. The question is when will the SDK be available.

When that happens, Cineform will be right behind it. The support, and software already exists. They just want to move when they are supposed too.

Jay
 
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