Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm NEO 4K Beta, RedCine compatible, and available for trial.

David Newman said:
Vegas will use the Video for Codec at 444 (good) up to 2K (which is OK), in 8-bit (not so good.) We intend to support the 32-bit modes within Vegas, it just takes time, and we some many projects.
Click to expand...

Any time frame on when you expect to get full implementation within Vegas? I don't get my camera until April. Would sure love to have the editing platform worked out by then.

ETA: I see David Taylor is responding to similar questions in the Vegas thread, so perhaps we should consolidate further discussion there.
 
Hi Davids,

my question is: Is RAW (Redcode or Cineform) to given colorspace development lossy operation in terms of latitude in any color? (I don't mean any compression artifacts and so here.)
 
dalife said:
Hi Davids,

my question is: Is RAW (Redcode or Cineform) to given colorspace development lossy operation in terms of latitude in any color? (I don't mean any compression artifacts and so here.)
Click to expand...

Not inherently, no. If you development the image with increased saturation, corrected white balance, brightness and contrast, then those operations can truncate adjust the upper and lower bounds of the target color gamut. Using PDLog or Cineon Log protects against such clipping. It is a mistake to develop your look so the image looks nice on your display and then output from RedCine with the same curve, if you intend to enhance the color in down-stream tools. Get your approxiate look, then output with a log preserving curve, that you can reverse as needed in post.
 
Thanks David, I'm just not sure I understand what is Log Preserving Curve.

Maybe just a link helps ...?
 
dalife said:
Thanks David, I'm just not sure I understand what is Log Preserving Curve.

Maybe just a link helps ...?
Click to expand...

PDLog will do the trick. I'm not sure what REDLog does, so I can't recommend it yet. PDLog typically sets white at 685 out of 1023 (for 10-bit), leaving plenty of code words remaining for whites greater than white. This way you can saturate and white balance without clipping highlights for downstream processing.
 
revolutionary dream

revolutionary dream

Jannard said:
It would be a bit misleading to imply that Cineform will be able to open REDCODE RAW without a transcode. RED has agreements in place, at least for a certain time period, that would prohibit this type of native support.

The long term plan is to have REDCODE support, and be supported by, as many companies as possible. But I would be careful about making a purchase based on a loose inference of full support with no time period stated.

Jim
Click to expand...
It's a shame that cineform is out of any agreements as it is probably the closet to acheiving a good 4k workflow at present and matches the ideal of small companies with intelligent ideas that have seen RED grab such a foothold in camera technology business. I hope this is sorted out because to me CineForm and RED are a partnership made in heaven. But in business people have to make agreements and sometimes those agreements have to be protected. Such a shame.
 
David Newman said:
We have only tested with the two clips upload, as we sadly don't have a access to Red cameras. So I look forward to others with footage to help us refine our products.
Click to expand...

David,

My camera (137) is now only weeks away. My offer still stands to shoot footage for Cineform to use for R&D.

My email is thor2loki@comcast.net.

-Thor
 
This has been a very interesting read to go through this thread. Certainly output ONCE from Redcine into a format (cineform) for both online and offline is very nice. However on the FCP side 4K editing is not supported (as far as I know) so you'd still have to generate a 2K cineform file to edit with FCP and then re-conform to 4K and finish on some other system.

Also, I believe the reason the BIG RED MAN jumped in on this is specifically because of the Red/Apple partnership with FCP. On the Mac side with FCP the plan is to ultimately have all of what Redcine does built into FCP itself for native Redcode editing and native Redcine-equivalent 1st color correction options. Meaning the final endgame for FCP users would be to shoot Redcode and then simply open FCP. You can edit, do all of your Redcine operations, and then when you're done you export to whatever final formats you need. The rumors I've always heard is that Color will eventually open up to 4K rendering support so you can then finish there. With this workflow you will never transcode until you're done and you export your final movie. Granted this is all made possible because Redcode can run off 2K, 1K, & 720P proxies which allows FCP to handle the editing and allows Color to still work in real-time using the proxies. The big advantage in this workflow is obvious - never have to bake-in to an editing format AND also allows you to do your 1st color-correction with the Redcine tools inside FCP AFTER you've put together your edit.

If I'm dreaming all of this up - please someone correct me:love:
 
I'm beginning to become more interested in the Cineform workflow for the Mac to now. Keeping files in 4K in a 1080P FCP timeline with 444 color would be ideal for me. Can FCP handle that, or is Premiere the only solution for that now?
 
JoshBertrand said:
I'm beginning to become more interested in the Cineform workflow for the Mac to now. Keeping files in 4K in a 1080P FCP timeline with 444 color would be ideal for me. Can FCP handle that, or is Premiere the only solution for that now?
Click to expand...

How is this different from what REDCODE is doing now? You're loading 4K footage into whatever timeline you want.

FCP can currently only handle 2K footage, so there's no way to really load actual 4K footage (or render that out). Hopefully that will change....
 
i thought the difference is that the redcode ref qt files will not render out of fcp as good quality, because its from the ref qt file, which i've read somewhere by a red person that there maybe some aliasing etc, but that may change in the future, so the difference being, u could finish in fcp with the cineform, where as with the redcode files you have to render them from redcine for the final conform to prores or which ever codec before making a final render out of fcp? Or go to scratch for the final conform and render?

Is this true, or is the redcode qt ref files rendering straight out of fcp at a perfect quality render, good enough for 2k master? If not then I see the cineform being quite useful if one doesnt want to do a conform in scratch or what not after they've finished editing.
 
Rob Lohman said:
FCP can currently only handle 2K footage, so there's no way to really load actual 4K footage (or render that out). Hopefully that will change....
Click to expand...

I hate to read anything in to that, but I am:ph34r:

With native Redcode support in FCP, 4K rendering and export in FCP, Color, Motion, etc, & a Redcine plug-in for FCP and I don't know how a Red owner wouldn't be getting an Mac Pro and buying Final Cut Studio. This is a super workflow. Remember PC people the Mac Pro can also run XP natively. So partition your hard drive and you can have a Mac and a PC all on the same machine:innocent:
 
As far as running xp on a mac, I thought that you need boot camp or somethign to run it on a mac, so it's running emulator style, not as solid as a straight install, or have things changed in the last month or so?

stricko
 
Nathan, it is as Rob said - you get 2K out of FCP, not 4K. Hopefully this will change.

If you use ProRes for your FCP export you get 2K YUV. If you use CineForm 444 you get 2K 444. 2K 444 will be an appropriate export resolution for the majority of projects, so there is a viable finishing workflow using FCP. But currently without CineForm 444 you would normally go out through ProRes, and I would hate to see you do this as the delivery resolution is only marginally larger than HD.

Otherwise FCP is your proxy edit station with a 2K/4K finish elsewhere, such as with Scratch.
 
stricko108 said:
As far as running xp on a mac, I thought that you need boot camp or somethign to run it on a mac, so it's running emulator style, not as solid as a straight install, or have things changed in the last month or so?

stricko
Click to expand...

Bootcamp allows you to boot into a straight install of XP or Vista. It's not running in emulation. Lucas from Assimilate talked about running Scratch successfully in XP on a Mac Pro using Bootcamp.
 
kenn michael said:
Bootcamp allows you to boot into a straight install of XP or Vista. It's not running in emulation. Lucas from Assimilate talked about running Scratch successfully in XP on a Mac Pro using Bootcamp.
Click to expand...

cool, that's good to know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top