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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm NEO 4K Beta, RedCine compatible, and available for trial.

Yes, there is currently a RedCine bug with 16-bit QT codecs, well at least when using ours. We found that RedCine would work for CineForm if we only support one 8-bit pixel format, but that defeats the purpose of using CineForm compression. We have given Rob Lohman debug CineForm components to help determine the issue.
 
ok thanks David,
we plan on buying some prospect 4k license(s) once it's working. We also have a few hardware question but I will email cineform directly for that.

thanks for your support1
 
David,

Should I be able to export from REDCINE to Cineform mov-files in a PC? Do I need Quicktime Pro for that? I'm pretty sure I as able to export files with the previous REDCINE version, but no longer.The standard instructions of uninstalling etc does not help.

I'm trying to export 2K (not 2K, 2:1) files created with my RED. The system yields an error message in exporting the first frame.
 
Lauri,

it appears there is a bug with the latest version of Redcine exporting to Cineform. David and co are looking into it. (it has to do with 8 and 16bit exports)
 
David Newman said:
Yes, there is currently a RedCine bug with 16-bit QT codecs, well at least when using ours. We found that RedCine would work for CineForm if we only support one 8-bit pixel format, but that defeats the purpose of using CineForm compression. We have given Rob Lohman debug CineForm components to help determine the issue.
Click to expand...

I thought we were going to wait until our development was done? We are rebuilding REDCODE from scratch as we have said before. And we are not going to spend time de-bugging anything until we are done. Then we will release the SDK. I thought that was pretty clear?

Jim
 
lol....Jim it was pretty clear....but some of us never give up....we want evertyhing NOW....like little impatient kids....:bleh:

ok..ok...we'll wait for the SDK.......:blush:
 
My mistake on this one... ignore my post. Sorry.

Jim
 
David, we are getting "failed to write frame 0" no matter what (size, computer, process, kyframes...).
ANy way to avoid this at present time?

Also, how can you differenciate if the qt export was done at 8bits or 16bits (i mean, how am i sure the information stored in the qt file comes at 16bits into the codec compressor and does not enter at 8bits ending at 16bits?)
 
Hi Macgregor,

Good to met you at NAB, and that 4K playback 16x9 issue was fixed that same night.

The RedCine "failed to write frame 0" is the CineForm Catch-22 -- we can't ship what works today, and what ships today doesn't work for CineForm yet. We don't think RedCine has ever correctly worked with 16-bit codecs, if we offer 8-bit first it seems to work, but we are not interested in offering an 8-bit solution. We don't think it is our bug and as we are never given a frame to compress, but I have given Rob Lohman a debug component and we are happy to change anything if needed. In the meantime DPX exports from RedCine is the only quality way to data into CineForm files.
 
What would be the main steps in geting DPX to Cineform? Is it just a matter of exporting DPX sequences from RedCine and then using a Cineform product to convert those files to Cineform HD? I wonder if there's an advantage to that step when importing to Avid, rather than just importing the DPX directly to Avid and allowing for Avid to transcode it to DNxHD?
 
Sean said:
What would be the main steps in geting DPX to Cineform? Is it just a matter of exporting DPX sequences from RedCine and then using a Cineform product to convert those files to Cineform HD? I wonder if there's an advantage to that step when importing to Avid, rather than just importing the DPX directly to Avid and allowing for Avid to transcode it to DNxHD?
Click to expand...

The CineForm tools provide a DPX to CineForm conversion utility, however that is not likely the best workflow for Avids which have to convert CineForm files to DNxHD anyway.
 
...you appear to already have a working product...I am not sure I understand why RED is even asking you to wait for the SDK...I mean you obviously don;t need it for cineform products to work properly. I can't wait for your product(s) to come out David, The NAB demo was very impressive and made us realize how behind Redcine is......Right now Redcine is a piece of junk.... I said it before...Love the Camera, HATE the software....(ok now that I vented my frustration I feel better...) ;-)
 
David Newman said:
The CineForm tools provide a DPX to CineForm conversion utility, however that is not likely the best workflow for Avids which have to convert CineForm files to DNxHD anyway.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. Thank you for confirming that!

3xm said:
...you appear to already have a working product...I am not sure I understand why RED is even asking you to wait for the SDK...I mean you obviously don;t need it for cineform products to work properly. I can't wait for your product(s) to come out David, The NAB demo was very impressive and made us realize how behind Redcine is......Right now Redcine is a piece of junk.... I said it before...Love the Camera, HATE the software....(ok now that I vented my frustration I feel better...) ;-)
Click to expand...

You're not alone in your frustation, obviously. But from other posts, including a couple from Jim Jannard, it sounds like RedCine will be re-released with the new Build 16 factored in. But it's all sort of reading between the lines a bit. I'm a bit confused.
 
David Newman said:
The RedCine "failed to write frame 0" is the CineForm Catch-22 -- we can't ship what works today, and what ships today doesn't work for CineForm yet. We don't think RedCine has ever correctly worked with 16-bit codecs, if we offer 8-bit first it seems to work, but we are not interested in offering an 8-bit solution. We don't think it is our bug and as we are never given a frame to compress, but I have given Rob Lohman a debug component and we are happy to change anything if needed. In the meantime DPX exports from RedCine is the only quality way to data into CineForm files.
Click to expand...

David,

Just getting my head around what is achievable with Cineform.
Neo 4k lists on your page that it is possible to output from RedCine to Cineform 444:

Support for exporting from RedCine to CineForm MOV files

Is that not correct? You still have to go to DPX and then to Cineform?

What will the future workflow be? Will it bypass RedCine altogether?
r3d>Cineform with Active Metadata control?
 
Rocketeer, in the first RedCine release it was possible to export 8-bit CineForm MOV files, but never 10/12-bit CineForm files. With updates both Red and CineForm have made, no exports currently work properly. Red has all the information they need from us to update the QT components on their end. But I suspect their future updates are waiting for Build 16 which requires a new build of RedCine anyway. I have updated our website to reflect this.

It is our intention to not need RedCine after the Red SDK is released.
 
today i finally did some 2k proxy in FCP and exported out to 2k cineform ...
i then did same clips exported to ProRes HQ ... the cineform had just slightly more detail in blacks ... other then that -so close i can't call it .. do prefer the shadow detail ..

took the cineform clips to a PC and dropped them in Vegas (used 24p 1080 template and customed it to 2k ) ... viewing on a Dell 24" monitor they looked excellent ... tried some 30-40% move in and still excellent ...

on a year old 24" iMac ( dual core) it's borrowed, so don't know much about it... using same clip in FCP
2k proxy's to 2k ProResHQ approx 6 min
2k proxy to 2k cineform approx 17 min
4k R3D in Redcine and render out to 2k cineform = when it said 23hrs i cancelled ...
 
donatello said:
on a year old 24" iMac ( dual core) it's borrowed, so don't know much about it... using same clip in FCP
2k proxy's to 2k ProResHQ approx 6 min
2k proxy to 2k cineform approx 17 min
4k R3D in Redcine and render out to 2k cineform = when it said 23hrs i cancelled ...
Click to expand...
There seems to be a bug in your system: cineform transcodes rather at ~10 frames per second, much faster than redcine.
 
"There seems to be a bug in your system: cineform transcodes rather at ~10 frames per second, much faster than redcine."

could be a bug ... using older redcine build 72 because newer versions don't work on the mac here ...
i think the 10 frames per second is on 8 core systems ...

bottom line is Red to Cineform looks excellent !!!
 
donatello said:
"There seems to be a bug in your system: cineform transcodes rather at ~10 frames per second, much faster than redcine."

could be a bug ... using older redcine build 72 because newer versions don't work on the mac here ...
i think the 10 frames per second is on 8 core systems ...

bottom line is Red to Cineform looks excellent !!!
Click to expand...

Nice meeting you at the Reduser Party, what you're saying sounds very good. Did that 2K file play in realtime in Vegas. Was it 8 bit or 10?

Vladimir
 
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