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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm NEO 4K Beta, RedCine compatible, and available for trial.

David very good what CineForm is doing for Mac.

Playback of QT 2K file output from REDCINE in CineForm HD/2K codec
for Mac is a bit slower than output from REDCINE in 2K Apple ProRes HQ 422.
But I'm sure the thing could change soon.

redmag_cf2K422.jpg

Info from QT Inspector for Cineform 2K 422 QT output

redmag_2Kproreshq422.jpg

Info from QT Inspector for Apple ProRes 2K HQ 422 QT output

Mac Pro test computer hardware specification >>>
 
"I assume Neo 4k will be free since its made for Redcine"

no, not free .... only free to try out for X amount of time ...
cineform reader is free - reads cineform files on your computer ... but if you want to encode ( render out) then you will need to buy ...
 
David Newman said:
Thank you, at moment I'm looking for additional 4K and 2K footage, and as many users to help Red and CineForm work out the kinks in the QuickTime export from RedCine. Are you shooting this weekend in SD?
Click to expand...

I'm shooting this weekend. Currently in LA, but can head down there. Give me a call

Vladimir
213/804-6184
 
MikeHedge said:
If I can throw all the R3d clips in a timeline using Cineform 2k, sync sound somehow, do some editing, and do a EDL/XML to a Neo 4k that would be awesome.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on your project but I would say this is even better:
Upgrade your Prospect 2K to Prospect 4K (TBA) and work in 4K throughout and output to all "lesser" formats from that master. Then you only transcode once. I'm pretty sure the reason for using NEO now is just a "beta solution".

Your statement of throwing R3D-clips in the timeline isn't quite right either. You have to transcode to Cineform 12-bit RGB 4:4:4 before editing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong! :)
 
McCarthyTech said:
Also, does the lack of a 4K varient of Prospect mean that the 4K resolution is not supported by the CineformRT engine in Premiere. If so, are we supposed to use desktop mode with Cineform as the render codec?

EDITED: It displays the 4K clip in my Prospect2K project, and the image appears, but playback leaves much to be desired.

I tried using AE, but the 4K (4088) file did not work. It only displayed as a white screen. The 2K version worked fine. The 4K fine plays in Qucktime, and by "plays" I mean there is image data. What machine specs will we need to get realtime playback of Cineform4K files? (Presumably at 2K display)
Click to expand...

We haven't completed 4K support in Premiere yet, so there will be issue for a few more weeks. Things will work better in Premiere today if you turn off the 32-bit float mode. Also re-wrapping MOV to AVI will work better in Premiere today. We need to get the 4096 fixed as your timeline is likely to be 2048, which as nicely accelerated, whereas 4088 decoded as 2044, will then need to be scaled to 2048 for playback (not efficient.) 4096 expoorts will solve this.

White screen in AE, sounds like your need a Quicktime upgrade. AE works fine with the 4K images, this what we did all our testing with. Unfortunately the Quicktime player will not do wavelet sub-res decode requests, so 4K playback will be slow. AE does handle sub-res decodes.
 
McCarthyTech said:
It seems to be working for me, but I am curious to see file size and playback performance once it finishes converting at 4088x2048. Is the RedCine to Cineform process multithreaded? I am only getting 50% CPU usage on my dual socket workstation, but Hyperthreading might be skewing that. (Time for an 8 core system)
Click to expand...

RedCine is threading well on dual cores. The Quicktime components are not yet are thoroughly threaded as our DShow components, yet the encode time is still a faction of the RedCine development time. New Quicktime threading is coming to both platforms.
 
The Third Man said:
David very good what CineForm is doing for Mac.

Playback of QT 2K file output from REDCINE in CineForm HD/2K codec
for Mac is a bit slower than output from REDCINE in 2K Apple ProRes HQ 422.
But I'm sure the thing could change soon.

redmag_cf2K422.jpg

Info from QT Inspector for Cineform 2K 422 QT output

redmag_2Kproreshq422.jpg

Info from QT Inspector for Apple ProRes 2K HQ 422 QT output

Mac Pro test computer hardware specification >>>
Click to expand...

The CineForm 2048 output now defaults to 4:4:4. So CineForm 444 2K is lower bit-rate than ProRes 422. Not bad.
 
flameop said:
ok as usual I'm lost with all these cine neo options etc..

For mac.. what exactly do we need to DL install ?

Also is it available now? just the codec to purchase for OSX pipelines?

Cheers

Si
Click to expand...

Sorry it is a liitle confusing, we don't sell a Mac only solution. The Mac license comes with NEO HD/2K or soon with NEO 4K. You get both PC and Mac licenses as we are promoting a cross platform solution. The PC part of NEO includes a lot of conversion utilities that Mac user can run under Parallels.

Available now:
NEO HD (PC up to 1920x1080 4:2:2) + which includes a 2K Mac license is $599.
NEO 2K is 2048x2048 4:4:4 Mac and PC is $799.

our plan is for NEO 4K to be $999 for the two plaform license, supporting unrestricted resolution. Do 8K encodes if you wish.
 
David Newman said:
Sorry it is a liitle confusing, we don't sell a Mac only solution. The Mac license comes with NEO HD/2K or soon with NEO 4K. You get both PC and Mac licenses as we are promoting a cross platform solution. The PC part of NEO includes a lot of conversion utilities that Mac user can run under Parallels.

Available now:
NEO HD (PC up to 1920x1080 4:2:2) + which includes a 2K Mac license is $599.
NEO 2K is 2048x2048 4:4:4 Mac and PC is $799.

our plan is for NEO 4K to be $999 for the two plaform license, supporting unrestricted resolution. Do 8K encodes if you wish.
Click to expand...

Since you brought it up: Any idea on pricing for Prospect 4K?
 
I get one error during install that installing this software will replace a newer version with an older version. Then I try to render out to CF in the QT player and get a kernal panic crash. What did I do wrong?

-Noah
 
Interesting. You are using a Mac I'm guessing. That versioning error is not likely to be the CineForm codec but the Pace protection software (which we really don't like -- any non-dongle alternatives on the Intel Mac?) So the crash (which I've never seen) may be related to Pace if there versioning issue. Do you have the same issue exporting out of RedCine?
 
David Newman said:
Interesting. You are using a Mac I'm guessing. That versioning error is not likely to be the CineForm codec but the Pace protection software (which we really don't like -- any non-dongle alternatives on the Intel Mac?)
Click to expand...

There's also the HASP dongle by Aladdin on the Mac.

Cheers,

-rune
 
David,

I am very interested in this codec. Here is what I need.. Hopefully you can point me to the right place:

My interest at this time is more the 2k 1080p/i 720 and even 480i formats. I have no problem using premiere pro so that's fine.

My main concern is render speed from RedCine, and the ability to export to other formats from premiere.

I had HOPED to have a lot more choices in output formats in REDCine (like AVI, WMV ect.) this would have been great for shooting for clients, then going to REDCine and outputting their requested codec off to their hard drive. It's kind of what I thought REDCine was going to do.

However, if Avid, Premiere, and all the other editing systems support quicktime, then I guess that will work alright
 
David Newman said:
We haven't completed 4K support in Premiere yet, so there will be issue for a few more weeks. Things will work better in Premiere today if you turn off the 32-bit float mode. Also re-wrapping MOV to AVI will work better in Premiere today. We need to get the 4096 fixed as your timeline is likely to be 2048, which as nicely accelerated, whereas 4088 decoded as 2044, will then need to be scaled to 2048 for playback (not efficient.) 4096 expoorts will solve this.

White screen in AE, sounds like your need a Quicktime upgrade. AE works fine with the 4K images, this what we did all our testing with. Unfortunately the Quicktime player will not do wavelet sub-res decode requests, so 4K playback will be slow. AE does handle sub-res decodes.
Click to expand...

Updating Quicktime fixed the AE issue, but I converted to AVI regardless. I am getting 6fps in AE when decoding 4K at 2K, which is about the same as I get reading 2K at 2K, so that is great. Now I just need a faster system to increase all of those numbers. I didn't see much difference between AVI and MOV besides that Premiere put render bars over my 4K AVI. Looking forward to 4096 wide files for less scaling issues, so hopefully it won't take them too long to fix that in RedCine. Does RedAlert create Cineform4K files at full res? (If I use a Mac)
 
Great, now we are getting somewhere and to have the Cineform Intermediate as an output codec for RedCine is great.

But my "real" optimal workflow would be - instead of using RedCine - to directly stream RedCode RAW to CineForm RAW and then work with those files directly on the PP timeline / in AE.

1) No de-bayer + encoding times
2) Retain the flexibility of RAW directly on the PP timeline and not being locked down to the color settings you set in RedCine before rendering out
3) Maybe speed improvements during playback

David, could you comment on the 2K / 1K playback speed of 4K Cineform Intermediate vs. 4K Cineform RAW files? And could the Cineform RAW be extended to store the additional metainfo found in RedCode Raw (once the conversion is figured out :) )?
 
I have a question for david, or anyone that knows,
I'm wondering if I render out from redcine 1080 cineform,
and take those to a 1080 cineform project in cs3, is there a recommended I/O card that works with cineform to get 1080 out to a HDTV, without having to render to the I/o cards codec.

Appreciate any ideas on this.

Stricko
 
stricko108 said:
I have a question for david, or anyone that knows,
I'm wondering if I render out from redcine 1080 cineform,
and take those to a 1080 cineform project in cs3, is there a recommended I/O card that works with cineform to get 1080 out to a HDTV, without having to render to the I/o cards codec.

Appreciate any ideas on this.

Stricko
Click to expand...

Prospect HD v3 supports both the Xena-HS and Xena-LH(e) HD-SDI card in Premiere. (BMD Decklink/Multibridge is almost there, according to Cineform.)
In Premiere, you can even use the second monitor function of your graphics card, if it supports that. AE needs AJA/Blackmagic etc.
 
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