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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Chris Nolan and "Inception"

I feel the need to chime in here. I thought Inception was phenomenal. It seems to me that the biggest complaint in this thread was the dream rule system. For me, it was like a game of chess. Nolan made the rules and the audience plays the game, it is all quite fascinating to me. Who cares of the rules do not make perfect sense, the movie essentially involves conceptual fringe science so anything is technically possible. Assuming that multiple individuals can share and consciously form one big dream, like an role playing game in the head, is far-fetched to say the least so once you get over that, all the other concepts do not seem so out of line. If there were no rule-system in place, it would be impossible to come to any conclusions about what was going on.

Is this the most mind-bending film ever made? No. But it allows "average" audiences to engage in a much more complex and thought provoking film than they would normally see. This is after all a summer popcorn movie. I use the term "average" because most have never seen or heard of names like Tarkovsky and Lynch. I frankly hate David Lynch films. I love Tarkovsky, just look at my profile signature. Different strokes for different folks. I think people are reading into this film way too much. Does it deserve to be put on a pedestal? No. I'm sure that there are numerous art house films that people here would consider to be more mind bending but Inception is not meant to be compared with those films, it is in its own category. I think that we can all agree that Hollywood needs to starting making more big-budget films like this. The need to put their money behind guys like Nolan, Aronofsky and Blomkamp, not Bay, Bruckheimer and Cameron.

For me, this film is much more enjoyable when you accept the rules of dream-sharing and then try to solve the mystery from there. Once you start questioning the purpose behind each rule, not only will you tire yourself out but you will not enjoy the film. Some here have stated that the dialogue was tacky. Really? I thought the film was very well written and that is coming from someone who was less than impressed by the dialogue of The Dark Knight. Have you heard the dialogue in Avatar? Common people, this film is certainly a step in the right direction. How does it compare to Memento? Well it certainly is a return to form for Nolan. In terms of story, I think they are about equal but Inception takes the cake because of the visuals which in some respects are more impressive than the plasticky look of Avatar.

Is Inception the greatest, most mind-bending earth shattering experience in cinema? Probably not but it may be the greatest summer blockbuster of all time. Look at The Matrix, it was filled with bad acting, laughable dialogue and fuzzy logic but that did not stop audiences from falling in love with it. It was creative, innovative and unforgettable. Inception truly was unforgettable. There is nothing quite like having a film get stuck in your head long after you finished watching that. Were there some flaws? Yes, but there are few truly perfect films and as far as summer big-budget films go, Inception is certainly a standout. Now all they need to do is leave it as a stand-alone film and not try to milk it.
 
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I just really don't think that Inception told a very compelling story.

Cobb and Fischer were the only two characters with any emotional depth, and very little of the action on the screen had anything to do with their emotional stories. And Fischer, who I thought was the most intriguing character in the film, had very little screen time.

Halfway through the film I realized that I no longer cared what any of the characters were doing. It had just a become a convoluted action set-piece with practically zero emotional stakes. Not confusing... convoluted. The action was, in my opinion, disguising a lack of depth.

The climatic battle in the snow level was incredibly boring for me. It was like something out of a generic action film compared to the hotel fight, which was somewhat unique. In fact, the hotel level was really the only part of the final mission that played around with the film's premise that they were in dreams. Aside from the train coming out of nowhere, the first level could have been something straight out of another heist / kidnapping film. And the whole snow battle felt like Nolan was auditioning for the next James Bond film.

I really had zero emotional investment in their mission. I literally could not care less whether they succeeded in convincing Fischer to destroy his father's company. The only real stake to them failing the mission was that Cobb was going to be arrested at the airport. They tried to up the stakes with "limbo," but that felt more confusing than anything else, because it didn't make sense that they would enter a dream where they would be shot at hundreds of times, if dying in the dream meant that they would be trapped in their subconscious minds forever.

And I'm not saying that I didn't care about the Fischer character. He was actually my favorite character in the film.

It's just that all of the action itself was almost completely unrelated to Cobb or Fischer's emotional journeys. They could have cut out most of the action / fight scenes (especially the snow battle), and had very little effect on the story.


To quote Shakespeare, Inception felt to me like a film that was "full of sound and fury; signifying nothing." Beautifully crafted and shot, but emotionally hollow.
 
None of you guys find it strange that every dream featured gun fights and explosions? What exactly did the endless shooting contribute to the story? To me, it did nothing but dilute it.

Same with the tightly stacked dialog.
There was literally no space between the most scenes and the dialog, it felt extremely rushed with no beats.

The dream rules only annoyed me because I felt patronized.
It's a pity that they found it necessary to dumb it down.
 
Milan Spasic said:
None of you guys find it strange that every dream featured gun fights and explosions? What exactly did the endless shooting contribute to the story? To me, it did nothing but dilute it.

Same with the tightly stacked dialog.
There was literally no space between the most scenes and the dialog, it felt extremely rushed with no beats.

The dream rules only annoyed me because I felt patronized.
It's a pity that they found it necessary to dumb it down.
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Well in my personal opinion, the whole film was a dream, including the portions that we assumed were reality. Even those portions had elements that did not seem grounded in reality. Who would Saito call that was so high up they could instantly have all charges dropped? What about the first corporation that Cobb failed? I assume they would continue to keep looking for him even if he was a free man in the U.S. Cobb never made his own totem so how would he know the true characteristics of the top,ect. I did not find the rules patronizing at all. If you believe that none of it was really real than the rules are almost inconsequential.

I have certainly had dreams with shooting involved (I have actually had multiple dreams about fighting in Vietnam even though I am 20). Nolan wanted to make an action film with an intelligent plot. There are plenty of films that twist the mind without action. Keep in mind that a film with a budget this large needs to draw in an audience. It would not be doing nearly as well if the action element had been removed. I think the movie should be praised for its ability to both thrill and keep the audience guessing. To each is own but I have a feeling the film will be remembered for a long time and viewed more positively down the road.
 
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the whole thing was a dream. the wife was right.. that spinning top thing he had.. was his wifes remember..

no one person could use another persons.. except he made it his in the deeper dream worlds.. however.. in what he perceived to be reality (the reality in which his wife killed herself in)
that was HER top.. and would NOT have worked for him in that world..
 
Alex G. Cohn said:
I just really don't think that Inception told a very compelling story.

Cobb and Fischer were the only two characters with any emotional depth, and very little of the action on the screen had anything to do with their emotional stories. And Fischer, who I thought was the most intriguing character in the film, had very little screen time.

Halfway through the film I realized that I no longer cared what any of the characters were doing. It had just a become a convoluted action set-piece with practically zero emotional stakes. Not confusing... convoluted. The action was, in my opinion, disguising a lack of depth.

The climatic battle in the snow level was incredibly boring for me. It was like something out of a generic action film compared to the hotel fight, which was somewhat unique. In fact, the hotel level was really the only part of the final mission that played around with the film's premise that they were in dreams. Aside from the train coming out of nowhere, the first level could have been something straight out of another heist / kidnapping film. And the whole snow battle felt like Nolan was auditioning for the next James Bond film.

I really had zero emotional investment in their mission. I literally could not care less whether they succeeded in convincing Fischer to destroy his father's company. The only real stake to them failing the mission was that Cobb was going to be arrested at the airport. They tried to up the stakes with "limbo," but that felt more confusing than anything else, because it didn't make sense that they would enter a dream where they would be shot at hundreds of times, if dying in the dream meant that they would be trapped in their subconscious minds forever.

And I'm not saying that I didn't care about the Fischer character. He was actually my favorite character in the film.

It's just that all of the action itself was almost completely unrelated to Cobb or Fischer's emotional journeys. They could have cut out most of the action / fight scenes (especially the snow battle), and had very little effect on the story.


To quote Shakespeare, Inception felt to me like a film that was "full of sound and fury; signifying nothing." Beautifully crafted and shot, but emotionally hollow.
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I wholeheartedly agree with Alex's assessment. I found this film absolutely rigid and void of true emotion. I just didn't care about anyone. Fischer was certainly the most intriguing but alas was not serviced by the script. I did enjoy Hardy in this film but I couldn't get behind anyone else, least of whom, Ellen Page. Her casting was an absolute catastrophe not to mention a lost opportunity. She looked like a child amongst men for one and provided no sensual/sexual tension whatsoever. Had they chosen to cast a WOMAN in that role, she could have provided some tension for Cobb...
dream levels:
1. rain/warehouse (yusuf's dream)
2. hotel/elevator (fischer's dream)
3. snow (fischer's dream)
4. mal (cobb's dream)

Anyway - why is Saito lost? When he dies in level 3, shouldn't he have awakened in 2 with gordon levitt? Per the mythology of the film, dying bumps you up a level (or were we supposed to believe that he'd already died in level 2?)

How does Cobb find Saito, since he doesn't go to level 4?

Meh, it's a house of cards.
 
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My thoughts:
4/5.

Well made summer popcorn movie with a subtext that could be read as a treatise about filmmaking. Not much deeper than that and to be honest, we shouldn't ask for much more as long as we're entertained.

In this climate of sequels, prequels, reboots and movies based on board games an Auteur like Chris Nolan getting $140-180 million to do an original pet project should be celebrated.


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Having said that, I dare Cobb & co. to extract something from my mindscape. My projections would be jedis, Giger's Alien and Tracy Morgan. The gravity wouldn't stop shifting. Their mindscapes just seemed tame to me...but I appreciated how the lack of utterly bizarre goings on is explained as the mind not accepting anything too out of the ordinary.

And on another note it bought a smile to my face when I realised that the only reason everyone has slicked back/pinned into a bun hair is to pull off the gravity scene without having to cg the actors' hair. Cheap and lo fi solution to a high tech problem :)
 
Sid Idris said:
Anyway - why is Saito lost? When he dies in level 3, shouldn't he have awakened in 2 with gordon levitt? Per the mythology of the film, dying bumps you up a level (or were we supposed to believe that he'd already died in level 2?
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This was explained explicitly when Eames was about to kill Saito in the "first" level (warehouse/van) after he'd been shot. Cobb stopped him and said that because he was so heavily sedated, he wouldn't "bump up" and wake up but that his mind would be lost in limbo, possibly forever.
 
Thor Melsted said:
This was explained explicitly when Eames was about to kill Saito in the "first" level (warehouse/van) after he'd been shot. Cobb stopped him and said that because he was so heavily sedated, he wouldn't "bump up" and wake up but that his mind would be lost in limbo, possibly forever.
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correct that was in the first level. my question was in reference to level 3.
 
The movie shows Saito dying in level 3, but he died in all the levels at the exact same time.
 
the rules dont matter because it was all a dream


it was a journey he needed to go to release mol .. in the end the children are in the exact spot with the same clothes in the same position ..and the spinning top does not matter anyway because it was mol's totem no his


i suspect he's in a comma and she killed herself to escape the dream world .. maybe they went down so many levels that once they got hit by the train it just bumped them up a level like it did to Joseph levitts character when he was shot in the head

that was also a dream inside a dream


mol was right they were still in the dream when she jumped

imo
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
if that's the case - and I am not saying it is or isn't - then doesn't that just serve to lower the stakes even more for the characters? and especially for the viewers?

just sayin...
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I think it's a good metaphor for life, I mean lets be honest, no one really knows what the hell this life is. People claim they know, people believe certain things, people want to believe things, but when it all comes down to it no one really knows what the hell is going on and it's up to you to decide how important everything is. Just a thought.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
if that's the case - and I am not saying it is or isn't - then doesn't that just serve to lower the stakes even more for the characters? and especially for the viewers?

just sayin...
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Just because it is a dream does not mean the stakes were any lower for Cobb. He still lost Mol and everything he is going through is real to him

even during the real scenes there were dream like qualities such as the walls moving in closer and closer during the alley scene

I believe it was explained in the movie ... that everything in the dream seems real and genuine its not until you wake up that the dream seems out of place or odd
 
Of course I loved Inception - but I'm biased :)

To me, it's awesome that a film set in a world of Modernist architecture which is all about truth to material is in many ways about filmmaking itself.

Yes it gets away with a lot because it could be "all a dream" - but: Cobb's feelings are as real as any other movie protagonist, whether his dream is real or not. To a certain extent, every movie is a lie. So in a way, this is the most logical movie of all in a Pirandello "Six Characters In Search of an Author" kind of way. It admits its nature and then goes on to exploit the medium to its fullest. For a movie set in dreams, it is pretty damn cohesive.

What's also amazing is that of all of the interpretations of the ending my various friends have, they are all satisfying. They run on parallel emotional lines and don't feel like a cheat.

Gavin Greenwalt said:
Crumbling City looked very miniature-y to me.
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I read them as being Cobb's dream of what a crumbling city would look like, mixed up in his mind with those sandcastles on the beach, etc. So miniatures would be appropriate, I think?

Meryem Ersoz said:
And geez, those dream projections, for all their firepower, could not hit the side of a barn. That seemed a little implausible, for all the bullets expended.
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I read it as us being in a dream - when I'm in a dream and people are shooting at me or I am in danger, I don't get hit that often. The same logic is taking place there - just as there was an angry crowd outside in the beginning that takes a long time to get there.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
chrislancaster said:
the rules dont matter because it was all a dream...
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uh-oh...may be sitting this one out. Seen way too many short
films that didn't know how to tie up their story...hence use the it was
all a dream ending.

Then again Wizard of Oz used the dream ending to great effect
whereas in the novel Oz was a real place. Guess the difference is
whether there are lessons learned in the dream world that
resonate with the viewer or if the dream world is just used for
cheap tricks that make you feel like you wasted your time.
 
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