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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Che

Hi Raymond,

great to hear from you! I really liked your son's film at our last years festival, BTW. Maybe a bit heavy subject for his age, but he definitely got talent in his genes…

Best regards,

Uli
 
Jannard said:
It is an interesting time for your 1st post. What motivated you to come here now? Any reason you don't sign your real name? What other "current" footage have you seen besides that shot with prototypes?

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

The vast majority of members here don't sign with their real name which is a shame IMHO. As you know it's mandatory over @.com & for a very good reason.

Stephen
 
Stephen, it's even better when you post with your picture as I can recognise you at trade shows and have a chat to you!

But you're right - if you post with your name and you're a known person, what you say carries some weight. There are quite a few posters here that I always read not just because they have good / interesting things to say, but because they're people I know, I've met, or had phone chats with. Almost everyone who's been to a trade show in the last couple of years has met Jim, myself, Deanan, Rob, Stuart & Jarred who all post here regularly.

Of course, even when mandatory, you get fakes... To me, I like real names, but I think anyone who posts under a pseudonym knows that their words carry less worth than a real name.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Or put the question another way - if I gave a "curve" (straight line) of how the sensor responded to light, what would you do with that? What on earth use would it be to you? It doesn't tell you anything - just like the film curves Kodak give out don't tell you that the blue channel looks all nasty and that the grain gets in the way of the image at this brightness level here and so on and so forth.
Click to expand...

I don't quite agree with you. Having the sensor response curves (or lines) would permit to derive the mathematical function needed to emulate a particular filmstock.
 
It's a linear light response. If you export linear light, that's what you get. If you want to build any external curves on top of that, that's all the info you need.

Graeme
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Jim,

The vast majority of members here don't sign with their real name which is a shame IMHO. As you know it's mandatory over @.com & for a very good reason.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Yes, the forum would be better if we all had to use our real names.

Although it won't be as much fun teasing and giving users like film101 a hard time! :)

Is it too late to change the rules?

I think there would be far less "rude" posts. Critical is okay, rude is just unnecessarily disrespectful.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
It's a linear light response. If you export linear light, that's what you get. If you want to build any external curves on top of that, that's all the info you need.
Click to expand...

Again, let me, respectfully, disagree with you.

1. If we are talking about light sensitivity response of a neutral (non-colored light), the following graphics are linear transfer functions, but will yield very different results:

lumi_3.jpg
lumi_1.jpg


A zero value on output doesn't necessarily mean that zero light was hitting the sensor. There is a toe value below which the sensor will read zero (to be more precise, zero + a noise value induced by the sensor and the A/D stage). There is also a upper limit beyond which it will clip. So even if there is a pure linear transfer response, those two values are needed.

2. Color transfer is most likely not a linear function (1) for any kind of sensor because they rely on RGB pixels that have a sensitivity centered on a particular wavelength (2).

(1)
color_2.jpg
(2)
color_1.jpg


Meaning that under constant illumination, surfaces reflecting different wavelengths will not get the same output in luminance. Even on graph #2 where there is perfect ellipse type transfer function, we would need the center wavelength value and attenuation factor. The curves of any sensor are more than likely to be more complex than that.

3. When you combine the first two parameters (luma and chroma) they wont necessarily react consistently in a linear fashion. ie: saturation tend to lower in darker area and they will do so in a different manner over the wavelength range. An example easily visible by eye (and memory) is filmstocks of a few decades ago (60s-70s). Then will oversaturate in normal to high exposure range but will be desaturated in low exposure zones.
 
I am glad I came at NAB, I saw the footage by myself from Argentine and Guerilla and it was fantastic... I came to the NAB show to confirm my feeling about RED... I was not desapointed... And I ordered my camera when I came back...
#4022 seems so far to me right now. But time will come...
Keep the good work RED!

Antoine MARTEAU From France
 
Red transfer curve, color sensitivity

Red transfer curve, color sensitivity

Spoutnik said:
2. Color transfer is most likely not a linear function for any kind of sensor because they rely on RGB pixels that have a sensitivity centered on a particular wavelength.
Click to expand...

If you are genuinely interested in the Red spectral response function, I believe the R3D I posted here (looking into a spectroscope) is the most detailed spectral information which has yet been published. If you export that R3D as a linear TIFF and plot the R,G,B values across the horizontal axis you will get a chart of the sensitivity vs. wavelength. http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-080108/page2.html#Test_6

You might properly object that the plot won't be the "sensor" RGB values, but rather the virtual primaries after whatever matrixing Redcine, Redalert etc. has done in your colorspace of choice. Which is perfectly true, but for now there is no visibility of the original RGB anyway. It's a sealed black box and the Redcine etc. output is all that's available, so you might as well build your color model around that.
 
jbeale said:
If you are genuinely interested in the Red spectral response function, I believe the R3D I posted here (looking into a spectroscope) is the most detailed spectral information which has yet been published. If you export that R3D as a linear TIFF and plot the R,G,B values across the horizontal axis you will get a chart of the sensitivity vs. wavelength. http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-080108/page2.html#Test_6

You might properly object that the plot won't be the "sensor" RGB values, but rather the virtual primaries after whatever matrixing Redcine, Redalert etc. has done in your colorspace of choice. Which is perfectly true, but for now there is no visibility of the original RGB anyway. It's a sealed black box and the Redcine etc. output is all that's available, so you might as well build your color model around that.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll look into that. You right, the sensor output is of secondary interest since we don't have access to it (quite fine with me). But even the RAW R3D is unlikely to be perfect linear as there is not much done by the camera in term of image processing anyway. If I remember correctly, only dead pixels processing is done in-camera.
 
Spoutnik said:
2. Color transfer is most likely not a linear function (1) for any kind of sensor because they rely on RGB pixels that have a sensitivity centered on a particular wavelength (2).
Click to expand...

Linearity here is taken to mean that given an illuminant power spectrum, the response to the sum of different wavelengths is equal to the sum of responses to different wavelengths, which is the definition of linearity.
 
Khristian said:
you know i hate to stray of topic even if it is a very Trivial one but why would a thread like this, seemingly ordinary, have over 9,000 views . Maybe it should enter the post competition for the most views in the shortest amount of time
Click to expand...


I don't think it's ordinary - Che is the first all-RED (double) feature to be released, it's historic.

I'm seeing a 26th of June release date on IMDB for The Argentine, is it real? Or at least - close?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0892255/releaseinfo
 
karapetkov said:
I don't think it's ordinary - Che is the first all-RED (double) feature to be released, it's historic.

I'm seeing a 26th of June release date on IMDB for The Argentine, is it real? Or at least - close?
Click to expand...

I believe Che remains unsold, unless it was acquired in the last day or two. Che may never get a real theatrical run. The prevailing view here, accepted only after film101 took a lot of abuse, that some of the shots weren't so great but that the movie itself is grand, is pretty much reversed in the critical press.

The reviewers and buyers see nothing wrong with the visuals, but don't like the movie much.
Just because it's shot on Red by Steven Soderbergh doesn't mean it's good, in any respect. Sometimes the mythology in this place gets out of control.
 
Its a smoke screen, remember they are still negotiating.

I would bet anything if Soderbergh desided to break all the rules and took it upon himself to self distribute ( Or at least made a public announcement of his intent ) focusing exclusivly on the Spanish Speaking Territories these so called Reluctantly-Cautious-Distributers would have an immediate change of heart and start banging their knuckles bloody at his door, at which point he would be able to double his first asking price ... Just an idea Steve.

It ain`t over til the Fat Lady Sings.


DogDay
 
jpp said:
I believe Che remains unsold, unless it was acquired in the last day or two. Che may never get a real theatrical run. The prevailing view here, accepted only after film101 took a lot of abuse, that some of the shots weren't so great but that the movie itself is grand, is pretty much reversed in the critical press.

The reviewers and buyers see nothing wrong with the visuals, but don't like the movie much.
Just because it's shot on Red by Steven Soderbergh doesn't mean it's good, in any respect. Sometimes the mythology in this place gets out of control.
Click to expand...


Supposed to be that JJP is sort of ex-CIA informant :) :) :) .
 
karapetkov said:
I don't think it's ordinary - Che is the first all-RED (double) feature to be released, it's historic.

I'm seeing a 26th of June release date on IMDB for The Argentine, is it real? Or at least - close?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0892255/releaseinfo
Click to expand...

yeah i suppose , i saw posters at the cinema for wanted which should be out soon and hoping The nothing men is released soon to http://www.thenothingmen.com/trailer.html

looks pretty Organic for what is a Digital camera... wouldn't you think ?

Pure Aussie Class !:)
 
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