Charging Extra for 3D?

[Michael McLaughlin]

funny how I can see both sides...

funny how I can see both sides...

I agree with both Tom / Acehole and... MMost.

I can agree with, one person saying "paying four dollars is a ripoff"...

I also can agree that when one hears this one can see this person as "wanting a free entightlement" (but it almost sounds more of a slight to the individuals character when said this way).

I think as I read, as both Acehole and MMost flesh out their arguments more, I see were the breakdown is happening and the points are being misconstrued.

Although I really enjoy seeing these discussion get heated, I worry that they walk up to the edge of insulting some one flat out.



God I'm tired... I think my eyes are bleeding.

I will make a more coherent post on explaining my point tommorow,
unless someone can make it for me before then.

Battle on brothers : = )

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Ticket prices need to drop so that I spend more money.

The more time spent in a theater = more time buying food. They need to sell like all day passes. Since most distribution is covered by a handful of companies in all likelihood they'll just walk in to another one of your showings. Or if you are competing during a busy weekend then both you and your competitor might get a viewing instead of just one of you.

It's not entitlement it's good business for all involved.

When I play golf I can take in my receipt and get a second round in for a steeply discounted rate. Why? Because almost everyone just goes home. Any more revenue is a bonus.

That being said: if you don't want to pay an extra $5. Don't spend the extra $5. It's almost always playing in 2D as well.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think the real problem is the theater business model is flawed and even with the established rates and practices for film distribution, there are better ways for the theater companies to earn their revenue. Theater attendance is down in general and continues to slide. I look back on a lot of films over the past year or so that I have elected to not pay money for. Slumdog Millionaire, Benjamin Button, etc.. I waited and rented the DVD / Blu-Ray. I really wanted to go see them on the big screen, but with our schedule and taking the kids to see other stuff, and the cost related to other entertainment options, it didn't happen.

If I take the wife and two kids to a movie, just a 2D one and get the matinee price, wife and I share a medium drink, kids each get their kids' pack (mini-pack with about 18 skittles inside, handful of popcorn and a really small drink), that's $75. ...That's bullshit. We don't go see as many movies as we used to, a lot has to do with cost when I think how many other things can be done for $75 that the family will enjoy just as much or more and will last longer than spending 90 minutes in a semi-comfortable chair surrounded by a bunch of annoying people.

I like Gavin's idea of day passes. Or even just movie passes that are good for so many days in a year or whatever. Increase the selection and quality at the concession stands, lower the prices to realistic levels so people stop smuggling things in. Not that anyone really smuggles. Hell, I walked into Monsters vs. Aliens with my 3D glasses in one hand and a QDoba bag in the other. Went and saw UP on opening day, caught the 3:30PM showing. It was showing every 30 minutes and for what purpose I don't know, at $10+tax per ticket for 3D and $20 for a bucket of popcorn and $8 for a large Coke, no wonder there were only about 30 other people in the theater with us.

I'm not looking for freebies or trying to promote a higher sense of entitlement... But looking at it from the perspective of owning and running my own businesses, the theater industry is really screwing up. All it would take is one independent or one smaller chain to make a move and really shake things up. But they're so damn conservative and set in their established line of thinking it seems none are willing to take a chance and try something new.

I guess if I opened one up, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the ticket sales counter / box office staff. Go all automated.. Have a customer service desk with one live person to deal with the occasional problems and oversee the automated system.

Concessions... Offer stuff people want. The candy is fine. Make better popcorn. Sell it for reasonable prices that won't piss people off. Integrate a goddamn Starbucks. You know, if people had passes that would get them into multiple movies and there's a full-service Starbucks there along with a Ben & Jerry's...

Stop with the showing new movies every 30 minutes and only filling the theater 30% full. Cut down on the number of prints or digital distributions of each film that are bought. Increase variety -- after all, you want people to hang around with those movie passes and buy food, snacks, etc.. Cycle older content in with new. Have a mystery movie every now and then and mini-festivals and marathons. Wouldn't it be cool to go catch the original Star Wars trilogy, or Indiana Jones, or LOTR one weekend on the big screen again?

Our discussion here isn't going to change anything. Theater companies won't change their ways until profits dry up. Studios don't give a rat's ass anymore. They make tons more on video sales anyway and the average time from theatrical release to home video is continuously shrinking. At the rate things are going, in the not too distant future, most every Hollywood film will be available to buy or rent as soon as it's OK'd for release as studios continue to push for instant gratification of all revenue channels kicking into high gear.

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired and this is one hell of a pointless rant...

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I think the real problem is the theater business model is flawed and even with the established rates and practices for film distribution, there are better ways for the theater companies to earn their revenue. Theater attendance is down in general and continues to slide. I look back on a lot of films over the past year or so that I have elected to not pay money for. Slumdog Millionaire, Benjamin Button, etc.. I waited and rented the DVD / Blu-Ray. I really wanted to go see them on the big screen, but with our schedule and taking the kids to see other stuff, and the cost related to other entertainment options, it didn't happen.

If I take the wife and two kids to a movie, just a 2D one and get the matinee price, wife and I share a medium drink, kids each get their kids' pack (mini-pack with about 18 skittles inside, handful of popcorn and a really small drink), that's $75. ...That's bullshit. We don't go see as many movies as we used to, a lot has to do with cost when I think how many other things can be done for $75 that the family will enjoy just as much or more and will last longer than spending 90 minutes in a semi-comfortable chair surrounded by a bunch of annoying people.

I like Gavin's idea of day passes. Or even just movie passes that are good for so many days in a year or whatever. Increase the selection and quality at the concession stands, lower the prices to realistic levels so people stop smuggling things in. Not that anyone really smuggles. Hell, I walked into Monsters vs. Aliens with my 3D glasses in one hand and a QDoba bag in the other. Went and saw UP on opening day, caught the 3:30PM showing. It was showing every 30 minutes and for what purpose I don't know, at $10+tax per ticket for 3D and $20 for a bucket of popcorn and $8 for a large Coke, no wonder there were only about 30 other people in the theater with us.

I'm not looking for freebies or trying to promote a higher sense of entitlement... But looking at it from the perspective of owning and running my own businesses, the theater industry is really screwing up. All it would take is one independent or one smaller chain to make a move and really shake things up. But they're so damn conservative and set in their established line of thinking it seems none are willing to take a chance and try something new.

I guess if I opened one up, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the ticket sales counter / box office staff. Go all automated.. Have a customer service desk with one live person to deal with the occasional problems and oversee the automated system.

Concessions... Offer stuff people want. The candy is fine. Make better popcorn. Sell it for reasonable prices that won't piss people off. Integrate a goddamn Starbucks. You know, if people had passes that would get them into multiple movies and there's a full-service Starbucks there along with a Ben & Jerry's...

Stop with the showing new movies every 30 minutes and only filling the theater 30% full. Cut down on the number of prints or digital distributions of each film that are bought. Increase variety -- after all, you want people to hang around with those movie passes and buy food, snacks, etc.. Cycle older content in with new. Have a mystery movie every now and then and mini-festivals and marathons. Wouldn't it be cool to go catch the original Star Wars trilogy, or Indiana Jones, or LOTR one weekend on the big screen again?

Our discussion here isn't going to change anything. Theater companies won't change their ways until profits dry up. Studios don't give a rat's ass anymore. They make tons more on video sales anyway and the average time from theatrical release to home video is continuously shrinking. At the rate things are going, in the not too distant future, most every Hollywood film will be available to buy or rent as soon as it's OK'd for release as studios continue to push for instant gratification of all revenue channels kicking into high gear.

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired and this is one hell of a pointless rant...

you should move to Paris, great place for a cinema lover

 

[Brent J. Craig]

3D movie pricing can be figured out with simple math:

In Canada we are used to paying $12 to see a 2D movie.

That's 6 bucks per D.

Adding an extra D to the experience should add $6 to the price. 12+6 = 18

If you are paying anything less than $18 for 3D, you're getting part of that extra D for free.

Free-D! :biggrin5:

 

[GlennChan]

I'm not looking for freebies or trying to promote a higher sense of entitlement... But looking at it from the perspective of owning and running my own businesses, the theater industry is really screwing up. All it would take is one independent or one smaller chain to make a move and really shake things up. But they're so damn conservative and set in their established line of thinking it seems none are willing to take a chance and try something new.

In Canada we have Rainbow... their business model doesn't seem to work as well as Cineplex/Silvercity.

Go all automated.. Have a customer service desk with one live person to deal with the occasional problems and oversee the automated system.

They have that at Cineplex locations.

Theater companies won't change their ways until profits dry up.

When companies profits dry up, they will get desperate and be more likely to do things you would disapprove of. e.g. run the bulbs dimmer, pay minimum wage for projectionists who may not bother to focus the projector properly, etc. etc.

And the cinemas aren't exactly making a killing. Regal Cinemas (RGC) shows a return on assets of 3.73%. That is a razor thin margin... there were times when you could deposit money in the bank and get the same returns risk-free. Cineplex shows return on assets of 3.17%.

Anyways, I feel that this is getting into
:beatdeadhorse:
territory

 

[rod bradley]

A lot of interesting points -- I suspect theater attendance will continue to break down. It will become an increasingly "elite" experience in the US and other developed countries. It will become a rare "treat" as it has already for the great majority. It will price itself into that elite realm. Become almost a niche experience. Many reasons, as we know. Ticket prices being one. They just don't make sense for what you get -- or can get for less.

To me the saddest aspect of this entire business is that it tends to "de-socialize" the movie experience. At the same time that the desperation for box-office starts to influence production itself -- and the big showy blockbuster mentality where huge amounts of promo can "force" audiences becomes the golden calf. Whether said blockbuster has merit or not even as entertainment.

I myself am wondering how a kind of global restructuring of financial power figures into all of this and would be curious as to the thoughts of the obviously astute commentators here. Because it's happening, whether we want to admit it or not. The US will be sharing its financial hegemony. Already the Japanese are talking about wanting repayment of loans in yen, not dollars. And the Chinese holding 2 trillion in our debt. And the unfortunate (to my mind) move of rebuilding the same excessively financialized Wall Street culture that weakens us (of course with a touch of regulation, but the same absurd non-productive activity grotesquely rewarded) -- History has shown over and over excessive rewards for money shuffling have been the downfall of many a great empire/nation-- witness Spain, Netherlands, UK.

Granted, movies as a shared social experience are pretty small potatotes in all of this.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

They have that at Cineplex locations.

We have lots of automated ticket terminals, yet most people still choose to stand in line and most automated terminals are an afterthought or in some cases will charge extra convenience fees.

When companies profits dry up, they will get desperate and be more likely to do things you would disapprove of.

true.

pay minimum wage for projectionists who may not bother to focus the projector properly, etc. etc.

They already do this. :angry: Actually I don't know about the minimum wage part, but out of focus projectors are pretty common these days.

And the cinemas aren't exactly making a killing. Regal Cinemas (RGC) shows a return on assets of 3.73%.

Exactly. Kinda makes you think they would try something different, eh? It's all about butts in the seats concession sales. Both of which are dwindling... gotta find ways to get them back. Regal has partnered with others like NCM to bring live event coverage (like the Metropolitan Opera) to the big screen for live broadcast events and whatnot. Good concept, but they're not taking it far enough.

They have to do things to bring more people in, explore new avenues and concepts. Projection hardware is getting cheaper. However, labor and property costs are going up. Content prices are also going up even though digital distribution is becoming more common and is cheaper than film distribution from a media point of view, but that's not what prices are based on.

Anyways, I feel that this is getting into
:beatdeadhorse:
territory

Agreed.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I thought the whole point of this 3D stuff was to draw in more audience members, by offering them something they could not really get at home? Not to try to grab another $5 bucks out of their wallet! To me, the whole idea of this 3D trend was to offer the viewer something more, to attract them to the theater. If a family of four has to pay an additional $20 dollars on top of the $40 they already shelled out, I think this will repel more families than it attracts. Plus, they will feel they are getting a raw deal if they have to pay full price for "only 2D." It somehow will make the 2D feel like the "cheapskate" experience.

In terms of the theater model, I think they do a pretty decent job. The seats are nicer these days, and they are obviously making money on the Cokes and Popcorn, etc. I mean, the only thing they could really do differently would be to serve cocktails (very profitable!), or maybe some better food choices or whatever. But I'm sure that local governments would make getting a liquor license very difficult, so perhaps that is not even an option for some theaters.

 

[Jay Voutour]

3D movie pricing can be figured out with simple math:

In Canada we are used to paying $12 to see a 2D movie.

That's 6 bucks per D.

Adding an extra D to the experience should add $6 to the price. 12+6 = 18

If you are paying anything less than $18 for 3D, you're getting part of that extra D for free.

Free-D! :biggrin5:

That's hilarious. :rofl:

But don't forget about the 13% tax here in ON. :thumbsup:

In terms of the theater model, I think they do a pretty decent job. The seats are nicer these days, and they are obviously making money on the Cokes and Popcorn, etc. I mean, the only thing they could really do differently would be to serve cocktails (very profitable!), or maybe some better food choices or whatever. But I'm sure that local governments would make getting a liquor license very difficult, so perhaps that is not even an option for some theaters.

Some of the theatres here in Toronto have a bar/lounge area, but I have only ever seen one of them at full capacity (i.e. no more seats/stools) once. Even on Friday night - date night - it's so empty that the bartender isn't even there. So while the cocktails can bring in some serious dough, it doesn't matter unless there are people willing to go to the theatre to catch a flick (maybe) and some drinks. IMO, it's another half-assed attempt to generate revenue that is seriously not utilized to it's fullest potential. I mean, it's a bar people, you have to market it as such...throw an event (singles night + romcom? Gay night + Top Gun? Etc...), theme nights (have some hotties make some cocktails, give out one drink ticket/person, charge for the rest, show the movie Cocktail, have a raffle, and have the event sponsored by Bacardi/Smirnoff/Whatever and charge $20/ticket, not including booze), midnight screenings (beer allowed in the theatre area!), day-passes for mini-fests (screen trilogies, remakes+originals, JCVD films, whatever; the point is to keep people in the theatre until they can drink/eat/watch no more), etc, etc...

BTW, I think Gavin's idea of day-passes, or even reduced "2nd round" prices, is bloody brilliant, especially for the megaplexes. :thumbsup: Just keep the offer good for Mon-Thur, screen whatever you have in the vault, and have ongoing promotions (points card, NOT a CC w/ points; buy ten get one free, etc). I think teens would eat that up.
________
Teen Video

 

[Daniel Browning]

But one thing that ticked me off was that the theater charged me an extra $4 bucks for 3D. :angry:

If you voluntarily agreed to pay the higher price, I don't see where the problem is. They get their money. Your eyes get to watch 3D. Your mouth gets to complain about it. Everybody wins.

BTW, the 3D premium at my local Christie 2K theater drops to $1.50 ($9.00 vs $7.50 for a 2D) if I wait a week or two.

 

[Daniel Browning]

there are better ways for the theater companies to earn their revenue.

OK, let's see...

I like Gavin's idea of day passes. Or even just movie passes that are good for so many days in a year or whatever.

That's something that the distributor would have to agree with, right? Isn't that the same as suggesting that the theater just get better prices from the distributor and pass the savings onto the customer?

Increase the selection and quality at the concession stands,

Our local cinema has a fine restaurant, fine wine tasting, and high art. They can't make any money on ticket sales, so they're making it everywhere else. With tray tables in the theaters and other amenities it's really fun and convenient. But if you thought popcorn was expensive, wait till you see what they charge for a burger or steak.

lower the prices to realistic levels so people stop smuggling things in.

Since the distributor has the theater over a barrel, and it has to make all its money on concessions, how will lowering the price help? More volume? If popcorn goes from $10 to $1, do you think 10X as many people will buy it (to break even)? Advertising?

All it would take is one independent or one smaller chain to make a move and really shake things up.

I don't think anything will change until the studios/distributors change. 100% of ticket sales minus a small amount of hard expenditures means the theater has to find something else to make money on.

I guess if I opened one up, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the ticket sales counter / box office staff. Go all automated..

You don't already have that at your theater? (*Checks year on the calendar.*)

Integrate a goddamn Starbucks.

Eww... burnt coffee? Is that to make the popcorn taste better? Our local theater only has a *good* espresso bar.

You know, if people had passes that would get them into multiple movies

There's the distributor negotiation thing again.

along with a Ben & Jerry's...

Now you're talking. Although a five-star chef preparing custom deserts is good too.

Stop with the showing new movies every 30 minutes and only filling the theater 30% full. Cut down on the number of prints or digital distributions of each film that are bought.

That sounds like a good suggestion for saving costs. I like being able to grab a movie at any old random time, though, without waiting, so some customers will be disappointed.

Cycle older content in with new. Have a mystery movie every now and then and mini-festivals and marathons.

Excellent ideas.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

That's something that the distributor would have to agree with, right? Isn't that the same as suggesting that the theater just get better prices from the distributor and pass the savings onto the customer?

Certainly. But negotiated cross deals to boost revenue are common in the industry.

Netflix, Xbox Live, Zune all offer similar deals.

Everyone takes a hit to increase overall sales.