Censorship on REDUSER

[Andrew Rieger]

I understand the moderator's position on some of the threads becoming fist fights. I actually participated in three or four of those "foodfights" and I feel bad that those posts got deleted but the moderators are right, if your intent is to start a thread comparing Red to Canon, it is only going to lead to problems which are better avoided but discussing the issues at dvxuser. About the other stuff thread, I love it! You find so much cool stuff there.

 

[Christian Munoz D]

Well, this is reduser, and not canonuser. There are plenty of fora that discuss news regarding their cameras. Here we discuss things of interest specifically to users of REDs products, and accessoires to them.

Well...that is not totally true.
One of the best thread in Reduser is about still photography. You can see redusers and non-redusers discussing about Canon, Nikon and other equipment non Red related.

Although agree Reduser.net must be Red related only, I do not agree with censorship.

You can see the still photography thread here if is not deleted soon.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5187

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Before you guys draw too many conclusions: none of the moderators on this board are employees of RED, nor are we getting paid (except for 3 free t-shirts) and we are definately not policy makers.

Hehe... I haven't even got the t-shirts.

I don't know who deleted your thread, but I can ensure you that it was not censorship.

Anyway, this is obviously not directed at Martin, but directed at the OP and others who are wondering... Censorship is entirely the wrong word and concept to apply here. The point is, this is REDUSER.net. There is an Other Cameras forum, hosted over at DVXUSER, which is linked to here. Other camera discussion topics go there. Pretty simple.

Discussions of the 5D, 7D, whatever are acceptable, but only if the discussion itself is relevant to the RED One, RED or other RED products.

It's not about snobbery or restricting the flow of information or censorship. it's about the scope of these forums. This is RED's house. Do you go over to PanasonicUser.net and announce that RED just released Build 30 beta? Yeah...

FWIW, I didn't delete the thread either. I've seen several threads pop up about the 5D firmware update... Big friggin' deal... I can't seem to get exited over it, since it was something that was semi-officially announced over six months ago. Oooh, yay, it's finally here... almost. Sorry, for that, I got carried away. I just spent all day shooting on a 5D2 and I'm not feeling the mojo here. IMO, the HVX200 w/ 35mm adapter produces nicer images, but I digress...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Don't forget that Scarlett is an 2750.-- $ tool and 5D is also a 2600.-- $ tool. Both are DSLR. So discussing progression of the competitor is usefull for the community. Yes we can call it competition even if no raw format is used, 5D is available now and I wish Scarlett will be available soon.

But you can keep deleting Threads, we will keep discussing orther products on REDUSER that could push the REDcommunity.

Patrick

 

[David Rasberry]

The sheer volume of Canon related posts, links to videos and the tiresome repetitive comparison arguments reached a level that was both annoying and inappropriate for this site. Reasonable discourse should certainly be welcome, but it seemed Reduser was attracting too many Canon fans for the wrong reasons.

I like Canon and own Canon products, but I am here because I am interested in a product that is radically different than anything they offer.

 

[Neil Larson]

So anybody know of a good workflow for the 7D?

haha. Just kidding.

I understand why we want to keep the forums focused, but in all honesty I enjoy this forum much more than any other film/video related forum and enjoy hearing what the members have to say.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Every single one of these internet forums is privately owned. We occupy space in them at the discretion of the site owners. All site owners spend a lot of time and energy maintaining the integrity of their sites.

In exchange for this, I believe that we owe them respect, decency - dare I even say gratitude...for creating excellent FREE educational tools.

It is a small price to pay for us to respect their decisions in terms of the content that they wish to promote.

We are all free, at any time, to start and promote our own forums, based on whatever principles we prefer.

The beauty of the web is that no one can really CENSOR anyone. Bandwidth is cheap. There are plenty of places to have all the conversation and chatter that one can imbibe in any single day. Reduser has no obligation to be all things to all users - and with the abundance of other general information sites out there - they don't need to be.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

There's a line between cencorship and editing.

Reduser is edited and moderated.
For the most part we should all be happy for that.

There is a publicly announced policy regarding other cameras.
Then that's not much ground for discussion...

AFAIK there has been no censorship involved in direct comparisons between cameras. Jim has published some considering resolution. Others have published some regarding sensitivity. Those have not been taken down.

 

[Julio Quintana]

Every single one of these internet forums is privately owned. We occupy space in them at the discretion of the site owners. All site owners spend a lot of time and energy maintaining the integrity of their sites.

In exchange for this, I believe that we owe them respect, decency - dare I even say gratitude...for creating excellent FREE educational tools.

I think this is a very valid point.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

The beauty of the web is that no one can really CENSOR anyone. Bandwidth is cheap. There are plenty of places to have all the conversation and chatter that one can imbibe in any single day. Reduser has no obligation to be all things to all users - and with the abundance of other general information sites out there - they don't need to be.

That pretty much sums it up.

The use of the word censorship in this context always baffles me. We are a privately owned website. It is impossible for us to censor anyone. We don't control the internet. Just this space on it that we pay for and offer up to the community and choose to run in a particular way.

 

[Christian Munoz D]

The sheer volume of Canon related posts, links to videos and the tiresome repetitive comparison arguments reached a level that was both annoying and inappropriate for this site. Reasonable discourse should certainly be welcome, but it seemed Reduser was attracting too many Canon fans for the wrong reasons.

I agree David, also Canon still cameras are not professional video cameras, period.
Red One is also not a professional video camera. Red One and related products is part of a professional digital cinematography system far superior to any video camera available today.
Comparison between Canon video footage and Red 4K Raw footage is just ridiculous!

 

[Martin Weiss]

why just killing any news about the Canon Threat?

That Canon is planning on releasing a firmware update hardly constitutes news. Even I have heard about that about 4 months ago and I don't own a 5D.

Also, I don't see Canon as a threat. They make excellent optics and cameras.

don't let REDUSER become another AVID-Like/SONY-Like/ etc... forum.

Is there a Sony forum? I only ask because last time I spent about 20.000 USD on a Sony product, I could not find any forum about that camera. Just to access some general information I had to enter the serial number. Neither have I come across another forum where the engineering and management top regularly visits and interacts.

Scarlett […] and 5D […] Both are DSLR. So discussing progression of the competitor is usefull for the community.

Scarlet is a DSMC http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/
While I can see the value in discussing the progression of a competitor, I can not see value in repeating an already well-publicized announcement.

we will keep discussing orther products on REDUSER that could push the REDcommunity.

Please do.

The sheer volume of Canon related posts, links to videos and the tiresome repetitive comparison arguments reached a level that was both annoying and inappropriate for this site.

Thank you; David put it much better than I ever could.

---

So bottom line: no censorship, but a fair amount of moderating.

Let's move on and shoot amazing footage, on whatever camera. I think we all learn more from shooting even on an iPhone than by academic discussions on what constitutes censorship and how other people really should run their pub.

 

[David Rasberry]

I agree David, also Canon still cameras are not professional video cameras, period.
Red One is also not a professional video camera. Red One and related products is part of a professional digital cinematography system far superior to any video camera available today.
Comparison between Canon video footage and Red 4K Raw footage is just ridiculous!

We share the same viewpoint in this. Red cameras are very unique creative tools. I have had one brief hands on demo with an R1 and spent some time with a few .r3d clips in Redcine, now Redcine-X, learning a bit about the workflow. That is all it took to hook me. Other camera systems aren't very interesting to this old 16mm shooter anymore, at least not anything that is remotely affordable to own.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

There is a publicly announced policy regarding other cameras.

Please send me the policy. I'll obey.

So bottom line: no censorship, but a fair amount of moderating.

Deleting a thread is censorship. Period.

Now best moderatoring is leaving the thread die out naturally as you know. This whole time consuming thread would not have existed if no one had the great idea to kill the "5D..." thread wich was bearly an announcement.

Martin you can take a look at this forum if you want to know what I mean:

http://community.avid.com/forums/

Patrick

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Please send me the policy. I'll obey.

Patrick

I dunno if says so in the statutes yet, but here's a couple of polite pointers from Jim:

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=554720&postcount=5

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=557011&postcount=4

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=557063&postcount=11

I have focused on Jims posts, but the whole threads are still there, burried and undeleted.

I read these as a polite way to explain that RedUser is not the place for these discussions.

We're in Jarreds house and Jim's the king... -

Some will perhaps remember me getting pissed over censorship 2-3 years ago. In my defence, I still think the themes being closed down then were very Red-centric and relevant, and I'd still like to have seen them back then.

But... houserules are houserules.
You either obey or you go...

I cannot see one single post where RED says anything undocumented and bad about the DSLRs, even though you'll have a hard time finding posts from the officials pointing out their stronger sides.

That's only natural. RED is a business.

You - as well as I - know from what have been posted over the DSLRs that these threads don't die. They become noisy, insulting and exaggerated.
The S/N ratio is not very cool IMHO

That said. I appreciated your post. I hadn't heard any stated timeframe on your subject before.
But that might be because I shoot on R1 and not on a 5D...

The relevance is minimal to me...

Cheers!

G

 

[Martin Weiss]

Deleting a thread is [strikethrough]censorship.[/strikethrough]
Deleting a thread is [strike]censorship.[/strike]
Deleting a thread is censorship.
Deleting a thread is [delete]censorship.[/delete]
Deleting a thread is [eradicate]censorship.[/eradicate]
Deleting a thread is [wegdamit]censorship.[/wegdamit]
Deleting a thread is [censor]censorship.[/censor]

Darn, apparently vBulletin does not allow censorship. Guess I have to keep moderating.

[god_mode]test[god_mode]

Was worth a try.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

(Going totally OT)

Gee
I have a would be Demi-God-Would-Be in my extended family.

Good to know on a hard days night.

(Back on topic)

 

[Emanuel A.]

I agree David, also Canon still cameras are not professional video cameras, period.

I follow your point but to my book, a professional device is what brings you an income in your daily business whatever the segment your business is.

E.

 

[David Rasberry]

I follow your point but to my book, a professional device is what brings you an income in your daily business whatever the segment your business is.

E.

Perfection is relative to purpose. There are multiple market opportunities for all of these cameras.

I primarily shoot for fun these days, so applying the term "professional" is irrelevant.

Practical functionality, ergonomics, and image quality are important to me though. The VDSLR's are not up to par as primary motion production cameras in any of these categories. They do offer decent value for the bucks if one is willing to accept a whole host of compromises to use them. I am not.

 

[Emanuel A.]

Perfection is relative to purpose. There are multiple market opportunities for all of these cameras.

100% agreed.