Celere lenses by Hanse Inno Tech

[Erich Roland]

Seems rather redundant when Cooke already makes Mini S4/i's at very good prices. I understand the market for Celere lenses, but if someone wants to integrate a matching yet more affordable prime set into a 'premium set' of S4's, you should probably use the lenses that have the same designers, exact same iris assembly, same coatings, made on the same 100 year old machines, built by the same people in the same factory, etc.

I understand the point, but it seems strange to take the long route on this, unless you own the lenses and just want a different look, which is completely fine. I understand that and even Cooke makes uncoated versions of the Mini S4's for the same reason. Full disclosure, I own Mini's.

You left out aperture in your comparison above. The biggest downside issue with the S4 mini is 2.8. And one of the pluses for this set is 1.5 max opening, as speed is a major factor in primes. Prob 80% of the time I want a prime is for its speed, and sometimes for size/weight. If 2.8 (or above) is acceptable then I'll often just bring a zoom for ease. If the look of these are anywhere close to a Cooke with a 1.5 speed at 4000 per lens, changeable mounts, and front elements, serviceable (not sending to china)..... that's a pretty righteous combination.

Cooke probably could have made the mini set faster like the old Panchro's at 2.3, but I believe they actually handicapped the set to 2.8 to protect the higher priced S4i's. Such is marketing, totally understood.

 

[David Kellermann]

David,

I looked at the Celere lens tests on Vimeo (for example, https://vimeo.com/139648922) and note that the Bokeh looks swirly as opposed to creamy (for example, https://vimeo.com/136223559). Is that Log-C vs. Graded tricking my eyes, or is there as large a difference in bokeh character as these videos suggest?

Here's a rec709 version of the Celere 36 video for better comparison to the Leica Summicron test. The bokeh definitively looks different.

Again, as mentioned earlier, I find it hard to discuss the look of lenses. But some DP I talked to described them as having Leica colours and Zeiss HS bokeh.

 

[jordan levy]

I talked to Lars at Hanse Inno Tech about this. They'll consider offering a short pl mount as an option when purchasing the lenses or as an upgrade for existing users. But there are some (potential) issues:

1) The rear lens element wont be as well protected as it currently is when reducing the PL mount length.
2) The clamp to put nets on the lens wont work.

oh great!
short pl mount, uncoated cooke look!
love to try it!

 

[Brian B]

FWIW I was able to play around with these a couple weeks back. For what they are, I liked them a lot. Good color and characteristics, again, for what they are. Price, size and speed will work very well for the Scarlet-W users in my opinion. My thought is, if you have $20k to spend, and you want to spend it on a brand new set of primes, these are a very good option. I really like the uniform barrel size as well.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Jacek, I'd like to see a link to that statement…I don't believe it's true. The first I heard about any link between Celere and Rokinon was when Dan Kanes brought it up here on RU a year or so ago. I love Dan, and he is a very smart guy...but I think this was just speculation on his part. Steven has told me point-blank it's not true and I see no reason not to believe him.

Thanks Tom,

I would like to publicly say - that my observation of an early prototype 36mm Celere at Hot Rod Cameras very strongly led me to believe that at least in some part the optics came from Rokinon... That's not a bad thing. The iris in the prototype was 100% from a Rokinon, and the pop-on lens cap that I saw at Hot Rod Cameras was a Rokinon Cap... so take that speculation as just an observation from that time.

I would honestly love to try the whole set out with a final housing and design.

They are absolutely stunning cases - even the proto, and the sample footage looks great.

I'll also publicly say - I'm not at all a Fan of the Xeen lenses - if they were $900/lens they would be priced about right.

From what I can see, everything about Celere represents intelligent design decisions - which I am a huge fan of. These guys actually seem to care about what they're making.

 

[M.Halsell]

The lens character almost makes me forget about the breathing. Thank you David K. for sharing those shots. The lens texture is tremendous. I agree with Dan K. 'Celere represents intelligent design decisions'. We purchased a set of Sony Cine Altas. Which chore most of the production duties and keep our cine lense rental needs low-to-manageable. We probably will end up getting the Celere for the pretty 'optical' factor + FF + size.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Thanks Tom,

I would like to publicly say - that my observation of an early prototype 36mm Celere at Hot Rod Cameras very strongly led me to believe that at least in some part the optics came from Rokinon... That's not a bad thing. The iris in the prototype was 100% from a Rokinon, and the pop-on lens cap that I saw at Hot Rod Cameras was a Rokinon Cap... so take that speculation as just an observation from that time.

I would honestly love to try the whole set out with a final housing and design….
From what I can see, everything about Celere represents intelligent design decisions - which I am a huge fan of. These guys actually seem to care about what they're making.

Thanks for clarifying, Dan! I totally agree with you, these guys are really putting their hearts into this product. My limited comparison testing (see link in David's first post in this thread) was very complimentary to the Celeres. I thought they performed exceptionally well optically, and were better than almost all of the competitors mechanically (Xenons still won that category, IMO). All lenses involve compromises, but there is an awful lot to like about the Celeres.

 

[Nick Gardner]

Just because the Rokinons and the others have the same iris doesn't mean they share anything else other than the same supplier of lens diaphragms. It would be silly to have a whole set of tooling and manufacture a lens iris when there are a bunch of suppliers. You should know that, particularly as someone who swore up and down that the Nyrius wasn't the same as your product even though they looked exactly the same and had the same components. Cut them some slack and don't add to the rumor mill when you don't have anything other than pure guesses ;-)

Nick

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Development of 5 high speed full frame quality lens designs would cost about $1m by the time all said and done.
I have been a part of many custom lens designs back in the day. 20 years ago I put a relay together- first article. The glass cost including the test plates was $220K
Do you honestly think that other than big brands that have factories and can sell thousands of sets- anyone would risk that amount of money just to say "me too"?
give me a break....
Not to say that these are not nice lenses. They could be very sound mechanically, some coating on front elements are apparently tweaked.... As Dan said-intelligent, efficient design choices. Nothing wrong with that- I do it all the time. But ground up optical designs? That's a whole different ball game...

 

[Dan Kanes]

I can only go by what I had in my hand, and yes - I've had my feet held to the fire many times in my life, and am still here

Not a roast, just an observation, and certainly not a criticism. Observer and well-wisher here.

Just because the Rokinons and the others have the same iris doesn't mean they share anything else other than the same supplier of lens diaphragms. It would be silly to have a whole set of tooling and manufacture a lens iris when there are a bunch of suppliers. You should know that, particularly as someone who swore up and down that the Nyrius wasn't the same as your product even though they looked exactly the same and had the same components. Cut them some slack and don't add to the rumor mill when you don't have anything other than pure guesses ;-)

Nick

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

Although Hanse Inno Tech won't be specific about where their lenses are being sourced (for obvious reasons), Steven has told me several times that Celere lenses are NOT Rokinon/Xeen-based in any way. That is just a baseless Internet rumor, I'm afraid.

the only way to get rid off rumors is to tell the truth, why thw secrets???

 

[M.Halsell]

the only way to get rid off rumors is to tell the truth, why thw secrets???

The other side of the coin is if people don't know, you keep them guessing. Which produces more media mentions, video views and general conversation, etc, etc. After being around glass long enough, it easy to spot cine vs still. In the case of Celere, probably the later, but optics could be Zeiss, Sigma, Canon, or Rokinon.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

You left out aperture in your comparison above. The biggest downside issue with the S4 mini is 2.8. And one of the pluses for this set is 1.5 max opening, as speed is a major factor in primes. Prob 80% of the time I want a prime is for its speed, and sometimes for size/weight. If 2.8 (or above) is acceptable then I'll often just bring a zoom for ease. If the look of these are anywhere close to a Cooke with a 1.5 speed at 4000 per lens, changeable mounts, and front elements, serviceable (not sending to china)..... that's a pretty righteous combination.

Cooke probably could have made the mini set faster like the old Panchro's at 2.3, but I believe they actually handicapped the set to 2.8 to protect the higher priced S4i's. Such is marketing, totally understood.

Erich, maybe it was lost in my post but I'm wasn't evaluating strengths and weaknesses of each lens set, as they both have strengths and weaknesses. So while a Celere is 1.75 stops faster, (which can be a great use for those who need the speed,) my comments were exclusively in the context of how well they could match the look of S4's.

The poster I was replying to was wondering if Celere with emulated 'cooke' color matched coatings could be integrated into a set of Cooke S4 lenses and match. If using the lenses for a purpose in that context, I made the point that I thought it was a wasted effort to make the Celere's integrate into a set of Cooke S4's versus using the already available Mini S4's because no matter how well they manage to emulate Cooke, it won't be a better match.

However, people use mismatched lenses all the time and if you select carefully, shoot in a way to hide the differences and do some extra post work, most things can look like something else when used sparsely or well. The point is, if matching S4's with a budget set of lenses is the goal and you're not using Mini S4's, your priorities are things other than matching S4's.

That said, my intention was not to rip on the Celere lenses. I feel the Celere lenses definitely have their useful place in the world of budget cinema lenses and I commend the creators of the lenses on their interesting approach with such positive results. We should definitely celebrate the fun options of different lens coatings and the creative choices they offer. That's the real goodness.

 

[David Kellermann]

i know you can switch mounts to EF, but they should really consider the huge advantage of developing them with 5-7mm long pl mounts instead of 10-14mm, so that we can use them with pl adapters on ef cameras.
this will be huge among people using a raven as a b-camera along with a weapon, so we can share the lens set on a production.

Hanse Inno Tech is currently evaluating the option for a shorter PL mount, based on your suggestion to make it compatible to PL-EF adapters.

"An addition to the short survey yesterday, please participate and share! We would like to know more about your mount - preferences."

Hanse Inno Tech's facebook survey

 

[Phil Holland]

You don't need the survey. Yes they should investigate a shorter PL mount. It greatly effects the number of cameras that these lenses can be used on.

But hey, that's my opinion.

 

[Daniel Reed]

This set of glass looks fucking fantastic.

I love the attention to small details (glow-in-the-dark markings, old-school filtration, matched weight from lens-2-lens).

I will definitely consider these moving forward

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I just saw the first episode of Sense8 (Limbic Resonance). Looked like the London interior scenes might have been shot with Celere lenses (based on some bokeh patterns I saw toward the end). True?

 

[David Kellermann]

You don't need the survey. Yes they should investigate a shorter PL mount. It greatly effects the number of cameras that these lenses can be used on.

But hey, that's my opinion.

One feature that many customers love is the possibility to easily use net filters. That option wouldn't exist with a shorter PL mount. I hope that HIT makes the shorter PL mount an option, similar to the current E and EF mounts for the Celere lenses.

 

[Gwen Bertaut]

Hi,

I'd like to buy the 4 lenses package but first I would like to see a R3D RAW image of them performing with weapon or dragon for example.
Anyone on REDuser willing to share R3D RAW pics with me ?

I would highly appreciated your help

Best

 

[ericyoung]

One feature that many customers love is the possibility to easily use net filters. That option wouldn't exist with a shorter PL mount. I hope that HIT makes the shorter PL mount an option, similar to the current E and EF mounts for the Celere lenses.

Can the net holder and/or rear element protection be made as a user removable attachment to a shorter PL mount?