Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon Vs Scarlett and why I held off on the click to order...

I'm hopeful that we may get 50fps at 3K in a firmware update - I thought they said it could do 25fps with HDRx so it may be possible to get those two extra frames per second without it.

I'm happy to shoot 25fps 4K though...
 
i'm pretty sure you'll be able to get 50fps at 3k, probably just an oversight. this was all thrown together at the last minute, and sad to say, we don't think a whole lot about PAL besides 24/25. but if i know red, you'll be taken care of.

as far as the windowed sensor or crop factor, it's going to be very similar to what some are used to shooting on 7d's - wouldn't worry too much about that, just be aware of the way it works and what lenses you need. maybe there's an app or something to calculate focal length adjustments based on resolution? if not, somebody do it please!

EDIT: here's the approximate calculations (somebody double check me) these crop factors are based on FF35
@ 5k - 1.2 (50mm = 60mm)
@ 4k - 1.6 (50mm = 80mm)
@ 3k - 3.5 (50mm = 175mm)

shooting at 4k is just like shooting on any APS-C sensor (i.e. 7d)

on a side note, i'd like to see them push for some 4.5k at 24/25
 
paulherrin said:
on a side note, i'd like to see them push for some 4.5k at 24/25
Click to expand...

Yeah that would be great.

I can see why people would want the Canon camera. It really does make pretty pictures. But I can't believe the price of this camera. You can get a working Scarlet-X (without lenses of course - but that's just like the Canon and a lot of people already have those lenses anyway) at almost two thirds of the price.
 
Jon Thomasberg said:
While not an exhaustive comparison: 1) c300 is a 4:2:2 8-bit compressed image at 50Mbps (that is megaBITS), Scarlet is Redcode RAW at 55MBps (megaBYTES = 440Mbits) = lots more information AND in RAW; 2) If you want to shoot for 1080 out, you have still way more options on the Scarlet to get there a) shoot 3k at 4:1 RAW and then crop in if you choose to, or have safe area for post stabilization for any shaky handheld without having to upres to get your 1080, OR 2k@25fps RC3:1 -- C300 @1080 up to 30fps, so in your case 25. No wiggle room without upres for crops or stabilization. Want 60fps? Scarlet can shoot it at 2k RC4:1; c300 @720.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people fail to understand just HOW important RAW is... For the world of me, I completely fail to understand why on earth RED is the ONLY company understanding this...

I know a LOT of professional photographers that shoot in JPEG and when I ask them why, they say - It looks just as good as RAW... I say... Yeah... But ONLY if you are planning on keeping the looks of the image exactly as it came from the camera.
Once I explain to them what RAW is and does... Then all of a sudden they all shoot in RAW and then convert to JPEG.

Whatever magic codec Canon has put in the 300 - It aint NEVER going to yield esthetics of footage shot in RAW...
Althought Mobius short looked nice.

Anyway, to me... The Scarlettx is the winner in all categories. ALL.
 
paulherrin said:
i'm pretty sure you'll be able to get 50fps at 3k, probably just an oversight. this was all thrown together at the last minute, and sad to say, we don't think a whole lot about PAL besides 24/25. but if i know red, you'll be taken care of.

as far as the windowed sensor or crop factor, it's going to be very similar to what some are used to shooting on 7d's - wouldn't worry too much about that, just be aware of the way it works and what lenses you need. maybe there's an app or something to calculate focal length adjustments based on resolution? if not, somebody do it please!

EDIT: here's the approximate calculations (somebody double check me) these crop factors are based on FF35
@ 5k - 1.2 (50mm = 60mm)
@ 4k - 1.6 (50mm = 80mm)
@ 3k - 3.5 (50mm = 175mm)

shooting at 4k is just like shooting on any APS-C sensor (i.e. 7d)

on a side note, i'd like to see them push for some 4.5k at 24/25
Click to expand...

http://www.abelcine.com/fov/ - this is very useful for camera/sensor & FOV comparisons...
 
I had the same issue re slowmo strobing. Short answer: yes - if you have cheap flouros we're going to get some.
I am somewhat terrified about those crop factors. At 2K that 50mm must be over 200mm! My 11mm zoom is going to get some work.....
 
Eric Rodemann said:
C300 has xlr inputs if I'm not mistaken. That's a big plus for someone shooting with little or no crew.
Click to expand...

IF I can get someone form RED to confirm this, Scarlet comes with touch screen focus and possibly auto tracking follow focus. Think of all the time and money saved having to deal with pulling focus properly. You won't need a focus puller anymore. You can perform complex shots with you as the director/camera man/focus puller.
 
Hi Arash,

I think it's unlikely that any machine will ever be able to replace the skill, intuition and creative work that a focus puller can do. Not to mention the having the reflexes to react to an actors movement. I can't imediately think of any useful situations where autofocus will be particularly useful... maybe something will come to me :-)
 
Adam Howden said:
The Scarlett-X records 3K at up to 48 fps - Great. BUT for those of us in PAL countries we need 50 fps...

For example if you're on a production using HMIs and Fluro's and you want to go off speed then you really want to be able to go to at least 50 fps, am I right here.
Click to expand...

Please correct me if I am wrong, but are you mixing up shutter speed w/ frame rate?... i.e if concerned about flicker due to lighting setups, you'll want multiples of a 1/50 shutter speed (1/50, 1/100, 1/200) at any frame rate in Europe, and of 1/60 multiples in the States (1/60, 1/120, 1/240)... or am I wrong here?

I'm basing the above statement on the old Europe 50Hz vs the States 60Hz AC cycle "pulse" scenario - the notion that the electrical cycle "pulse" leads to visible flicker if using fast "burn" lighting sources.

Jim/Jarred/Red Team, what are the available shutter speeds on Scarlet-X? I suspect it may be the same as on Epic...

...if the shutter options are the same, please refer to page 36 of the Epic Operation Guide manual. It shows how the the default shutter can be changed and includes 1/50 as an option. Additionally, shooting 4k @ 25fps should automatically set the shutter speed at 1/50 by default.

The Epic Manuals are also available as a zipped PDF collection here:
https://www.red.com/support/all/downloads/24/release_history/128


Thank You
 
Last edited:
Andy White said:
http://www.abelcine.com/fov/ - this is very useful for camera/sensor & FOV comparisons...
Click to expand...

i made this for greater relevance on the crop factor we're looking at... see the thread for more. imagine the picture is the sensor, each little box is how much is being used for the given resolution. no exceptions. it's the same as if you cropped in during post, except that you can record higher framerates and/or better compression because there is less image data to read/write.

attachment.php

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?65973-Crop-Factor-Demystified
 
Jon Thomasberg said:
While not an exhaustive comparison: 1) c300 is a 4:2:2 8-bit compressed image at 50Mbps (that is megaBITS), Scarlet is Redcode RAW at 55MBps (megaBYTES = 440Mbits) = lots more information AND in RAW; 2) If you want to shoot for 1080 out, you have still way more options on the Scarlet to get there a) shoot 3k at 4:1 RAW and then crop in if you choose to, or have safe area for post stabilization for any shaky handheld without having to upres to get your 1080, OR 2k@25fps RC3:1 -- C300 @1080 up to 30fps, so in your case 25. No wiggle room without upres for crops or stabilization. Want 60fps? Scarlet can shoot it at 2k RC4:1; c300 @720.
Click to expand...

While I prefer the Scarlet RAW and 2k @ 60fps to the Canon compression and 720p @ 60fps... the Canon does not crop when you have to shoot a smaller format. What if you need a wide slow shot? It would be nice if the Scarlet even line skipped to get a larger portion of the sensor at 2k. Pretty much my only critique of the camera though... the crop factor. Too bad it doesn't just down convert... I don't know how all that works though so maybe its not possible, but Canon does it...
 
Hey Daniel,

I think you make a good point about the shutter speed Vs frame rate thing, I do understand the difference and maybe this is a good solution. Although it does just seem like yet another work around to add to the list.

On another note, 'Down Rezing' the whole sensor Epic style would be AMAZING. However, as someone mentioned maybe in this thread or perhaps in another I suspect that you would need the processing power of something close to the Epic ASICs to through put and process that amount data.

The crop factor is a big consideration for me personally and one of my main issues with the Red One/R1MX and now the Scarlett. The Epic is a really great camera, no doubt but I'm not convinced by the Scarlett yet.

I would happily accept a more compressed RAW in exchange for some higher frame rates :-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top