Canon Lens vs Cine lens, Red Lens Advice Seeked

[AndreasOberg]

With the eminent price reduction of Red Epic it seems like I will have a bit more money to invest. Hopefully this will be enough to get some cine lenses and here I need your advice.
I know everything about Canon lenses for still, but very little about cine lenses.

How are the Red Primes compared to the canon lenses for doing commercials, short movies etc?

The options I see I have
Canon Lenses
+ cheaper
+ image stabilizer so good for hand held
+ good image quality
+ lighter
+ can have very big apperture. 1.2 or 1.4. great!
- hard to focus pull with. I read that the image may not be stable when you pull so it's shaky
- problem with focus marks
- doesn't fit follow focuses
- doesnt fit matte boxes as well
- makes you look a bit less pro

Red Lenses
+ very sharp
+ cine quality. so great focus and fluid change of apperture
+ cheap for being cine lenses
+ apperture. 1.8 for almost all. great
- heavy. 3kg each so tougher for hand held
- no image stabilizer
- no weather sealing I think
- cost more

Zeiss Compact Prime
I dont know so much how they compare to Red. price is similar.
- slower aperture. I really dislike when they go up to 2.9


Also how important is it to have a zoom. Should I go all for primes?

Right now the Red Primes sounds very interesting. One of the reason is I'm aiming for getting the Dragon update for "free" so I need to fill up 50k in my order so I can't buy other lenses within that range.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
/Andreas

 

[Björn Benckert]

Before you buy into anything, rent all of them atleast onces first. It does not cost much. I promise you that no matter how many reply's you get on this thread, none of them will be as valid as your own trial and error experience. In the end it's up to you and the way you work.

Then when you figured out what lenses fits your shooting the best then if money/investment is an issue you have to take that into calculation also. things like: are you going to rent out these lenses? what lenses is all ready available in your area? Is there a rental shop that can house the lenses for you or would you be a straight competitor to the rental houses around? Or can you strike a deal with them and let them sub rent so every one can benefit?

Personally I would pretty much hatch out the EF lenses and put FD lenses there instead. They are better made, comes at far lower prices and has decent manual focus.

 

[Dave Blackham]

nses and put FD lenses there instead. They are better made, comes at far lower prices and has decent manual focus.

Bjorn is correct about this. FD is much prefered for build quality and manual operation.

Also I would check with Red about Red lens coverage for Dragon. I beleive the image circle may not cover 6k, I dont know about 5k either. Red Primes are very nice lenses though but a little on the large side.

 

[AndreasOberg]

Thanks for the tip guys. I haven't thought about the FD lenses for Red.

Yes, trying the lenses would of course be the best but it's a bit hard when I haven't even purchased the camera yet. I wouldn't mind popping by your Syndicate office if you don't mind

From what I have read today it sounds like the Red Primes will be my best option to start with. But as far as I understand many of the lense are back ordered currently. I think I will buy something like 3 lenses to start with. Probably
19, 35
Trick is there is no lense in the 100mm range for sale, only lens is the 300mm which is a bit extreme but would be quite cool to have in the jungle with all the animals.

Best
/Andreas

 

[AndreasOberg]

I'm wondering about zooms. The Red 18-85 is not so expensive when bought used.
On my DSLRs I accepted that I can't zoom since I loose focus on most lenses. How useful is it to be able to zoom in general?

Benefits I can see are of course:
- you can change to different lenses by "zooming"
- you can also live zoom, which I dont see so often on movies

Downsides I see are:
- very heavy
- less light but still pretty good

Cheers!
/Andreas

 

[Dave Blackham]

The 18 50 is not stellar but its also not as bad as made out in some posts. Live zoom in shot isnt a popular technique these days. If you can get a true zoom that is para focal ie holds focus through out the zoom range then thats much better option or you can treat the zoom as a variable prime which is also perfectly valid. If you can find a good still zoom and use it as a variable prime then it might be useful for you. Red cameras have various focus assist tools to assist.

 

[Will Keir]

rent all of them at least onces first.

Listen to this man, he knows what he's doing.

 

[Will Keir]

Andreas, buy used and have them check out by a camera house before the sale. Lenses retain their value and quality for decades.

Thanks for the tip guys. I haven't thought about the FD lenses for Red.

Yes, trying the lenses would of course be the best but it's a bit hard when I haven't even purchased the camera yet. I wouldn't mind popping by your Syndicate office if you don't mind

From what I have read today it sounds like the Red Primes will be my best option to start with. But as far as I understand many of the lense are back ordered currently. I think I will buy something like 3 lenses to start with. Probably
19, 35
Trick is there is no lense in the 100mm range for sale, only lens is the 300mm which is a bit extreme but would be quite cool to have in the jungle with all the animals.

Best
/Andreas

 

[Will Keir]

ZOOM lenses are great and will save you a lot of time in almost all situations.

They have their drawbacks:

- Low light sensitivity. A T3 lens in a dark forest/jungle will be dropping close to the noise floor at wide open. You can get good results, as we did yesterday, but you're pushing it. Noise in the shadows could creep in.
- Heavier
- Tend to be less sharp than Primes.

I'm wondering about zooms. The Red 18-85 is not so expensive when bought used.
On my DSLRs I accepted that I can't zoom since I loose focus on most lenses. How useful is it to be able to zoom in general?

Benefits I can see are of course:
- you can change to different lenses by "zooming"
- you can also live zoom, which I dont see so often on movies

Downsides I see are:
- very heavy
- less light but still pretty good

Cheers!
/Andreas

 

[AndreasOberg]

Andreas, buy used and have them check out by a camera house before the sale. Lenses retain their value and quality for decades.

Thanks for the advice Will. Yes T3 in the jungle will not be much fun I fear. Last time I photographed in the jungle I struggled all the time with getting enough light and I can only imagine it's going to get worse with cinema. (but more fun!)
I have seen several on this forum selling complete collections of Red Primes for quite good prices so it may be the way to go.
Is it possible to buy individual primes from people or does almost everyone sell a complete kit?
Would be perfect to buy a few used ones directly from Red and then add more later, but maybe that option doesn't exist. Would be a very bad move to buy a few and then not be able to sell them later or buy more to get a complete kit.

Renting sounds wise but it's very expensive in Sweden and would have been much easier in UK. To rent an Epic an a full set of Red Primes would cost about $2000-2500 for one day, that is almost the cost of a lens cost for ONE day rental.

The Red Primes still sounds like the best bet but I'm still reading up. As I understand almost as sharp as the Ultra Primes, biggest problem is that they are heavy.
I am a bit worried that Red may not produce more lenses in this range. I hope they are not leaving the lens market...
/Andreas

 

[Will Keir]

Maybe someone would your area has a set. Post on the board and your local market place. You might find the other party willing to let you test the set and buy them at a used price.

Save yourself some money buying used RPPs, have the lens evaluated, then you are good.

Thanks for the advice Will. Yes T3 in the jungle will not be much fun I fear. Last time I photographed in the jungle I struggled all the time with getting enough light and I can only imagine it's going to get worse with cinema. (but more fun!)
I have seen several on this forum selling complete collections of Red Primes for quite good prices so it may be the way to go.
Is it possible to buy individual primes from people or does almost everyone sell a complete kit?
Would be perfect to buy a few used ones directly from Red and then add more later, but maybe that option doesn't exist. Would be a very bad move to buy a few and then not be able to sell them later or buy more to get a complete kit.

Renting sounds wise but it's very expensive in Sweden and would have been much easier in UK. To rent an Epic an a full set of Red Primes would cost about $2000-2500 for one day, that is almost the cost of a lens cost for ONE day rental.

The Red Primes still sounds like the best bet but I'm still reading up. As I understand almost as sharp as the Ultra Primes, biggest problem is that they are heavy.
I am a bit worried that Red may not produce more lenses in this range. I hope they are not leaving the lens market...
/Andreas

 

[brian mcclatchy]

Personally I would pretty much hatch out the EF lenses and put FD lenses there instead. They are better made, comes at far lower prices and has decent manual focus.[/QUOTE]

how are you mounting the Canon FD lenses? do you use an adapter to EOS? does that work well mechanically?

 

[Dave Blackham]

You could also consider Leica R. More expensive than FD glass and have a more 3D feel top the image.

 

[AndreasOberg]

Good advice Will. Will try to buy used ones and will see if anyone lives in Stockholm.
Do you think it's possible to assemble a set lens by lens or would that be near impossible. Will be very tight to get the money for a full set.
/Andreas

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Optitek Canon FD mount for Epic

Optitek Canon FD mount for Epic

Here you go in case you wanted to use FD lenses- we made the mount for Epic.
Another advantage of FD mount is that is a positive locking mount like PL unlike the flimsy EF "friction/pressure based bayonet typical for still cameras. Especially the older "breech" FD mount .
FYI a list of FD lenses below
Check out the pics- looks right on Epic :yesnod:
FD lenses
The original generation of FD lenses featured a silver locking ring at the base. Only that locking ring turns to lock the lens to the camera body; the lens body remains still.[9]
[edit]Fisheye
7.5mm f/5.6
7.5mm f/5.6 S.S.C.
15mm f/2.8 S.S.C.
[edit]Wide-angle
17mm f/4
17mm f/4 S.S.C.
20mm f/2.8 S.S.C.
24mm f/1.4 S.S.C. Aspherical
24mm f/2.8
24mm f/2.8 S.S.C.
28mm f/2 S.S.C.
28mm f/2.8 S.C.
28mm f/3.5
28mm f/3.5 S.C.
35mm f/2
35mm f/2 I
35mm f/2 II
35mm f/2 III
35mm f/2 S.S.C. I
35mm f/2 S.S.C. II
TS 35mm f/2.8 S.S.C.
35mm f/3.5
35mm f/3.5 S.C. I
35mm f/3.5 S.C. II
35mm f/3.5 S.C. III
[edit]Normal


The common FD 50mm f/1.8 S.C.
50mm f/1.4
50mm f/1.4 S.S.C. (I)
50mm f/1.4 S.S.C. (II)
50mm f/1.8 (I)
50mm f/1.8 (II)
50mm f/1.8 S.C. (I)
50mm f/1.8 S.C. (II)
Macro 50mm f/3.5 S.S.C.
55mm f/1.2
55mm f/1.2 AL
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C.
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. AL
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical
[edit]Telephoto
85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical
85mm f/1.8 S.S.C.
100mm f/2.8
100mm f/2.8 S.S.C.
Macro 100mm f/4 S.C.
135mm f/2.5
135mm f/2.5 S.C.
135mm f/3.5
135mm f/3.5 S.C. (I)
135mm f/3.5 S.C. (II)
200mm f/2.8 S.S.C.
200mm f/4
200mm f/4 S.S.C.
300mm f/2.8 S.S.C. Fluorite
300mm f/4 S.S.C.
300mm f/4L
300mm f/5.6
300mm f/5.6 S.C.
300mm f/5.6 S.S.C.
400mm f/4.5 S.S.C.
500mm f/4.5L
Reflex 500mm f/8 S.S.C.
600mm f/4.5 S.S.C.
800mm f/5.6 S.S.C.
800mm f/5.6L
800mm f/3.8 Mirror [10]
2000mm f/11 Mirror [10]
5200mm f/14 Mirror [10]
[edit]Zoom
24-35mm f/3.5 S.S.C. Aspherical
28-50mm f/3.5 S.S.C.
35-70mm f/2.8-3.5 S.S.C.
80-200mm f/4 S.S.C.
85-300mm f/4.5 S.S.C
100-200mm f/5.6
100-200mm f/5.6 S.S.C.
[edit]Macrophoto lenses

These lenses could only be used attached to a macro bellows; since they can't mount to a camera directly, they are not properly FD lenses, but are listed here because they are part of the whole system.[11]
Macrophoto Lens 20mm f/2.8
Macrophoto Lens 35mm f/2.8
[edit]

 

[AndreasOberg]

Hyia, I'm still debating what lenses to get. The Red Primes feel the best. What I'm considering is this:
- get the 18,35mm and 300mm from the Red store. 2 are used so very affordable.

My biggest concern is that I may not be able to find the other lenses for sale later when I need them. Red isn't selling them and I haven't found anyone selling primes from split sets.
Do you guys think I will be able to find primes later? I'm not in a super hurry so could probably wait a year with the 100mm or so.
Thanks!
/Andreas