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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon CN Primes vs the new Zeiss Superspeeds

Thomas Koch said:
I would love to see someone do this type of testing with cinema lenses so we can see apples to apple what the lenses are like. I use that site, and bought the Rokinon 35mm lens as it bests even the ziess ZE.
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The Zeiss 15mm absolutely blows away the Tokina 11-16 at 15mm in terms of resolution and lack of CA. Check it out:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=474&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=0\


However, it also confirms that the Zeiss 50/1.4 is an absolute dog. Don't even know why they bother to sell that thing. Really deserves to be updated. The Zeiss 50m F2 also blows it out of the water. Too bad the CP.2 version is the size of a small house. Absolutely ridiculous, can't even fully macro focus with the thing because it's own lens housing gets in the way of it's actual minimum distance.
 
The rumor on the net is Canon is presently redesigning their 35mm f1.4 L series lens so no point designing the Cinema 35mm on the soon to be replaced older design. Therefore when the 35mm L series arrives you could "expect" the Cinema version would soon follow? This is not Canons official position and unsure if this is based on any real evidence
 
Matt Ryan said:
Definitely test for CA.

The CP.2's have a lot of CA so I'm curious if the new Cp.2 SuperSpeeds are the same. Here's some shots from Cp.2's: (right click, open in a new tab to view full size)
Screen-Shot-2012-07-09-at-6.04.24-PM.png

A005_C007_0813VX.0000448.jpg

338324_2456470248202_1145487293_32976890_1230880580_o.jpg
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CA is annoying, but I think in reality you hardly notice it with such lovely, punchy images as those! There's a reason the stills versions of those lenses are so highly coveted in the photography world. I think they look lovely - and what's great about cinema lenses is that the only way is up from that point on.
 
Tom Gleeson said:
I would buy a set of the Canon Primes in a heartbeat BUT for the lack of the 35mm focal length. I spoke with Canon and they communicated with Japan directly on this issue and the response was there is no 35mm lens in development. Only a 14mm and 135mm have been announced for next year. Canon is aware of the problem/issue but no "official" committement.

I cannot believe they will sell too many sets of lenses with such an odd collection of focal lengths so whether motivates them to try and fill the gaps or puts them off will remain to be seen. Fingers crossed.
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Just because you don't get "official" confirmation - it does not mean they aren't working on (or already have a prototype of) one...
Japanese are notorious for not giving official confirmation on things in development. I know - not only I live here, I have a reasonably close relationship with Canon (especially the lens division) and couple of others from the "big-5"...
Do not underestimate Canon, or anyone else, just because of lacking "confirmed official" info...

Peter
 
Peter,

I agree with your observations but still hard to invest serious money in the Canon Digital Primes without the 35mm. It will probably come but I am not a gambling man. My insider said the lens division were flat out preparing a new wide zoom lens and presently did not have the resources for the 35mm focal length but it was a lens that they knew alot of people were asking for. Apart from the Canon lens design team nobody really knows.
 
Matt,

Any experience yet with the New CP2 Super Speeds? I'm curious too.

Matt Ryan said:
Thats good to hear. Im curious how the new SuperSpeeds handle it as well.
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That's crazy in the same batch there can be such a swing. Thanks for the lesson.

What lens exactly are you talking about? CP2 or Zeiss ZE (or ZF?) 35mm and 50mm? Is the glass the same on these lenses, just cine housing vs still?

Nick Morrison said:
Yup that new Zeiss 35mm f2 is considered a remarkable piece of engineering. In the stills world, it's fast becoming a thing of legend. Its frequently talked about as an all crushing, all slaying piece of glass to which many others are helplessly compared.
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Will Keir said:
That's crazy in the same batch there can be such a swing. Thanks for the lesson.

What lens exactly are you talking about? CP2 or Zeiss ZE (or ZF?) 35mm and 50mm? Is the glass the same on these lenses, just cine housing vs still?
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The Zeiss ZF/ZE/CP2 35mm F2 is by all accounts SUPERB. I've never used it personally, but it's reputation precedes it. It's the same design for all of them, except the CP2 glass is reportedly "hand picked" and presumably flawless. And obviously the CP2 has cine-housing.
 
Is that the same case with the new CP2 Super Speeds?

Is this only a cine lens or is there a super speed still version?

Nick Morrison said:
The Zeiss ZF/ZE/CP2 35mm F2 is by all accounts SUPERB. I've never used it personally, but it's reputation precedes it. It's the same design for all of them, except the CP2 glass is reportedly "hand picked" and presumably flawless. And obviously the CP2 has cine-housing.
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Interesting test. A thought.
How do you guys remove CA in post production (as much that can be removed). I got the best results by bringing photage into Lightroom since it has a superb CA. However the workflow is NOT fast since its mainly a still photo program so I'm hoping there is something faster.

Best
Andreas
 
I split channels in Apple Color's FX room, scale accordingly and re-join them.
 
Brendan Isaac said:
How did this test go?
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Test are done but I have not even able to publish the test results as the ACS webmaster is on Holiday but is due back on the 27th. There is a video review you can watch on the ACS Vimeo channel at https://vimeo.com/austcine but the supporting material may be unavailable untill the end of the week
 
Nice work Tom. Canon is working on the 35mm. It's slow going for a couple reasons. We'll see a prototype in the next couple months and likely by NAB you'll be able to touch the lens. The CN-E prototypes are basically made "by hand" and reverse engineered for mass manufacturing. There was a moment where there was only one 50mm and 85mm in the world for people to test before they started pumping them out.

As far as I can tell between the prototype 85mm and the production ready 85mm they fixed the image shift I saw when racking, which is a good thing. The Canon CN-E 50mm T1.3 you tested at 5.6 seems a bit odd. I don't get those results with the EF 50mm f/1.2L, which is like you said at it's core the same lens with different coatings. If I have a moment during this holiday I'll shoot you a 5K image off my distortion chart.

I'm a bit uneasy about Canon not provided a PL solution for the primes. That's certainly a plus for the Zeiss lenses.

It's going to be fun to put the CN-E 14mm T3.1 against the CP.2 15mm T2.9. That 15mm Zeiss is a damn good lens.

Once the full sets are all out we need to do a Canon, Zeiss, and Rokinon shoot out. It would be nice to have a cost, quality, and performance breakdown. Rokinon's 85mm is now here. Just waiting on that Canon 35mm. Wide open, I'm not in love with the Rokinon 35mm but I have no problem shooting wide open with the Canon 35mm f/1.4L.

As of this moment, with Red continuing their support for "one camera any lens" concept I'm actually thinking about building a mixed Canon/Zeiss EF cine set. I don't rent my gear out to others, but if that's a concern, I would focus on creating a PL set for the time being.

There are rumors that we'll be seeing another manufacturer stepping up the the cinema glass plate next year too. More options, more stuff to test.

We're going to need to be careful walking around NAB 2013. I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of glass one the floor.
 
Interesting that the 50mm looks to be the weak point in both the Canon CN and Zeiss CP lines. As traditionally, in the stills world, the 50 is the easiest and the cheapest one, to make good. (The RPP 50mm is excellent!)

The Canons are looking more and more tempting. I reckon the updated stills version of the 35/1.4 will be out soon, and the cine version will follow.
 
The 50 and 85mm are still good lenses for their price but I suspect they are being shown up by the awesome Canon 24mm. In Canons defense I did test the Canon 50 and 85 at T1.3 and the Zeiss's at T1.5 when I should have added a T1.5 and a T1.9 to the Canon charts for an equal comparison. No doubt also that RedPro primes are good glass but they are slower than these lenses so would need to be compared at identical stops. If not for there size and weight I would be a proud owner.

I am hoping the 35mm is as good as the 24mm. Phil thanks for your inside track as my contacts in Canon could not supply me with any direct information.



I prefer my wides tack sharp as they tend to the more landscape fine detail shots and the longer lenses are often shooting faces where tack sharp is less an advantage. But seriously you have to be pixel peeping to begin to see the lenses weakness
 
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