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Canon CN-E vs Leica R rehoused

Arthur Woo

Arthur Woo

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I'm looking to upgrade to entry level cinema glass. I have a set of Contax Zeiss lenses which I love, but also want an alternate set with bigger focus throws and cinema housing. Looking at the Canon CN-E and GL Optics rehoused Leica R summicrons (I rarely find myself shooting at f/1.4).

I have around 10 EF mounted lenses so with the CN-E I could swap if necessary. With the PL Leicas, I wouldn't have that flexibility.

I've handled and shot tests with the CN-Es and they are nice. Don't know the build quality for the GL Optics - anyone with experience that can chime in? I love the painterly look of Leica R bokeh more than Canon Bokeh.

Already ruled out CP.2 and Xenons due to personal preference. I would love to own Cooke Mini S4s but they're more than I want to spend, and I like the option of going to f/2. I am only wanting these lenses as a personal set, not to rent out.

Thoughts on my next set of glass?
 
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I was in this decision lately and went for the Canon CN-E. Mainly because I got a hell of a price reduction on a set of four and that I couldn't really get highly positive feedback about the built quality of the GLs, even got a few negative notes from people who had issues. I feel that getting a big brand set is the best way to go. The Leicas are really nice glass, probably better and nicer looking than the CN-E but the Canons are super fast and technically better than the Zeiss CP2s and all others in the same price range. You can't get full frame lenses at T1.3 for anything cheaper that looks as good as they do.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I was in this decision lately and went for the Canon CN-E. Mainly because I got a hell of a price reduction on a set of four and that I couldn't really get highly positive feedback about the built quality of the GLs, even got a few negative notes from people who had issues. I feel that getting a big brand set is the best way to go. The Leicas are really nice glass, probably better and nicer looking than the CN-E but the Canons are super fast and technically better than the Zeiss CP2s and all others in the same price range. You can't get full frame lenses at T1.3 for anything cheaper that looks as good as they do.
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Thanks Christoffer! I saw your posts the other day when I was doing research on the rehoused Leicas, didn't see anyone posting anything about them though. Good to know what you said about them. Where is this price reduction? LOL. I do LOVE the Leica look. I was considering getting more Leitax EF Leicas but due to the amount of use my Contax lenses are getting on shoots, I'm starting to look for something a little more durable for hours and hours of use on production. They're perfect for small jobs where pulling focus isn't a constant thing, but as they get tossed in bags and knocked around here and there as they do w/ ACs and other assistants, I'm looking at something that can stand up to the abuse.
 
I'm loving the canons as well. I did a shoot recently with S4s and actually found myself missing the CNEs. Sharp, well built, full coverage at 6k, relitivly affordable. You need to be carful wide open as with any lens, but I'd rather have the option of 1.4.
The only downside is there is no great wide in the set. There is the 14mm 3.1 but we really need something in the 18-20 range.
the new sigma 20mm might just fill that void nicely, especially if a company decided to rehouse it with the cne dimentions . All this being said, those liecas do have something magical going on.
 
That's a tough choice.

I have a collection of cinemod Leicas - 19, 24, 28, 35, 50, 60, 90, 100, 135, 180 and have a learned a lot in assembling them.

I've had to swap out a lot of lenses to find a set that matches - and I've got a long way to go. It makes me a little nervous that the rehoused version from GL wouldn't quite match.

I am also quite impressed with the SALT III performance of the CN-Es.

And while Leica is, well, Leica - it's not like they have a corner on the market of great glass.

My vote is that if the lack of lens selection won't frustrate you too much, the Canons are the better option.

That said, I personally plan to complete my Leica set and rehouse them.

I guess I'm not taking my own advice...

Not a very convincing argument, I guess.
 
the future is active mounts communicating with the camera, canon's have that.
i was blown away by the way the cooke anamorphics gave complete lens data on the AC's and Directors monitor…
 
That's a fair point - though probably less an issue for a personal set.

It certainly speaks to the safety of the investment, though.
 
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jordan levy said:
the future is active mounts communicating with the camera, canon's have that.
i was blown away by the way the cooke anamorphics gave complete lens data on the AC's and Directors monitor…
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a bonus, good for VFX work as the lens data is all in the metadata.
 
Arthur Woo said:
I'm looking to upgrade to entry level cinema glass. I have a set of Contax Zeiss lenses which I love, but also want an alternate set with bigger focus throws and cinema housing. Looking at the Canon CN-E and GL Optics rehoused Leica R summicrons (I rarely find myself shooting at f/1.4).

I have around 10 EF mounted lenses so with the CN-E I could swap if necessary. With the PL Leicas, I wouldn't have that flexibility.

I've handled and shot tests with the CN-Es and they are nice. Don't know the build quality for the GL Optics - anyone with experience that can chime in? I love the painterly look of Leica R bokeh more than Canon Bokeh.

Already ruled out CP.2 and Xenons due to personal preference. I would love to own Cooke Mini S4s but they're more than I want to spend, and I like the option of going to f/2. I am only wanting these lenses as a personal set, not to rent out.

Thoughts on my next set of glass?
Click to expand...

What is it about the Zeiss Contax glass that you love, that doesn't carry through to the CP.2s Arthur? The Canons are nice, I'd put them very much on par with the CP.2s and Xenons rather than above them (superior quality seems more a function of price than brand at the entry level of cinema glass) but that's not a bad thing, all of these lenses do great work for the price.

The EF mount of the Canons is a bit sucky, a positive-locking mount really does help. But the glass is good. Only real downside is that it's not readily matched with zooms lenses outside of Canon's own range.
 
Mark K. said:
What is it about the Zeiss Contax glass that you love, that doesn't carry through to the CP.2s Arthur? The Canons are nice, I'd put them very much on par with the CP.2s and Xenons rather than above them (superior quality seems more a function of price than brand at the entry level of cinema glass) but that's not a bad thing, all of these lenses do great work for the price.

The EF mount of the Canons is a bit sucky, a positive-locking mount really does help. But the glass is good. Only real downside is that it's not readily matched with zooms lenses outside of Canon's own range.
Click to expand...

After testing, the CP.2s doesn't really stand well against the CN-Es. The Zeiss has a magenta shift all over, more CA and breathe a lot more. They are also slower which means getting a better picture at T3.0 that stands on par with the CN-Es at T1.9 is really not good.

I agree with the EF mount, but the locking mechanism on the Red EF mount is really healping.
 
Mark K. said:
What is it about the Zeiss Contax glass that you love, that doesn't carry through to the CP.2s Arthur? The Canons are nice, I'd put them very much on par with the CP.2s and Xenons rather than above them (superior quality seems more a function of price than brand at the entry level of cinema glass) but that's not a bad thing, all of these lenses do great work for the price.

The EF mount of the Canons is a bit sucky, a positive-locking mount really does help. But the glass is good. Only real downside is that it's not readily matched with zooms lenses outside of Canon's own range.
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Contax glass is less contrasty than the cp2s and has a different look. They also flare in a way I love due to the older coating. Cp2s are okay and usable, not $5k though (super speeds). I've shot a few projects on them and wasn't blown away by the image unlike something like Cooke where it was a little more obvious that the glass was enhancing the image. I would prefer PL as the EF mount is a little flimsy, but I can always send the lenses to Duclos for mod if necessary (Prob not though)
 
Arthur Woo said:
as the EF mount is a little flimsy
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This comes up alot and I agree that PL is much smoother on set, but the secondary locking on the Red EF mount, have you tried it?
 
I would take Contax most days over the CP2s or ZE/ZFs. I'm curious to know if the coatings have changed on the Milvus.

+1 The RED EF mount is pretty solid. We've had some pretty big lenses on it in with no issues.
 
Yes I use it all the time! I haven't had problems with it. However, comparing it to the PL mount, an EF mount that relies on that small metal tab makes me weary of heavy use over time, vs the beefy PL mount that has 4 tabs. I've had ACs forgetful of the lock pull off the lens with the regular EF mount even when the RED EF lock has been engaged (though admittedly, not tightly engaged).
 
can you control focus and fstop on those canons through the camera when mounted? or just get the meta data?
 
All the electronics and communication advantages aside, I absolutely love the Leica R lenses.
Aren't the Cp.2's rehoused distagon lenses anyway ? or at least share the same glass and coating ?
I did a small shoot yesterday where I tested my 60mm Leica R macro against my 100mm Zeiss distagon and the performance of the Leica just blew me away once again in terms of sharpness and rendition.
 
Dominik Muench said:
All the electronics and communication advantages aside, I absolutely love the Leica R lenses.
Aren't the Cp.2's rehoused distagon lenses anyway ? or at least share the same glass and coating ?
I did a small shoot yesterday where I tested my 60mm Leica R macro against my 100mm Zeiss distagon and the performance of the Leica just blew me away once again in terms of sharpness and rendition.
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Distagon is generally a wide-angle design from Zeiss. Contax shares some glass with the CP.2's, but have a completely different coating. Less contrast, and flares on a much more neutral way. People who have tested against both Leica R and modern Zeiss have found the Contax glass gives up to a stop more latitude. The closest you'll get is probably standard/super speeds that have a nigh undistinguishable coating.
 
I have invested in the CN-E's too. This was my progression: Canon FD (L series) range: 24mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.2, 85mm f/1.2 converted to EF mount (Ed Mika - Brass mounts) for a while. When I had the Canon FD set I also acquired a whole range in Zeiss ZF.2: 25mm f/2, 35mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4 (Loved the build quality (full metal) and aperture shape over the Canon FD "L") however the Canon FD "L" series lens were far better in sharpness, speed and contrast (in my view). I was using a lot of clunky setups to emulate these still lens for a cinematography application so finally decided to sell all of them to invest in a Cinema lens series. The Canon's were the topmost on my mind after having experienced the great optical performance with the FD version. Did a lot of thinking (CP.2 are so attractive when it comes to interchangeability of mounts & also re-sale value), however, I didn't let re-sale value dictate my personal decision. I realized I was going to be using them mostly on afforable EF mount cameras anyway so I took the road less traveled and bought my first Canon CN-E 85mm. Over time I managed to find the rest of the focal lengths: 24mm & 50mm, and am currently on the lookout for a 35mm too. Have you read Matthew Duclos' thoughts on the Canon Primes?

https://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2014/11/21/canon-cn-e-primes-an-in-depth-look/
 
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