Canon CN-E vs Leica R rehoused

[jordan levy]

I have invested in the CN-E's too. This was my progression: Canon FD (L series) range: 24mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.2, 85mm f/1.2 converted to EF mount (Ed Mika - Brass mounts) for a while. When I had the Canon FD set I also acquired a whole range in Zeiss ZF.2: 25mm f/2, 35mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4 (Loved the build quality (full metal) and aperture shape over the Canon FD "L") however the Canon FD "L" series lens were far better in sharpness, speed and contrast (in my view). I was using a lot of clunky setups to emulate these still lens for a cinematography application so finally decided to sell all of them to invest in a Cinema lens series. The Canon's were the topmost on my mind after having experienced the great optical performance with the FD version. Did a lot of thinking (CP.2 are so attractive when it comes to interchangeability of mounts & also re-sale value), however, I didn't let re-sale value dictate my personal decision. I realized I was going to be using them mostly on afforable EF mount cameras anyway so I took the road less traveled and bought my first Canon CN-E 85mm. Over time I managed to find the rest of the focal lengths: 24mm & 50mm, and am currently on the lookout for a 35mm too. Have you read Matthew Duclos' thoughts on the Canon Primes?

https://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2014/11/21/canon-cn-e-primes-an-in-depth-look/

what did you do with your FD's!?

 

[Nick Morrison]

What is it about the Zeiss Contax glass that you love, that doesn't carry through to the CP.2s Arthur?

Mark the biggest difference btw Contax and CP2 primes are the coatings - Contax glass have OLDER coatings much more similar to Super Speeds, Standard Primes and older Hasselblads. Much more gentle, lower contrast, and organic. The designs are also a bit older (though still very sharp), and have more character.

We intermix our Contax modded primes with Standard Primes and old Hasselblads, and they mix and match wonderfully!

 

[Ashok.Vardhan]

Where is this price reduction?

Arthur This user on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/oldhouseopti...1&_ipg=&_from= offers CN-E's 4 or 5 lens sets at a heavily discounted price (based in Santa Monica), contact him through a message and see if you can work out a deal. Or, you can order from Henry's in Canada: http://www.henrys.com/83388-CANON-CN...-EF-PRIME.aspx (With the exchange rate for the $ you will only be paying ~ $3500 for each lens)

what did you do with your FD's!?

Sold them all to build my CN-E set.

 

[Arthur Woo]

Arthur This user on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/oldhouseopti...1&_ipg=&_from= offers CN-E's 4 or 5 lens sets at a heavily discounted price (based in Santa Monica), contact him through a message and see if you can work out a deal. Or, you can order from Henry's in Canada: http://www.henrys.com/83388-CANON-CN...-EF-PRIME.aspx (With the exchange rate for the $ you will only be paying ~ $3500 for each lens)

Wow thanks Ashok! Why is Henry's so cheap?? I'm guessing there might be import fees I might have to pay that bump up the price?

 

[Ashok.Vardhan]

I'm guessing there might be import fees I might have to pay that bump up the price?

Arthur, in the past I have ordered from Canada and was not charged any import fees (I bought filters worth $600 from Millers (a retailer)) which were delivered in Los Angeles, and I even bought my Canon CN-E 24mm (Worth $3400 from another Reduser - unfortunately not a retailer), and a Sony A7s ($2000 from a FredMiranda end-user) and never had to deal with import duties. My 50mm CN-E came from Italy without any import duties so, so far in my experience I have not had to deal with any.

I am hoping that would be the case even with Henry's (which is a big retailer in Canada), when I have the budget to get my 35mm.

The other ebay option will be shipped locally (when I interacted with the seller - he said he was based in Santa Monica) so I am guessing it would be with all charges included. Do get in touch with him too see if you can work something out?

I love the CN-E's they are simply the best for what they offer, and like Matthew Duclous, would recommend them wholeheartedly. Hope you choose what works well for your shooting style and budget

 

[Arthur Woo]

Arthur, in the past I have ordered from Canada and was not charged any import fees (I bought filters worth $600 from Millers (a retailer)) which were delivered in Los Angeles, and I even bought my Canon CN-E 24mm (Worth $3400 from another Reduser - unfortunately not a retailer), and a Sony A7s ($2000 from a FredMiranda end-user) and never had to deal with import duties. My 50mm CN-E came from Italy without any import duties so, so far in my experience I have not had to deal with any.

I am hoping that would be the case even with Henry's (which is a big retailer in Canada), when I have the budget to get my 35mm.

The other ebay option will be shipped locally (when I interacted with the seller - he said he was based in Santa Monica) so I am guessing it would be with all charges included. Do get in touch with him too see if you can work something out?

I love the CN-E's they are simply the best for what they offer, and like Matthew Duclous, would recommend them wholeheartedly. Hope you choose what works well for your shooting style and budget

Amazing! This is why I love this forum! I actually bought a set of secondhand lenses from another RedUser. Will report back!

 

[Ashok.Vardhan]

I see you updated your signature Arthur, nice! How much did you get the 35mm for? What're your first impressions so far?

 

[Arthur Woo]

I see you updated your signature Arthur, nice! How much did you get the 35mm for? What're your first impressions so far?

I took delivery of them over the past few days and had the chance to use them on a fashion lookbook today. They're very sharp which is what I wanted. Love the contrast, build quality, color rendition. 35mm has awful CA at T2.8 and lower against large, overexposed objects like windows, but gets better as you stop down. 35mm got used from a private seller for just over $3k. Happy with the purchase for the price I got it for!

 

[jordan levy]

I took delivery of them over the past few days and had the chance to use them on a fashion lookbook today. They're very sharp which is what I wanted. Love the contrast, build quality, color rendition. 35mm has awful CA at T2.8 and lower against large, overexposed objects like windows, but gets better as you stop down. 35mm got used from a private seller for just over $3k. Happy with the purchase for the price I got it for!

i wonder if that's why i see so many 35mm's going for cheaper then usual.
did you try to mix the contax in with any footage? wondering how it matches up.

 

[Arthur Woo]

i wonder if that's why i see so many 35mm's going for cheaper then usual.
did you try to mix the contax in with any footage? wondering how it matches up.

The 35 is a nice lens with great reviews. Sharp as a tack. CA is not a problem unless you're shooting a lot of overexposed areas as your backgrounds often. But when the CA shows, it shows in its full glory.

I was comparing the two sets earlier today. Straight out of camera, the Zeiss were less contrasty and had neutral color. The CN-E had a nice contrast and had a subtle yellow/orange warm hue. On a computer monitor, they're similar in sharpness, though when I blow the image up on the camera's LCD, the CN-Es appeared to sharper. On a big screen I wouldn't be surprised if the CN-Es were much sharper.

 

[Ashok.Vardhan]

The CN-E had a nice contrast and had a subtle yellow/orange warm hue.

That's how they were designed:

MD: I know that Canon places a generous amount of value in the character of a lens. Is there a specific look to this “personality”?


CUSA: Specifically, the spectral transmissions of the CN-E primes are closely matched to each other and to the Cinema EOS zoom lens while also being optimized in conjunction with the Cinema EOS CMOS image sensor and associated color filter array to achieve a highly pleasing cinematic color reproduction – most especially on skin tones. The prime lenses have a warmth to them which some people describe as a “Golden Look”. The contemporary optical coatings used on all of the glass elements endow the primes with a vivid contrast. The tight management of the 4K optical performance across the image plane in combination with that high contrast imparts superb picture sharpness. The four primes covering 24mm to 85mm are unusually fast and this allows an extremely shallow depth of field to be achieved when wide open.

Excerpt from an interview with Ryan Kamata, Sr Specialist, Business Planning and Larry Thorpe, senior fellow, Professional Engineering & Solutions division of Canon U.S.A.
(https://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2014/11/21/canon-cn-e-primes-an-in-depth-look/)

 

[jordan levy]

The 35 is a nice lens with great reviews. Sharp as a tack. CA is not a problem unless you're shooting a lot of overexposed areas as your backgrounds often. But when the CA shows, it shows in its full glory.

I was comparing the two sets earlier today. Straight out of camera, the Zeiss were less contrasty and had neutral color. The CN-E had a nice contrast and had a subtle yellow/orange warm hue. On a computer monitor, they're similar in sharpness, though when I blow the image up on the camera's LCD, the CN-Es appeared to sharper. On a big screen I wouldn't be surprised if the CN-Es were much sharper.

im curious on how the CA compares to a contax zeiss…seeing pictures of the raven with a cn-e and the size of it being as big as the body, i was thinking of trying to stay small as it will be mostly a b-cam or personal project camera, traveling, etc.

 

[Philip Lanyon]

im curious on how the CA compares to a contax zeiss…seeing pictures of the raven with a cn-e and the size of it being as big as the body, i was thinking of trying to stay small as it will be mostly a b-cam or personal project camera, traveling, etc.

Not sure how they compare to the contact ziess but I've used S4s and Leica summicrons lately and the all exhibit some CA in the right conditions. Wide open, backlit, high contrast edges. I would say the three sets are on par at F2. At 1.4 on the canons, there is obviously more but you get an extra stop for scenes that don't have high CA. The other sets I've tested for this were ziess super speeds, red pro primes, Schneider xenons and ziess cp2s, all of them I considered to have slightly more CA than the Canons. Of course each lens is different as is each scenario so testing for yourself is always advised.

 

[Arthur Woo]

That's how they were designed:

MD: I know that Canon places a generous amount of value in the character of a lens. Is there a specific look to this “personality”?


CUSA: Specifically, the spectral transmissions of the CN-E primes are closely matched to each other and to the Cinema EOS zoom lens while also being optimized in conjunction with the Cinema EOS CMOS image sensor and associated color filter array to achieve a highly pleasing cinematic color reproduction – most especially on skin tones. The prime lenses have a warmth to them which some people describe as a “Golden Look”. The contemporary optical coatings used on all of the glass elements endow the primes with a vivid contrast. The tight management of the 4K optical performance across the image plane in combination with that high contrast imparts superb picture sharpness. The four primes covering 24mm to 85mm are unusually fast and this allows an extremely shallow depth of field to be achieved when wide open.

Excerpt from an interview with Ryan Kamata, Sr Specialist, Business Planning and Larry Thorpe, senior fellow, Professional Engineering & Solutions division of Canon U.S.A.
(https://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2014/11/21/canon-cn-e-primes-an-in-depth-look/)

Good to know my findings were the same as described! My credibility woulda been shot to hell if it was completely contradictory, lol

 

[Arthur Woo]

Not sure how they compare to the contact ziess but I've used S4s and Leica summicrons lately and the all exhibit some CA in the right conditions. Wide open, backlit, high contrast edges. I would say the three sets are on par at F2. At 1.4 on the canons, there is obviously more but you get an extra stop for scenes that don't have high CA. The other sets I've tested for this were ziess super speeds, red pro primes, Schneider xenons and ziess cp2s, all of them I considered to have slightly more CA than the Canons. Of course each lens is different as is each scenario so testing for yourself is always advised.

Spot on. I would say the 35 Contax is comparable to 35 CN-E, but importantly as you mention - in the right conditions. Generally, won't be a prob. For the money...it works great and looks great. We can't have master prime quality at these prices

 

[Arthur Woo]

im curious on how the CA compares to a contax zeiss…seeing pictures of the raven with a cn-e and the size of it being as big as the body, i was thinking of trying to stay small as it will be mostly a b-cam or personal project camera, traveling, etc.

Personal project camera...absolutely no reason not to use still glass. Unless you're shooting only for filmmakers...most people won't even be able to tell the difference. Contax are great lenses and I prefer using stills glass when I need to be mobile - the CN-Es are huge compared to them. Also, think about focus racking if you're into that. CN-Es by hand, much more difficult because the focus throw is so much larger than stills glass.

 

[jordan levy]

Personal project camera...absolutely no reason not to use still glass. Unless you're shooting only for filmmakers...most people won't even be able to tell the difference. Contax are great lenses and I prefer using stills glass when I need to be mobile - the CN-Es are huge compared to them. Also, think about focus racking if you're into that. CN-Es by hand, much more difficult because the focus throw is so much larger than stills glass.

oh yeah, interesting, and with that size its a whole new filter platform for me too.
thanks!

 

[Arthur Woo]

oh yeah, interesting, and with that size its a whole new filter platform for me too.
thanks!

Yup that's another $1500 investment...$3k if you need a decent mattebox...$4.5k if you add a follow focus on top of that. It's like buying an additional lens once you have the lenses you want lol

 

[Matthew Quinn]

you can screw on filters to CNE lenses if you want

 

[jordan levy]

you can screw on filters to CNE lenses if you want

what size? they must be big, 112?