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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon 7D and Nikon RAW 35mm video camera?

Roberto Lequeux said:
But a lead on what? Because there is very little overcranking with Canon (just two, 30 and 60) no color correction, and "low" resolution. Also, no audio unless you call that audio.

For family videos, BTS and smaller projects, sure... but when quality is key forget about it. However, I can't see something that is virtually impossible to color correct as "broadcast quality" Sanjin.

On Red's side, don't forget about the 1.5 stops lower noise in the second generation of Mysterium, or ISO 800. It will narrows the only gap Canon has going for them, even if just "a little".

Wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...
sj for a second in roberto against Roberto.. have you had any experience CC these beauties??
no talk about audio since you didn't mention the clapper or ML hack :icon_bs:

no need to answer :biggrin:

go to canon forums.. try to find who has got it and you'll have your answer.
 
I have not. (if you were asking me, I am a bit confused)

But I don't like the limits in CCing 4:2:2, so I am assuming it will be minimal. I would love to see an example! Where should I look in Canon Forums? I have never checked them.
 
cinema5d.com

look for mthomas among many others
 
no.. only real life professional user reviews.. bi-users too.. mean.. 5d2 & red1 shooters
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Go on. Please share the info then Roberto.
Click to expand...
not sure where my post flew.. well.. again

no bookmark no link

if you need some info related to red where are you used to go??
same to 5d2..

no more comments.. we are in reduser after all :biggrin:
 
Isaac Brody said:
Not sure if it's skipping pixels to create 1080. Just saw this clip which looks promising.
Click to expand...


Hmm any particual reason why Canon doesn't show their 1080p officially
in its full glory ?


http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/


Maybe they have slow internet speeds over there....or Canon is saving on bandwidth like Panavision ? :-)


This clip does not look promising:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page14.asp



Ace said:
Am I the only one noticing the crap dynamic range?
Click to expand...

No.

How about colour precision ?
 
I definitely underestimated the limits of CCing H.264. However, with the clip from DPreview, I was unable to get the trees to mask well enough to convincingly change the color without picking up tons of other pixels all over the image. It was most noticeable on the street where you'd notice a slight color shift at half resolution and very noticeable, almost hard to miss, at full resolution.

Still it worked quite well for basic CC, certainly much better than I thought. Thanks for the heads up Roberto, I wouldn't have tried it if you didn't mention it.

I am amazed at how bad the stills look though... very flat, and just... I don't know what but bad. Could it be from trying to squeeze too many pixels into a S35-ish sensor? 18MP sounds more like something you would see on a FF35 sensor, right?
 
Does anyone know if the HDMI port outputs uncompressed footage straight from the sensor? Like most other Canon camcorders (HV20, XH-A1, etc.)?

If so, hooking up the 7D to a Ki Pro or a CD Nano Flash would be incredible.
 
Good question. They crippled hdmi on the 5d2.
 
$1,000,000.00 question
 
Regarding the h.264 bashing it really doesn't make sense. The 7D codec at 5.5MB should be equal or better than DVCPROHD. Maybe even HDCam. h.264 is a way more advanced codec than these professional codecs. don't drink the kool-aid. This is a very light compression compared to HDV. This is a smarter codec and it has a lot less compression. And even compared to the Canon 5D, the 7D in 1080p24 mode will be atleast 20% less compressed than the 5D! I think that is some pretty good compression. :)

Recode is smarter than uncompressed so you can make the datarate smaller.
H.264 is smarter than DVCPROHD so you can make the datarate smaller.
 
Jaime Vallés said:
Does anyone know if the HDMI port outputs uncompressed footage straight from the sensor?
Click to expand...


It is a too important feature to forget mentioning in campaign, IMO. I think they would have mentioned that by now.



Nik Manning said:
Recode is smarter than uncompressed so you can make the datarate smaller.
H.264 is smarter than DVCPROHD so you can make the datarate smaller.
Click to expand...

Makes sense, but unmentioned factors are:

1. Type needed - 4:2:2 High profile, Level 4 - at least > not in this case
2. Excellent quality of compression engine > not in this case
3. H.264 is designed for delivery, not editing friendly
4. H.264 consists of macroblocks, not post friendly
 
What canon needs to do is stop half-A$$ing things and get there act together. Build the most killer 1D Ever!!! No more video mode none of that nonsense it takes up space, and makes it less durable, the microphone would be a perfect example of this durability issue it just wouldn't work. And if canon wants to compete build a 2k or 3k camera with at LEAST 60fps still at 2k. and Canon needs to stop putting dual features into these things. If you can afford to buy a 5000 dollar video camera don't put still images in it. RED you deserve all the credit in the world for not being a money sump for mediocrity. Your guys ideas are top notch and while the RED ONE is in no way perfect, 90 second start up time, weighing a ton, etc you guys over there are trying your butts off not for profit but for a good camera. Your not a big ceo that wants just buckets of cash you want to build a marvel to which you can not only be proud of but use yourself and accomplish what everyone wants easy documentation of life. RED has nailed the principles, now all we can do is watch them kick some major butt!!! :emote_popcorn::emote_popcorn::emote_popcorn:
 
I want both features in these things! :)

So far the still photography element of the camera has not suffered at all from the video implementation. The 5d, d90, etc are incredible still cameras.

The first hybrid dslr came out less than a year ago! They will have it figured out verrrry soon. It is remarkable how fast things have changed.
 
With many codecs, there is significant art in their implementation to the spec, especially on the encode side, and especially in a realtime situation. When the codec relies upon motion there is a vast amount of art in their design.

Codecs are also vastly dependent upon the source input video. Spatial aliasing, of the kind we see in abundance on the 5D2 for instance is a nightmare to encode, and doubly hard for a motion adaptive codec because aliases move in the opposite direction to the motion of the object containing the aliases.

And h264 comes in multiple flavours, some more and some less efficient than others, and some with higher specs like 4:2:2 and 10bit.

So what this means is that you cannot speak in general terms on h264 to say it's more or less efficient. You must talk about specific implementations of the codec. You must also take into account the type of motion images it is compressing, their noise and aliasing characteristics etc.

Graeme
 
Nik Manning said:
Regarding the h.264 bashing it really doesn't make sense. The 7D codec at 5.5MB should be equal or better than DVCPROHD. Maybe even HDCam. h.264 is a way more advanced codec than these professional codecs. don't drink the kool-aid. This is a very light compression compared to HDV. This is a smarter codec and it has a lot less compression. And even compared to the Canon 5D, the 7D in 1080p24 mode will be atleast 20% less compressed than the 5D! I think that is some pretty good compression. :)

Recode is smarter than uncompressed so you can make the datarate smaller.
H.264 is smarter than DVCPROHD so you can make the datarate smaller.
Click to expand...

You can't directly compare data rates for a frame accurate codec like DVCPROHD designed for editing with a long GOP codec like H.264 primarily designed for lower delivery bitrates. DVCPROHD has better color resolution and far fewer artifacts, especially on frames with lots of fine detail and motion.
 
Nik Manning said:
Regarding the h.264 bashing it really doesn't make sense. The 7D codec at 5.5MB should be equal or better than DVCPROHD. Maybe even HDCam. h.264 is a way more advanced codec than these.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you are getting this information but it is simply not supported by the evidence.

Try playing around with an MXF file from an HVX200 and h.264 files from a 7D and you can immediately see DVCPROHD is much better. You can download some 7D clips here: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239-10240
 
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