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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cancel that thought...

Have to say I was really looking forward to this... I can see that this would bring up some sort of legal issues and other sort of complications, but it would've been a very good piece of information for everyone. Well, back to the good stuff. When can we get a red projector to do our own piece of convincing the skeptics? Count me in on this.
 
Others are just starting 4k. Red has mastered it and looking at the future. Things are looking pretty good for Red from where I stand. The idea that with a small amount of money I can shoot images similar to that of the big boys makes me want to be creative. Red gives us the technology, we should give the world the pretty images it deserves in return.

Looking at the 'near' future from red with the upcoming modules and all, I can't think of much else that I would need for a very long time. Then with the new sensor coming up. Dynamic range and resolution that surpasses that of film, still small form factor, wireless adaptability, red code and the red team. I am a Red fan but honestly I dont think I can wish for much more. Of course every year new technology arises and makes us wonder how the hell we ever managed to work without it but as it stands today, rigging a camera just like PJ's is really doable and that is an encouraging thought.

Thanks for all your efforts Red.
 
RED is paving the way for the future they see, and have already changed the busines, and the way images are produced 180 degrees in a very short timespan and may well practically do that again a couple of times over the next years. Therin lays the proof in the pudding. Anyone seen the modular Panasonic approach? Not only the philosophy but the formfactor is being copied.

Because it works.

The good thing is that many systems have evelved that are good.
And that is only good.

RED doesn't have to worry too much, as long as they continue on delivering fat images that anyone who know how to shoot and post can develop into gold.

And they seem to be set on that route.

THAT is what matters to me!
 
James Mccloud said:
RED has amazing cameras but in all honesty its not the arrow its the indian... I was laughing at some of the reaction to the to the original post. People where splitting in two and losing their ish just to say that there is only one tool out there and nothing eles. C-mon folks have some perspective.

I am a major fan of RED but yikes folks.
Click to expand...

...But what if the Indian thinks its the arrow? Professional athletes have equipment from a manufacture that they will only use because it's their belief it's the best equipment around (or they're getting paid to use it). It can be said about DP's who choose Arri, Sony, etc. they have the same perspective. Some say it's only a tool, but they push for the same camera every time they get a chance. I've heard quite a few DP's refer to film stocks as such as well, Kodak or Fuji. Yes there are ardent supporters of RED which we may find to be over the top, but are they any worse than DP's getting paid to say this camera from company "Y" is the best? I heard that a couple of times at NAB.

Do I personally care if company "Y" is paying for this DP to say some nice words about a camera? NO, that's their prerogative. Why is there is a double standard against REDUSERS?
 
Alas, all my worst fears have come true, there is no such thing as a free lunch! :lol:
 
It was a good idea, but it would have been better to invite the companies privately, rather than on the forum. Look through the posts on the other thread and ask yourself why you'd get involved in that, as another company?

I'm sure some will say "if you have nothing to hide, then what is the problem".... Well, the problem is brand loyalty. If it is a RED test, done at RED studios with results posted on RED forum, we all know what will happen.... no matter how impartial the test was.

Just my opinion.

I'd love to see the F65, Epic and C500 go head to head.... They each have some great qualities.
 
Jannard said:
Support matters.

Community matters.
Click to expand...
Well said. These forums are such cool places to be, even if you don't own RED cameras.

James Mccloud said:
People where splitting in two and losing their ish just to say that there is only one tool out there and nothing eles. C-mon folks have some perspective.

I am a major fan of RED but yikes folks.
Click to expand...
Well a few were a bit passionate. The worst ones were not the ones waving the RED flag. The worst ones were the ones misrepresenting other people's views and attacking strawmen. Some folks don't read and don't want to understand what people are saying. At least one person who posted actually thinks that Jim wanted all the tests to be centered around EPIC's resolution advantage.
 
Tests are for those that need to prove something, Ive seen the proof. (wow, sounds so religious!)

I guess the only thing good that could come from the test is to show how easy set/post is in comparison with other cameras. That would help alot with the "I want an Alexa" problem.. "the Epic shoots 5k and has higher frame rates!" producer: "I don't care, I want the Alexa"
 
Josh Beadle said:
Coach John Wooden never watch game films of the teams he was to play saying "If we execute what we practice it doesn't matter what our competitors do"

True in the 1960's at UCLA - true at RED today
Click to expand...

Best point to come from all of this. He was a good man.
 
Jannard said:
Resolution is not everything. But it is something.

Dynamic range matters. So does the "feel" of the image.

Frame rates matter.

Size matters.

Price matters.

Upgrades matter.

Support matters.

Community matters.



There are lots of options for you to consider. I hope that RED is one of them.

Jim
Click to expand...


wrong. i have not been (and still i am not) seeing any options.

i had only one option. and gladly this is the option i took.
there is no other company, which is giving more for the money than red.

don´t care what arri, sony, canon and who ever are doing.

jim, jarred and all other guys at red: follor your path. it was the right one in past and will be the right one in the future.

and i would add "futureproof" matters to your list.

best wishes,

norbert
 
The thing is that if 4K display and distribution will be as available soon as Red predicts... then Zacuto's shoot-out in 2013, 2014, whatever, will be done in 4K. And before that, many other people are going to be doing 4K comparison tests. Even at NAB this year, I was hearing about some private tests along those lines.
 
We work with materials from all cameras on a daily basis, but we only invested in one....

If people like getting iPhone sized images out of their cameras why would anyone make an effort to prove them wrong, just let them be.

Everyone should do what they think suit them best, Im confident that epic would win most aspects of any camera tests even if it was so that the delivery format was PAL 720x576 or lower and I think that if this shootout test is even half scientific I think thats the kind of result they will end up with.

As anyone knows, you can get a sharp enough picture for Vimeo use, with the right lens and settings on your 550D or GH1... thats not the question here. But I think that if you are looking into making a living in the film industry you probably need to aim a bit higher than the average Joe and the kids making their skate movies, when it comes to camera investments.

If you don't then you will probably quite quickly find your self shooting kids birthday parties or weddings. The other options with those cheep cameras is to find yourself sponsors, companies that are willing to pay you because you show the world on your blog how great your stuff looks even though you shot it on such a low cost gear...

We are not aiming for birthday parties or sponsors are we?


Enough said I think.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
The thing is that if 4K display and distribution will be as available soon as Red predicts... then Zacuto's shoot-out in 2013, 2014, whatever, will be done in 4K. And before that, many other people are going to be doing 4K comparison tests. Even at NAB this year, I was hearing about some private tests along those lines.
Click to expand...

Agreed David, but I think RED is actively doing something about this via REDray and their Laser Projector. A 4K projector for less than 10K that does 3d with passive glasses? That should replace any film projector everywhere...Just depends on contracts with Sony who last I checked created the only other 4K cinema projector being used in any volume today.
 
Jannard said:
This idea of a real test has gotten out of control apparently.

Several companies have refused to participate. I guess if I were them I might consider the same thing.

Resolution is not everything. But it is something.

Dynamic range matters. So does the "feel" of the image.

Frame rates matter.

Size matters.

Price matters.

Upgrades matter.

Support matters.

Community matters.

We are going to take down our offer to do a comparison test at RSH. The grief and complication doesn't warrant the effort.

I hope that everyone can do some testing on their own that includes all aspects of image capture. We just aren't up for the grief. We have better things to do.

There are lots of options for you to consider. I hope that RED is one of them.

Jim
Click to expand...

RED is the only option for us. Best bang for your buck. In fact, these other camera companies would probably still be promoting smaller 1080p at higher prices if RED had not come in and given us 4K for much less than they were offering 1080p for. We are REDicated to RED ;)
 
When I was working at "X" company long long time ago, we had all kinds cameras in house, we used to test each camera ourselves, but we never published the results to outside. It was common corporate practice. We knew always what is the best, and included our own products.
 
As a camera geek I was really looking foward to it! (As I am with the Great Camera Shootout.) However, from another companies point of view, what would they gain? I am sure the larger competitors already have done their own in house tests of their camera and the industry standards. I have no doubt about it. (As I am sure RED has done as well.) Plus they would be on "enemy ground" so to speak. The biggest winners would have been, in my opinion, the new prosumer RAW cameras. While the Epic would have blown them away in almost everything but price (and possibly rolling shutter if we are talking about the Bolex and A-Cam). If they even came close to matching the image, it would be all about price and performance for them. The big companies would stand nothing to gain unless they knew they would sweep, or at least miles a head.

As a camera geek I am dissapointed, I love watching that stuff. (Or maybe even a statistics geek, love side by side comparisons with cars, aircraft, computers, weapons ... etc.) But it makes sense business wise not to enter a compitition.

PS Every camera has it's niche, and there is no perfect camera. (Currently!) RED in my opinion is definately one of the closest with in my price range though.
 
'''I just don't understand why other companies aren't doing what you do? Why do they have to bring out cameras with "meh"-specifications and a ridiculous price tag?

I just don't get it, they have the resolution now, but the price, RAW-specs and color science are stone age. How many years before they change the next step?'''




I know Why, because they don't respect their customer,they just think they are an old company and always they are a leader and you as a customer have to buy their product.
I once wanted to buy a camera for one of my friends from a German company all of you know and they forcing me to buy the camera from their resale r which i had lot of bad experiences with them and always sale thing overprices, then i talked to the sales manager of that German company and gees what he told me '' sorry but you have to buy from our local resale r because they spend money and we have to support them.
after that i change my mind about buying that camera and will hate that company for ever cause what they doing is over price stuff to support their networks and that's not fair from customer respect side because they want us to pay their supporting fee, very stupid marketing strategy
 
I do think it a bit sad that RED wasn't given a little acknowledgement regarding Epic's features and how they align with its 5K to make such exquisite imagery. The reason(s) Steve Weiss gave were not helpful: that it would be "propaganda ... to show that your camera looks best in an environment [Red's] that only you and your pals can really see in 2012". Considering how this "environment" would have benefited all competing camera imagery, surely we have enough confidence in the abilities of the viewers (those who are invested in such things) to make accurate assessments based on their own professional needs - not only for now, but the foreseeable future.
 
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