Can Apple Cinema Displays be properly calibrated for color correction?

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

But I think it's also good to remember that films have been done in the past that looks quite amazing and they did not have anything near as accurate as a cinemadisplay when they where doing them...

...and by the way, a drive for absolute technical perfection creates a lot of FUD. Most youtube videos are bad because of poor concepts, poor ideas and poor artistic skills, they are not bad because the colour accuracy in the grading room was slightly off.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Hi Bjorn, I agree, but am curious, as the older Cinema Displays were based on a 1.8 Gamma, and newer Macs are based on 2.2 Gamma. I know this is not relevant as much for something that will be shown on a big screen, but curious as to your thoughts on outputting to web. I graded a music video on an older Cinema Display, then, similarily, checked it out on different monitors.laptops/phones etc, and found it flat, so recalibrated my Cinema Display to 2.2 Gamma, and regraded with that. Seems to be working better for me that way. But was wondering what your thoughts were, (as, either way, it's important to check it out on alot of different monitors, and find a happy medium, in terms of Gamma), but it seems to me that calibrating a Cinema Display to 2.2 is the way to go now? Until I can upgrade, I am still on a Cinema Display too and trying to figure out the best starting point, or middle ground Gamma, so that I wont have to adjust as much after comparing on different monitors. And thanks for your thoughts on this.

Usually these issues are not so much about monitors more about conversion errors and the way quicktime display quicktime files. As we all use different programs and computers it's hard to tell what your struggle is.

It's hard to explain but quicktime actually takes an image with colors between 0-255 and clips out the colors between 16-235 and expand them to the full range. So basically before showing a quicktime in QP you need to make sure black is at 16 and your white point is at 235... now some programs will do this when you actually create your quicktime... some will not... So the most simple way to make sure that your pipe is straight is the following:

create a pitch black tif frame in photoshop.
paint some 255,255,255 white on it.
paint some 16,16,16 dark gray on it.
paint some 235,235,235 light gray on it.

Now run that frame tough your processing pipe. and make sure it comes out the same in the other end.

If your pitch black and pure white coming out as they should. then it may be so that your process or player squeeze the image to land between 16-235 or opposite cuts away 0-16 and 235-255 and expand the image to fill the full range. The first example gives you a pale image and the second will land in to much contrast. Try looking at the end result both in QP and VLC.

Example if I export a quicktime from my flame I need to use a lut that squeeze the 0-255 image into 16-235 to make it play back correctly on a apple macbook with quicktime installed.

 

[Daniel Reed]

...make a DCP of that reel and take it to the closest theater near you that can play it on the big screen for you. If you are lucky you will like what you see. Probably your gamma will be off in one way or the other. So if it's no contrast and bright on the big screen then you run back home to your test reel and adjust, and you can probably do about 5 different settings, more contrast, adjusted gamma and contrast, only gamma correction, more / less and so on. Then you name them 1,2,3,4,5 etc. and go back to the theater.

Hey Björn, great suggestion. :coolgleamA:

 

[Marc Wielage]

Why do they burn power and tubes when nobody uses it?

We generally left the CRT monitors on at Technicolor but with reference black and sync only. We never left a monitor on with a picture on it, because that will burn in over time. Once plasma monitors came in, I think it was generally decided that we'd turn the monitors off provided they were not going to be used again for 8 hours or more. Even then, we generally turned them back on 1 hour prior to the start of the session, just to make sure they stabilized. I used the same process with DLP projectors as well -- and some of those consume a couple thousand watts of 240VAC (and have a $700 lightbulb with finite life).

 

[eric schneider]

Usually these issues are not so much about monitors more about conversion errors and the way quicktime display quicktime files. As we all use different programs and computers it's hard to tell what your struggle is.

It's hard to explain but quicktime actually takes an image with colors between 0-255 and clips out the colors between 16-235 and expand them to the full range. So basically before showing a quicktime in QP you need to make sure black is at 16 and your white point is at 235... now some programs will do this when you actually create your quicktime... some will not... So the most simple way to make sure that your pipe is straight is the following:

create a pitch black tif frame in photoshop.
paint some 255,255,255 white on it.
paint some 16,16,16 dark gray on it.
paint some 235,235,235 light gray on it.

Now run that frame tough your processing pipe. and make sure it comes out the same in the other end.

If your pitch black and pure white coming out as they should. then it may be so that your process or player squeeze the image to land between 16-235 or opposite cuts away 0-16 and 235-255 and expand the image to fill the full range. The first example gives you a pale image and the second will land in to much contrast. Try looking at the end result both in QP and VLC.

Example if I export a quicktime from my flame I need to use a lut that squeeze the 0-255 image into 16-235 to make it play back correctly on a apple macbook with quicktime installed.

Great advice Bjorn. Thanks!! I think I have tried this in the past, and had issues with my NLE FCP7 misinterpreting gamma, which I later found was easily resolved in user settings, but never got back to it. Thanks much!

 

[Björn Benckert]

We are using X-Rite EyeOne Display 3 Colorimeter, found here: http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay3.shtm

It works well with the cinema displays, and creates good ICC profiles to use for both pc,mac, linux etc to run any monitor. It can make a calibration for the screen only and also take the light setting in you edit room in consideration ( I think it can actually do that live, even if we have not used it).

Personally I sit in a suite with tungsten light on while I work and, then I turn all lights of when looking at colors, and I'm using an ezio screen for my flame desktop and a samsung lcd screen on the wall and a 30 inch cinema display on the side running on a mac. So naturally then I got the screens calibrated without "room light".

But Im pretty sure that the struggle with colors are usually not so much du to screen calibration or not expansive enough screens. More likely the way different quicktime codecs and players decide to show colors, with and without clamping, gamma space etc. It's is quite a jungle out there, and having workflows that involve any kind of quicktime file processing very much demand that you are sure of what you are doing or move forward with caution. And the issues with quicktimes is nothing that an overpriced screen or calibration tool will solve.

But an X-rite will very much help to calibrate any screen or TV set. As the ICC file created maps out/ corrects the colors in a way you for sure will not be able to do by jumping around in the menus with your remote.

I also think that my really expansive Eizo screen looses calibration over time much faster than our (quite old, should not be so good as I acctually think that they are) cinema displays. So to me using a calibrated cinema display is at least better than a poorly calibrated "reference monitor".

 

[Abraham Lim]

I think the situation here is that there are indie users who are looking for "what they can get by with" and professional craftsmen whose rate is determined by the quality of their workflow, so it's not likely they are going to be too keen on compromises; understood. I worked in top post houses (National Video, Betelguese, Post Perfect) in NYC when I was going to school and as an editor learned the proper workflow to pitch to clients...and also the workarounds for my indie work on a budget. If not for my work in the online rooms as a professional, I would have never learned the acceptable compromises I could take. I think the new filmmakers have a great situation here, where they can get the same information, without having to intern and work for 2 years in a professional environment. That's the great thing about Reduser, you get the full spectrum of opinion and can choose a place somewhere in the middle, depending on your project. When a respected member like Bjorn says it's ok to do a workaround, it carries weight.

In the DaVinci and Sunburst CC suites where I finished my 35mm/16mm music videos, I was always noticing that even with calibrated high end monitors, there would still be differences; Sony CRTs were blue, Ikegami were greenish and nothing ever looked as good once it left the suite and was on MTV. So, even back then I realized the monitor was a reference, so as Bjorn said, you just don't deviate from your chosen monitor; don't change the settings once you calibrate, and stay the course and make a master adjustment at the end.

For my last indie project I used the Matrox MXO on a Samsung LCD after testing and calibrating it with the MXO tools and a Spyder Pro 3. I also borrowed an NEC wide-gamut IPS monitor and adjusted the LCD to match the NEC. Then I didn't touch it. So the principle is simple, yes, there may be an offset, but it is a consistent offset, which can be corrected after you screen a test on a reliable set-up. In the U.S. I made Asian American films, so the venues the film would be screened in ranged from Sundance on HDCAM to DVD's on Barcos. Sometimes I bring the HDCAM to the venue in advance and screen a few scenes and go back to my cave and make adjustments. That's the great thing about filmmaking now, you have the ability to do it yourself, if you can master the technical essentials. I couldn't make the films I wanted to make if I had to do it any other way.

 

[Von Thomas]

Just a bit of info, the Apple Cinema display like most inexpensive monitors, cannot be calibrated, only profiled.

Von