CAMP RED - AUGUST

[Graeme Hay]

Wow that is impressive Idea. I'm just speechless on how impressed I am that Ted is going to do this!

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

This is a FANTASTIC idea... as for the naysayers - uh my GF's 9 year old has already made 5 shorts in the past year. She now writes scripts. does storyboards - visual FX, stop motion, voices. etc etc.

She has been begging me non-stop to shoot on RED ... congrats TED. I am so all over this... do you need adult volunteers?

I would love to attend and then host something like this locally...

 

[Zharmane Washington]

aaa

 

[Anthony Rinaldi]

If only this was 2004! I'd have done it in a heartbeat!

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

My 13 yr old daughter is ready. Can't wait for details.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Ted my friend, If I am unemployed then I am asking if I can be a teacher at the camp.... Cam't think of anything better ... And maybe someday Georgia (3 1/2) can go too

Peter

 

[Kristin Stewart]

Hard times to express an opinion... I was just suggesting that kids are who they are, kids. And to give them access to the top gear is, in my opinion, out of proportion. They have to grow up, learn, learn, learn, make little movies on Flip cameras, that's enough. And once they will have something really interesting to tell, to show the world, once they would kill to get their hands on this great gear, well, why not ?

Here's another suggestion : in the USA, there are a lot of interesting people who will never have access to all this great gear and facilities : Afro-Americans, Mexicans, Indians, etc, all the people you almost never see in the blockbuster industry. Some have really something to tell, to show and I'm sure they would make interesting stories and pictures. It would be worth for Red to consider organizing FREE camps for the "minorities" : after all, this Red hype should benefit to the vast majority of us, shouldn't it ? I could send Red a few artists to teach and encourage them.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

And to give them access to the top gear is, in my opinion, out of proportion.

Except I don't think it is about the gear, particularly - that is an adult projection. Making films is a collaborative experience, and it is about providing that experience on a scale and in an environment that can open these kids' minds and show them what is possible in an experiential, real-world context.

I get what you are saying about minority programs and have a plan of my own which I hope I can afford to implement someday. I believe that Ted is a baked-in educator, it seems to be in his blood, and that Reducation and this initiative are only the beginnings of something larger for RED, over time, in terms of revolutionizing the teaching of production skills using the next generation of imaging tools. But they can't do it all themselves and not all at once.

They have moved mountains in a very short period of time - let's see what they can do with this...

It is always very easy to say what other people should be doing - but actually doing these things is very hard and takes a lot of people power and resources. And it has to make some business sense as well....

 

[Kristin Stewart]

Except I don't think it is about the gear, particularly - that is an adult projection. Making films is a collaborative experience, and it is about providing that experience on a scale and in an environment that can open these kids' minds and show them what is possible in an experiential, real-world context.

Apparently, the way it is presented, it's all about the gear : "Now Campers ages 9 to 15 can experience shooting with the same cameras that shot "The Social Network" and "Pirates of the Caribbean 4 in 3D", and are working right now on upcoming blockbuster movies such as Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit"." Let's be honest, most of the Redusers are gear-addicted, the Red team included. I think that if you really want to open these kids' minds, you don't really need this gear, all you need is a few books and some paintings/sculptors/etc... The Red real-world context doesn't correspond to what most of the directors/dops will meet in their professional life.

You're right though : making films is a collaborative experience. And judging by my modest experience, most of the helpful people in the indy filmmaking process don't come from the pro world, but from other domains... That's usually what people realize once they bought the same gear as James Cameron/David Fincher/etc (like in the ad). In the end they feel quite alone once it comes to set up a crew ;-) I think it will open these kids' minds a better way if they understand that sooner ;-)

15 years ago, I took care of a Manhattan kid who was sent by his father to Paris, to learn a new language (in two months...) Poor boy. Dad (a famous lawyer in NY) probably thought it would be a great experience for him. This kid was reading the New York Times almost every day. Well, he was trying. But in the end he was just a little kid imprisoned in an almost adult body. And what did he really like about these holidays ? The museums ? The Parisian Life ? No. The swimming pool with the pretty teenage girls of the quarter ;-)

Conclusion : just give these kids a Flip camera, some friends and a swimming pool ;-)

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

well, of course it is about the gear for the adults, who write the copy and design the programs - for kids, it's usually about the snacks.

The truth is, half the time, for the adults, it is also about the snacks. Just listen to any crew waxing on about good catering services and bad catering services...

(or throw a few peanut M&Ms out to your university students and notice how you suddenly have their attention...no academic dog and pony show has that kind of power!)

I'm an educator - I have a Ph.d - but I've spent a lot of time participating in the education of a variety of populations - and one thing that I have observed repeatedly is that very few people actually learn in real time, and those that do are in the minority...most people actually learn through a process of assimilation over time, and sooner is always better - read Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point" - RED's program has the potential to shift the tipping point in film education.

That is a very good thing.

 

[Kristin Stewart]

Interesting debate, Meryem. I think adults are expecting too much from children. I was more doubting about the fact of giving kids this top gear than giving them opportunities to learn making things, of course. The filmmaking experience is, in my opinion, more a matter of maturity than a matter of gear/technical things. These things can be learned quite quickly : in fact, here in France, when you say that you're a cinema pro, almost everyone think the same : 'Ah, ok, you weren't smart enough to study seriously ? You're too lazy, man' ;-) The students who choose to study cinema at the University are usually the worst ;-)

Most interesting movies come, in my opinion, from people who aren't in the cinema business since their childhood. Angelopoulos, Kaurismaki, Lang, Lubitch, Nuri Bilge Ceylan, Murnau, Pelechian, Tarkovski are more interesting than Spielberg for instance ;-) I mean, judging only the content.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I see what you are saying - that giving this age group a lot of high-end professional gear is putting the cart before the horse, to use an American expression - (or maybe it is British, who knows?)

I mean, my 10 year old daughter probably weighs about the same as a fully loaded RED ONE camera (55 lbs.)...She can't even get one off the ground, heh.

Of course, SCARLET is going to shift that landscape. It is probably going to change a lot of our preconceived notions about imaging and access to imaging technology. It will also probably put a lot of great used camera gear (DV, HDV) into the hands of many under-served populations. These are still powerful tools.

But I still think, based on my observations with production interns -- and I live in a university town with a film program and see many of these -- that most film education is already well behind the curve of what it should be.

If we were an intelligent society, we would be teaching film history and production classes to all middle school kids, not just getting them started in college - or late high school, if they are lucky and have access to these resources. Not many do. Access to media and the ability to control media is power. And a literate society is a powerful society.

Anything RED is going to do to push the learning curve excites me.

And they already have proven themselves very good at pushing the curves.

 

[M Most]

If we were an intelligent society, we would be teaching film history and production classes to all middle school kids, not just getting them started in college - or late high school, if they are lucky and have access to these resources. Not many do. Access to media and the ability to control media is power. And a literate society is a powerful society.

If we were an intelligent society we would be teaching art, music, sculpture, and things like color theory and the psychophysiology of color, and forgetting about all things technical until the basic principles of artistic expression are learned. Tools are tools, and visual storytelling using things like cameras is only one way of eliciting an emotional reaction through artistic abstraction. There are lots of other ways, known and unknown. The only way to let mankind's artistic expression grow and evolve is by teaching that the art is what's important, not the tools you may happen to use this year to help to create it. No slight to Red or Arri or anyone else, but a camera is just a camera. Learning the specific placement of buttons and specific functions of a device can be done in trade school or in short classes. Learning to be an artist requires a lot more than an expensive high resolution camera. A child's artistic curiosity can be served just as well with a paintbrush, a computer, and a $300 video camera as it can with a Red One.

Just my opinion.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Excellent point Mike... but I think the beauty (and generosity) of this program is getting lost on this "pointed" debate on art versus tech. I learned on 8Mm and then the killer Super 8 Film Cameras with "Cartridges" ....... but I would have LOVED to have attended a 16mm or 35MM film camera boot camp if it was as affordable as I trust this program will be.

Kristen- Speilberg may not appeal in France,(which I doubt) but ET, Close Encounters, and especially JAWS are among the most influential films for my generation. while the latter ushered in saturation marketing and SUMMER BLOCKBUSTERS, Poletergeist also spoke to many of our childhood fears... the monster in the closet, fear to look under the bed, the scary tree outside the window...( not to mention some of his serious films) but what does any of that have to do with RED wanting to reach out to the youth of the world?

The only expectation I will have of my 9 year old is that she has a ton of fun. And Knowing Ted and RED, I'm confident that is highly likely. If you dont feel your kids will benefit, fair enough, but this "thread crapping" is really making it harder and harder for some of us to visit this site as we used to.

with all due respect

 

[M Most]

Excellent point Mike... but I think the beauty (and generosity) of this program is getting lost on this "pointed" debate on art versus tech. I learned on 8Mm and then the killer Super 8 Film Cameras with "Cartridges" ....... but I would have LOVED to have attended a 16mm or 35MM film camera boot camp if it was as affordable as I trust this program will be.

But I'm not sure your parents would have reacted particularly well when, after attending that theoretical boot camp, you then came home and told them that you now needed a $25,000 camera system of your own, or that you learned that you can't make anything worthwhile with anything less and thus refuse to use anything less. Look, I get it, and I see the good intentions, but let's be honest - Red is a business, just like Apple and every other smart company is a business. If they can get kids telling their parents that they have to go out and get Red's gear, just like they now tell them that they "need" iPhones and iPads, that's a win for the company. It's just that Red cameras - especially without a shipping Scarlet - are a lot more expensive than iPhones.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I think you are forgetting about the Scarlet Fixed Mike

 

[M Most]

I think you are forgetting about the Scarlet Fixed Mike

I'm not. I specifically said "without a shipping Scarlet." There is currently no shipping Scarlet. And whenever there is one, it will still be a lot more expensive than an iPhone or an iPad.

 

[Francesco Bonomo]

If we were an intelligent society we would be teaching art, music, sculpture, and things like color theory and the psychophysiology of color, and forgetting about all things technical until the basic principles of artistic expression are learned. Tools are tools, and visual storytelling using things like cameras is only one way of eliciting an emotional reaction through artistic abstraction. There are lots of other ways, known and unknown. The only way to let mankind's artistic expression grow and evolve is by teaching that the art is what's important, not the tools you may happen to use this year to help to create it. No slight to Red or Arri or anyone else, but a camera is just a camera. Learning the specific placement of buttons and specific functions of a device can be done in trade school or in short classes. Learning to be an artist requires a lot more than an expensive high resolution camera. A child's artistic curiosity can be served just as well with a paintbrush, a computer, and a $300 video camera as it can with a Red One.

Just my opinion.

great post, Mike. Totally agree with what you wrote.

 

[Deanan]

But I'm not sure your parents would have reacted particularly well when, after attending that theoretical boot camp, you then came home and told them that you now needed a $25,000 camera system of your own, or that you learned that you can't make anything worthwhile with anything less and thus refuse to use anything less. Look, I get it, and I see the good intentions, but let's be honest - Red is a business, just like Apple and every other smart company is a business. If they can get kids telling their parents that they have to go out and get Red's gear, just like they now tell them that they "need" iPhones and iPads, that's a win for the company. It's just that Red cameras - especially without a shipping Scarlet - are a lot more expensive than iPhones.

Seriously Mike, that's just plain ridiculous.

Many of us have kids at Red and the camp red is reflection of that, not some nefarious plot to sell cameras to kids.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Seriously Mike, that's just plain ridiculous.

Many of us have kids at Red and the camp red is reflection of that, not some nefarious plot to sell cameras to kids.

Well said Deanan!

And also, I remember making movies as a kid, and we had to struggle to afford to get whatever video gear we could get our hands on. When we finally managed to get some more pro camera gear it elevated our game in more ways that just picture quality.

Graeme