Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Calling Red's bluff

Bart Allen said:
If a company like RED black lists there potential customers that speak negatively at times or voice concerns about there products or company, this is weird, why is RED so afraid of ppl speaking there mind so much so that they bann ppl. It seems to me that this company is very insecure, let ppl speak don't ban or black list if they want to give you there money who cares what they say what are they so afraid of if they are confident in there truth! GOD forbid not everyone sings RED praises ....
Click to expand...

I'm not going to speak to the supposed 'black list' and to be honest, I could care less who Red does and doesn't sell their gear too. But it seems that the forum is awash recently with relativly new additions to the forum with a relativly low post-count (not that mine is particularly high, or of much worth) who have started deliberately inflammatory posts.

I'm happy to read constructive, well-thought criticism- more often than not a member of Red will jump in with clarification (Graeme typically jumps in with good advice/ knowledge about resolution etc) or indeed they will be looking for things to change (remember when the name went from Epic Light to Epic S after a bit of a forum rumble).

Unqualified & unreferenced nonsense such as
" They give out one Scarlet on the announced delivery date, then make a big spectacle of it with pictures and all so that it appears they delivered on time. I say they're bluffing."
draws ire not because of being fanboys, but because its imagined fact and not a critique of fact.
 
David Battistella said:
Here is how I read this thread.

TITLE: assumes RED is bluffing about shipping

BODY: RED's Ben tricking us by saying they will ship by a certain date and then they ship one unit.


What is this? If you were saying this to me I'd have one question for you. Are you calling me a liar?

That's how I would take it.

David.
Click to expand...

+1; well said.

Don't say things here that would get you a punch in the mouth if you said them down the pub.

Mike
 
Also it took one year to ship the pal version for panasonic!

I meant to quote justins post....
 
Bart Allen said:
If a company like RED black lists there potential customers that speak negatively at times or voice concerns about there products or company, this is weird, why is RED so afraid of ppl speaking there mind so much so that they bann ppl. It seems to me that this company is very insecure, let ppl speak don't ban or black list if they want to give you there money who cares what they say what are they so afraid of if they are confident in there truth! GOD forbid not everyone sings RED praises ....
Click to expand...

Thank you. For every complaint about Red on this forum there are 49.6 people that are ready to throw insults sing Red praises. I'm not saying everyone should agree with me. If you don't that's fine but let's have some balance to the forum. People will love Red no matter what they do, that's fine. Red has done sooo many things right and that his why I am one of their customers (for those that have questioned whether I am a customer, yes I am a customer even before Scarlet). Red has accomplished a lot, but they are quick to say "the industry is doing this, but we're doing this". However, they still have a long way to go. There is plenty of growth to be had in areas that other companies are doing far better. You can disagree if you want, but don't shun or ask for comments like this to not be posted anymore.
 
Peter,

I agree. People do jump to RED's defense and are probably too protective for one reason or another. But RED can take care of themselves. They can answer for themselves and they do here, often.

To me, it's just their house. I don't go over to my friends place and say, "put the TV here and the couch there." There is a level of respect I have to have for the rules of that home. I like to leave my shoes on, but when I am asked to remove them, I do.

If you walked into my house and imply things about me, or my wife or my kids, then I might get offended. I might say, "hey, you aren't welcome here if you choose to behave that way." That's my right in my house. (i think).

Anyhow. In order to understand this place that is just about how it operates. It's RED's house. Their internet forum is like walking into their studios.

Would you have walked into RED studios and said to Jarred, "Hey man, you are full of shit, you only shipped one camera, I know what you are up to." Probably not.

Do you have the right to?

Absolutely.


And all this talk of blacklists sounds like student conspiracy theory paranoia. It's not a conspiracy. If you act like a dick, they treat you like one. Old school rules. Simple.


David
 
Brian Iannone said:
Just out of curiosity, is there seriously a "Black List?" I've seen this mentioned in threads before, but I didn't know if it was serious or not.
Click to expand...

There is one thing I have learned about blacklists. They are rarely public information.

LOL


David
 
David Battistella said:
Peter,

I agree. People do jump to RED's defense and are probably too protective for one reason or another. But RED can take care of themselves. They can answer for themselves and they do here, often.

To me, it's just their house. I don't go over to my friends place and say, "put the TV here and the couch there." There is a level of respect I have to have for the rules of that home. I like to leave my shoes on, but when I am asked to remove them, I do.

If you walked into my house and imply things about me, or my wife or my kids, then I might get offended. I might say, "hey, you aren't welcome here if you choose to behave that way." That's my right in my house. (i think).

Anyhow. In order to understand this place that is just about how it operates. It's RED's house. Their internet forum is like walking into their studios.

Would you have walked into RED studios and said to Jarred, "Hey man, you are full of shit, you only shipped one camera, I know what you are up to." Probably not.

Do you have the right to?

Absolutely.


And all this talk of blacklists sounds like student conspiracy theory paranoia. It's not a conspiracy. If you act like a dick, they treat you like one. Old school rules. Simple.


David
Click to expand...

I agree I may seem combative, but let's all agree that on the internet communication gets misinterpreted a lot. For example if you read my posts and picture me saying these things angrily, they come across angry. I am not pounding my keys while writing these responses. I think though that a lot of people feel like they need to defend themselves too much when making critical statements. Yes it is Red's house/forum, but I hope that they are open to critical statements. I never called anyone out in particular and said they are full of shit.
 
Peter Cote said:
Thank you. For every complaint about Red on this forum there are 49.6 people that are ready to throw insults sing Red praises.
Click to expand...

Honestly I think both are annoying. :D

I don't think RED is some Machiavellian scheming empire to 'bait and switch' or 'bluff' or trick or screw over its customers.
I also don't think RED isn't doing everything they've done for any reason other than wanting to create a great product and make a ton of money doing it. I welcome RED taking care of their customers but I also know that they would go belly up if they didn't, so it's not without self interest.

I think RED gets into trouble for the same reason a lot of us get into trouble, it's always tempting to give the optimistic number where everything goes the way you want it, instead of assuming that you're going to make mistakes, screw up and lose time. I always have to double check myself when writing up schedules "is this how fast I could do it in a perfect friction-less vacuum or in the real world? Am I trying to please the customer and offer the rate they want to hear or am I giving them an honest assessment of how long it'll actually take"

I'm the first to admit that I've royally screwed up on these estimates before. Sometimes by no fault of my own, sometimes blinded by optimism.

I don't fault RED for trying to sell themselves and make a buck by hyping their products which they're proud of. Making money is hard, you need a little bravado. And conversely I don't really fault RED for being blinded by their optimism to missing release estimates.
 
David Battistella said:
Peter,

I agree. People do jump to RED's defense and are probably too protective for one reason or another. But RED can take care of themselves. They can answer for themselves and they do here, often.

To me, it's just their house. I don't go over to my friends place and say, "put the TV here and the couch there." There is a level of respect I have to have for the rules of that home. I like to leave my shoes on, but when I am asked to remove them, I do.

If you walked into my house and imply things about me, or my wife or my kids, then I might get offended. I might say, "hey, you aren't welcome here if you choose to behave that way." That's my right in my house. (i think).

Anyhow. In order to understand this place that is just about how it operates. It's RED's house. Their internet forum is like walking into their studios.

Would you have walked into RED studios and said to Jarred, "Hey man, you are full of shit, you only shipped one camera, I know what you are up to." Probably not.

Do you have the right to?

Absolutely.


And all this talk of blacklists sounds like student conspiracy theory paranoia. It's not a conspiracy. If you act like a dick, they treat you like one. Old school rules. Simple.


David
Click to expand...

Hey, Red aren't my friends. Our relationship is based purely on business. Even though Red wants to be our friend, our personal jesus or whatever.
If Red is trying to sell me something and I smell something fishy going on, i'm not going to hold it back.

Respect is necessary, but it shouldn't hold people back from questioning things.
 
Shipping delay is not a surprise we all know that ... even Jim said it in the Recon section. they are fighting hard to get this enhanced by bringing some fresh people to handle this big task

I tell you a story here in FRANCE, the country where no one is happy of anything... the country of STRiKE passion... etc...

When RED cameras are presented officially to operators and director of photography "BIG" (old school) associations ...

The first things they start with is shipping delays... not even a footage... I'm quite astonished ... even before the show is starting we are already talking about problems...
As a young disturbing guy, I raise my hand, shy and say ... could we please move and talk about the main thing: IMAGE PICTURE MOVIE !

You know here, the young generation are fighting against old french cinema protectionism coming from people saying I don't like RED even if I dont know why ...

During those presentations I asked to an old Director of Photography, a well known guy, a real famous DOP... seriously
Major rental house such as PANAVISION showed us numerous cameras as EPIC, Sony "Booat" F65, ALEXA STUDIO and the PS technics 4000 fps cam"...
In fact the F65 was not there.
Sony will show it to all major DOP and OPERATOR in a big events in December as an OFFICIAL private presentation...

I asked to this famous DOP, I won't tell his name as I'm not a suicide guy,

"If you had a camera to buy which one would you like to get ?"
He told me the ARRI ALEXA STUDIO in first, The F65 and the EPIC at the last position
I tell you the truth almost 85% of people present during this presentation was saying the same... everyone if following the leaders ... even if they don't know why ....

I told him and also to the others... have you seen the F65 footage ? .... he answered me: No...
so ... Have you manipulate the F65 by yourself.... he told me ... No...
I told him .... How dare can you put a camera in the second place whereas you have not even seen any picture or footage from it ...
He did not answered me he just said that we all know SONY and we know of what they are able to do ...

So why RED at the end ?... He brought me a huge problem for him ... shipping delays...

SO I asked him if he took a look at some footage coming from the EPIC ... he said: "yes it blows me away... !"
then he argued with things like HDRx problems... No EVF and LCD in the same time .... etc...

SO the conclusion ....
Someone that is a real respected DOP not a bad one... the one who is working on BLoCk BUSTER film even in the US in 65-100 Billion $ film
was totally amazed by the images coming from the EPIC however just because of shipping delay and delays ayway ... he put the camera and the end of his list ...
this is a non sense... people are using this curious excuse in order to find something to say against RED ...


BUT for my point of view, I don't care about it, almost waited 2 years to get an EvF and that's ok ... you know why ?.. because
it is much worth the wait ! and you'll always get your stuff anyway.

Each time you put your footage in a computer and work with them ... it blows everything away, every time and that's a real dream !
God save RED and Jim...

I'm a fan sorry ...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top