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Buyer Beware - Samy's Camera !

J

Joseph S.

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cinespeed.com
You want to buy a used lens? Don't look on craigslist. Just go straight to Samy's.

All you have to do is be stupid enough to pay for a USED opened lens that they sell as NEW. If you complain to them, they'll just say that YOU opened it. Charge a restocking fee, put it back on the shelf, sell it as new. Great way to make profits.

Amazing that they don't get caught. Totally and utterly amazing.
 
I think 10-15% restocking fees are pretty standard aren't they? Pretty sure Red do the same and it's hard to blame them.

Too many people try to abuse return policies for "free rental" or to evaluate the product, knowing they can get a 100% refund.

I know this isn't what you were doing but the practice has lead to this reality.
 
I'm not returning anything. I bought two lenses. When I got home and opened them up, they were obviously opened from before. I'm sharp enough to see these things. Sealed tape which has been carefully placed back? I see it. Manufacturers like Nikon don't leave fingerprints on products.

I should have read the reviews before going there anyway. If you google samy's reviews, you'll find a ton of links regarding opened boxes being sold as new.

I'm in 100% agreement with restocking fees for people who abuse the return policies, even a no return policy. I would prevent this. But Samy's should not put the opened, returned items back on the shelf for sale as new items trying to get away with fooling customers. Not everyone will catch them.

While I was standing there waiting, there was a slob in front of me with oily hands opening up half a dozen lenses, out of the boxes and bags, installing them on the camera for showroom demos, and placing them back on the shelves.

Anyone think this is right? I highly doubt it.
 
the problem with what you describe is that many of us - particularly redusers and because of recommendations by other redusers - want to try a few and pick the best one and some dealers allow this. If we do that we are just like the guy you described and are those lenses really "used" if the box is just opened and the lens tested? Is a new car "used" because it has been test driven 30 miles?

If you require the dealer to call those lenses used, they are going to have to refuse us the opportunity to test them - which isn't good either.
 
Michael Hastings said:
the problem with what you describe is that many of us - particularly redusers and because of recommendations by other redusers - want to try a few and pick the best one and some dealers allow this. If we do that we are just like the guy you described and are those lenses really "used" if the box is just opened and the lens tested? Is a new car "used" because it has been test driven 30 miles?

If you require the dealer to call those lenses used, they are going to have to refuse us the opportunity to test them - which isn't good either.
Click to expand...

And the problem with what you describe is that you're advocating cherry-picking the best lens sample from available new lens inventory, leaving the worse samples for the rest of us, and demanding that we pay the same price for the worse samples as you pay for the best.

Great. Thanks a lot.

While I think we all accept that there is variation of build and optical quality among samples of lenses, especially the closer the line is to consumer-level mass production, it should also be understood that the benefit of overall lower price implies a certain amount of risk for product quality variance. We manage this risk through choice of brand and the reputation it carries, not by passing the bad samples off on the next guy who either doesn't have the resources or inclination to put each lens purchase on the testing bench.

No, the dealer isn't going to have to refuse to allow you to cherry-pick your lens; you're just going to have to pay for the privilege to do it, and it should all be above board and clear to the next customer that they are choosing from among the rest, not the best. The fairest option to all is to reprice the rest at an open-box price and to charge you a restocking fee to cover the cost of lowered open-box pricing.

You get the best lens and you pay for it. The next guy gets the option of paying a lower price for a sample that is of average or lower than average quality or paying the going rate for new stock and rolling the dice on whether it is above-average, below-average or just plain average.
 
While it is unfortunate what happened in this case, I have a good experience with Samy's. We received a used rare lens from them and everything was great about it.

Beware of these kinds of possibile scenarios, but I don't want everyone to expect the worst from them.
 
I've been to stores like Samys to look at lenses or cameras and sometimes they open up a box at the counter to show me something -- I'd hardly call that a used product at that point just because it had been unwrapped. But perhaps they should be more careful about labeling opened packages so that there is no confusion that the buyer is getting a new or used item.
 
My main gripe is that someone prior to me owned the two lenses that I bought as new, used it out on the field (not demo in store), and brought it back, got charged a restocking fee for a used lens, and they put it back on the shelf. That's my one and only complaint. And it happened to me. If I go return these two, package it back just like I bought it, they'll say I used it and charge me a restocking fee, and I can go back the next day and buy the same serial numbers (if they pick those lenses).

I should do an undercover investigation. It would be awesome if I had the time.

Factory seal stickers on the boxes would be a cool option too.

And maybe I just need to mellow out about being so picky.

Thanks for all the feedback. Sorry about ranting. This thread actually helped me a little with my sanity.

Joe
 
If I buy a lens in the store I do not buy it until tested on my camera... I would not call that cherry picking, I would call that getting the product demo... if the seller would need to have all products not only in stock but also demo a demo ex that could never be sold for full price then that store would be more expansive than the a store where they open the lens box, let you try it, if you like it you buy it. then the store orders a new one, it gets opened, tested and sold... quite simple. I think any lens should and would survive some by store personnel supervised testing before sold as new.

Then again the store could have their own seal to the box so they know if it's been opened when sold with currier.

I know people are picky with glass but in and out of the package will not do that much harm will it?
 
When a REDuser brags about being a Billy Badass by buying 5 Canon lenses to test and keep the "best" one I don't see anyone jumping his shit. This issue starts in places like here and Samy's etc are just as victimized as the OP. I get great service from Samy's LA - but then I have a specific Pro Rep I having been dealing with for years and I don't abuse their trust or return policy. Suggest we all do the same to prevent the open box issue and the cost that goes with it.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
While it is unfortunate what happened in this case, I have a good experience with Samy's. We received a used rare lens from them and everything was great about it.

Beware of these kinds of possibile scenarios, but I don't want everyone to expect the worst from them.
Click to expand...

The key word here is "used," a category of purchase that goes hand-in-hand with the concept of caveat emptor or "let the buyer beware."

Perhaps you are more inclined to buy a used lens from Samy's (and even pay more for it) rather than from some stranger on Craig's List or eBay, because you trust that Samy's will not misrepresent the value of the used item and will stand behind the sale.

This is entirely reasonable, since one might assume that Samy's has more at stake in protecting their reputation for fair-dealing than someone who has a one-off used lens for sale. And, if a buyer is hemming and hawing with a salesman on the other side of a Samy's display case, because he knows of someone who is offering the same lens cheaper on Craig's List, surely the salesman will trade off of Samy's reputation in trying to close the deal.

In a similar way, you might expect a Samy's salesman to try to close the deal on a new Nikon or Canon lens with a customer hemming and hawing over the purchase price because the equivalent (though probably inferior) independent brand lens from another dealer is cheaper. In his argument to persuade the hesitant buyer, the salesman will most likely trade off of Samy's reputation and the reputation for a higher level of quality of the major brand over the independents, and rightly so.

But if Samy's is allowing some customers to cherry-pick the best samples out of their major brand inventory, isn't the value of the major brand diminished to the 2nd buyer? Maybe caveat emptor still applies to the buyer here, but the risk to Samy's and Nikon/Canon is that they will lose sales to the 2nd buyer commensurate with their loss of access to the best of what the brand has to offer.
 
I bought 2 pairs of lens's there not too long ago. I explained that I am shooting 3d and need the pairs to match fairly well, and they agreed to swapping if I found a mis-match.
Turned out that the two Sigma 8-16mm ones were way off match in warp-age, so I was able to swap both for two others that had almost the same serial numbers.
I was not cherry picking for sharpness, and the lens's I returned were no worse than the new pair, only distortion matched.
 
Generally I have a lot of good experiences at Sammy's with both sales and rentals.

In future why don't you just check the lenses or other purchases with a salesperson present to verify their condition, before you give payment and leave the store ?

In terms of matching lenses and other higher end services: Sammy's is to a good degree consumer level store. They have pro-reps for people with more specific (professional) needs. It seems fairer to get a pro-rep to help, rather than knock the business which is trying to serve a very wide range of customers. I have to say too, that Sigma's are consumer to pro-sumer lenses. They are good lenses for the price, but are not manufactured to the same tolerances as say a Zeiss still lenses. To get a tight matched set; that is why one pays a lot more for higher end gear and cine lenses specifically.

Im all for critique. But Sammy's seems to me to be trying hard to deal with a quickly changing market. They are one of the few local places in LA left; I'm glad they are here and hope the continue to do well.
 
Sounds like a lot of you really support them and have great service from them. I apologize if I was off too harsh. But I still believe that if I pay for something new, it should be as it was from the factory, to the place where you crack it open. I know that some people don't care.

Everyone has different beliefs, and I respect that.

As the saying goes, "To each his own. Some people like hairy fat chicks, some people don't."
 
Spent 5 hours running around LA because production rented from Sammy's and Sammy's didn't supply the Canon AC adapters we requested. Sammy's didn't have enough for purchase in stock either. Finally had gear ready to go at 8:30, tested for only half an hour as call time was 2Am the next morning. Massive problems occur with motion control software on set, everyone wants to know, what were you doing yesterday?

Yeah, no more Sammy's for us.
 
We've had decades of good experiences with Sammy's. I could not count the number of times we've had to run to Sammy's for some last-minute purchase. No person or company is perfect but Sammy's has served us well and hope they are able to remain.
 
The purchase counter was quite helpful and knowledgable. Rentals was stoned, but friendly and apologetic. And to be fair, CineLease Rentals, CineLease Expendables and Milk Studios all ****ed up some portion of that job.... Might've just been cursed.
 
I've only had good experiences with Samy's.

However, I completely agree with you. If you buy a new product, it should be shrink wrapped from the factory. That is the only way that we can assume minimal tampering with a product. It is completely unacceptable to sell an opened box product as new, lenses or not.
 
I agree , have always had decent experiences with them . On fairfax. Anyhow
 
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