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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Build 16 + PC = NO (Or not yet)

You know guys, if I did not know you all so well, I might take some of these comments as insulting.

I'm sure that none of us are arrogant enough to tell one another "how to do it" since we've all been around long enough to know, there is no one way to do anything in this business.

Also, I have said I do not OWN a Mac based system. I never said I don't make use of them, or Avid, or a Newtek, or Vegas, or a number of other systems. For me every tool serves a specific purpose. But I spend my money on one platform that I keep running well, instead of a little money on a number of partial systems.

Right now, for me, RED's limitation to one system (by this I mean that it's set up for macs more than others, not that it only works on ONE system) is a reason to wait. I like making my choices when the playing field has a number of options. Once the SDK is out, and everyone has hit the ground running, then the cream will rise to the top and I will decide if I need to move or upgrade anything.. I'm not going to spend $7,000 - $11,000 on an editing system whose clain to fame is that it's currently the only one that's completely supported.

You know I promised myself long ago I'd stay away from debates like this.

I'd like to point out in all my time here, I have never suggested to anyone, at any time, that they are wrong or right because of what they own or what they do with their business. I've always thought you cannot do such things until you walk in their shoes.

The thread was created to warn people to make sure that REDCine was available for their specific platform before upgrading. That's all.

We've done that so I wonder if there's any reason for this thread to continue.

Jay
 
Jay was one of the nicest guys I met at NAB...

Jim
 
I have to sayt that we understand jays concern - and that they are shared by many red customers here in Germany, no matter if they use Windows, OSX or both on their PCs.

Choice is good and competition is good. Red was promoting open workflow.

Then being forced to FCP as offline editing tools (we own it, but we and most customers prefer other NLE and also on-line finishing NLE) and locking out the huge majority of all higgh-end post of *natiive* support was certainly irritating for many customers - and was, i have to say that, the only massive glicht in reds customer comunications. No one told us that all manufacturers would stay locked out for 10 months or so at IBC - and therefore many people are afraid that there once more is a hidden plan or something - as there was one.

There are many systems (discreet, cineform, iridas etc) who already supported or support redcode - but not officially and not for endusers. Its of huge importance that these companies and their users finally can work with the excellent images from the red one.

Red losts *lots* of its momemtum here in Germany due to these limitations, this week alone 3 productions who like the red a lot with all beta 15 issues and wanted to shoot on it decided against red for lesser cameras - as they needed inhouse post and their (experienced) postguys said to slow, to complicated, to incompatible - they will wait until they get a good workflow with their systems. Our post is booked out, we even have people working at the customers studios (a situation i dont like to much) in order to having working post pipelines - no matter if fcp/crimson, avid/metacheater or scratch are in the pipeline. redcine without Timecode support/edl is *quite* complicated for advanced VFX in workgroup pipelines, and many freelancers simply dont have the dozens of terrabytes we can use for the "access all areas, dont render in post" workflow with transcode at the start of the pipeline.

One needs windows or linux for top-end finishing anyhow, no matter if speedgrade with sdi/scratch/lustre/flame/smoke/quantel iQ eQ/avid ds nitris/dvs clipster/filmlight baselight etc - all the _massive_ systems are not on osx.

I cant wait until the windows support allows 3hd parties in - and thats, besides image quality *the* main feature of R16 we are waiting for. Its *the* feature which makes red change from the brilliant pioneer tool which is "not for anyone" to *the* common sense tool.

And its good to be reassured by Jim that 3hrd party support for redcode and SDK are top priority.
 
umeric said:
Sadley [:wink: ] we are going to buy mac for the red + finalcut - or we could use the mac mini we use for itunes player in the studio :)
Click to expand...

I would wait. The FCP on OSX is not realtime in HQ, not 4k, not 12bit RGB... we use it as offline if we go redcode native and with i.e. cineform & adobe there are much more powerful, higher quality online tools just waiting for R16.
 
Interesting times ahead. RED team starts working on SDK.
Any guesstimate how much time it might take, I don't have slightest clue.
 
This topic does love to reoccur. Just thought I'd add that switching to a MBPro isn't simply a matter of coughing up another $2500. It's tossing and re-purchasing a dozen expensive applications and other OS-specific hardware. It's years of invested time and energy into thoroughly understanding an operating system and related software applications. It's the practical hardware and financial advantages of staying with PC, despite the current impracticality of dealing with Red footage in the PC world. I'd rather wait a few more months rather than invest a lot more money and months and months of time in reaching the same deep understanding of the OS. If it were as simple as a $2500 investment in a MBPro, I'd be there. But for me it's not.
 
Redcine for build 16 (PC) will be available by the time Build 16 Stable is released. Might not be the option you want to hear, but it is an option.
 
Sean said:
This topic does love to reoccur. Just thought I'd add that switching to a MBPro isn't simply a matter of coughing up another $2500. It's tossing and re-purchasing a dozen expensive applications and other OS-specific hardware. It's years of invested time and energy into thoroughly understanding an operating system and related software applications. It's the practical hardware and financial advantages of staying with PC, despite the current impracticality of dealing with Red footage in the PC world. I'd rather wait a few more months rather than invest a lot more money and months and months of time in reaching the same deep understanding of the OS. If it were as simple as a $2500 investment in a MBPro, I'd be there. But for me it's not.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but it is really that simple...except the $2500 should be $3500, which is exactly what I spent on my MBPro + FCS. If it takes you years to master OSX, then you need to consider another career. Sorry to be so frank...

No need to toss anything...the MBPro will get along swimmingly with your PC's
 
Sean said:
switching to a MBPro isn't simply a matter of coughing up another $2500. It's tossing and re-purchasing a dozen expensive applications and other OS-specific hardware.
Click to expand...

You don't have to toss anything, you would just be buying a new notebook computer. Oh, it runs Windows too and runs it very well.

Sean said:
It's years of invested time and energy into thoroughly understanding an operating system and related software applications.
Click to expand...

I'm with Greg on this one... If you feel that way, time for a career change.

Sean said:
It's the practical hardware and financial advantages of staying with PC, despite the current impracticality of dealing with Red footage in the PC world. I'd rather wait a few more months rather than invest a lot more money and months and months of time in reaching the same deep understanding of the OS.
Click to expand...

What about the advantages and potential increase in customers / client-base by expanding your abilities? But that's OK, you can wait... If you're waiting, you're not creating.
 
Jeff you are right about MB Pro. But you will have to agree there is more at stake here. FCS is not a good match for Priemere Pro in terms of 4K. There are still lot of issues with FCS and RED work flow. But in PC land, Cineform + PPro offers a great solution for RED workflow at the best of prices.
 
We use FCS to OFFLINE, and dont have any issues. Every Red project we shoot starts in FCS. For $995, you cant go wrong, and as I mentioned earlier my $3500 investment has been paid for by my clients about 10 times now.

"BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME."

This is the best advise I ever heeded.
 
REDefine said:
Jeff you are right about MB Pro. But you will have to agree there is more at stake here. FCS is not a good match for Priemere Pro in terms of 4K. There are still lot of issues with FCS and RED work flow. But in PC land, Cineform + PPro offers a great solution for RED workflow at the best of prices.
Click to expand...

...And no one said you even had to use FCS. After all, you could just use the Mac to process / develop your RED footage. You could run PPro on OSX in addition to Windows. OSX does not automatically mean that people must run FCS. But that said, FCS is highly recommended. Don't cut your own throat by not offering such an option. Lots of clients out there will only work in FCS and may need content that is already prepped and ready to import or even partially completed projects, etc..
 
I guess the point is that eventually the PC path will be great but right now it is not. So... for 3500. macbucks you have a money machine that does what you need right now. seems like a no brainer to me.
Aloha
-A
 
Jarred Land said:
Redcine for build 16 (PC) will be available by the time Build 16 Stable is released. Might not be the option you want to hear, but it is an option.
Click to expand...

Uhhh, Jarred,

Jim is saying he thinks REDCine will be out by week's end.. Is he wrong? or do you expect a stable build of REDCine by then ?(Do not read me being a smart ass into this.. It might sound that way a little, but this is a sincere question.. Just trying to clear it up)

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Uhhh, Jarred,

Jim is saying he thinks REDCine will be out by week's end.. Is he wrong? or do you expect a stable build of REDCine by then ?(Do not read me being a smart ass into this.. It might sound that way a little, but this is a sincere question.. Just trying to clear it up)

Jay
Click to expand...

you know Jay.... if you read both our posts and think about them you can realize that both can be true...
 
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