Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Booms v. Lavs

T

Tim Duran

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
320
Reaction score
0
Points
0
At what point do you choose to go with a boom or a lav mic? Is it distance from the camera, amount of movement by talent in the frame, shadows, or what? Is there much of an issue in combining sound issues from one type mic to sound from another mic in post? In the few productions I've watched, all have been with lavs, regardless of how far that talent was from the camera. (What I don't know is if they were wired or wireless systems.)
 
All the productions I've done in the last few years record both and we decide later what sounds best. Generally I like a mix of both depending on the shot. Lavs have some good body deep resonance sound. Booms are very crisp. The two work well together. Seems like wireless lavs often get interference in less than ideal locations, but we seem to use them anyway.
 
I use Zaxcom lavs for one man docs, plus shotguns on stand is talent is seated. Plus hidden lavs if need be. Placement is key, and silencing the cords and the clothing is a skill that good sound persons use all the time. The Zaxcom has onboard recording, so even if the digital transmission dies, it still records to a memory card. But that still doesn't help if there is manual noise from mic or clothing. If I have the budget and the situation allows for more than one person filming, nothing beats a good boom. I've heard booms with ms stereo plus two rear facing mics for ambience, aligned in a star pattern. Perfect, and good flexibility in post.
 
Tim Duran said:
At what point do you choose to go with a boom or a lav mic? Is it distance from the camera, amount of movement by talent in the frame, shadows, or what? Is there much of an issue in combining sound issues from one type mic to sound from another mic in post? In the few productions I've watched, all have been with lavs, regardless of how far that talent was from the camera. (What I don't know is if they were wired or wireless systems.)
Click to expand...

Its about sound perspective. A boom can for the most part be placed where the audio perspective is correct with the right choice of mic.

A lav (or personal mic, same thing) is always wrong. So from a pure audio point of view should be second choice.

However you may not be able to get a boom in place due to shot selection , ie long lens close shot and a long distance from the recordist, shadows from a boom pole, potentialy mic in shot and so on. So personal mics are useful to work around these problems.

The main point here is always use a boom with the correct mic selection by first preference.
 
I think all of the above comments are valid. One thing to bear in mind is that a lav almost always winds up sounding like a microphone close to the actor (which is what it is); a boom will pick up more presence and sounds much more real.

But in a hostile location, the lav may wind up giving you more usable sound. What a lot of sound mixers find objectionable is when shows use close-miked lavs in wide shots, which is an unrealistic sound perspective (depending on your philosophy). Yet a lot of films go for this all the time, and it's also been a frequent trend in TV.

The other trend has been to wire all the actors and use a boom, and the end result is a combination of all these methods. I know traditional mixers who object to this (with some justification), but it's definitely a trend. Bear in mind this could make the final dialog editing more complex, since there'll be upwards of 6-7 tracks for every scene for the editor to choose. One assumes that the lavs will only be used in cases where the boom doesn't work, but things aren't always so cut and dried.
 
Marc, I don't understand your comment on "closed-miked lavs in wide shots." I thought wide shots were the one time you wanted remotes because a boom would be in the way and/or more difficult to see the mic. Or maybe I don't know what a "closed-miked lav" is. Please explain
 
I am doing a shoot in a medium sized room with some humming and buzzing from vents air conditioners etc. The client would prefer to not have a Lav mic in the shot. Any suggestions?
 
Thanks! Would you recommend that over a small diaphragm mic on a boom?
 
Why does Thunder come after Lightning?

because even god waits for sound :)

Listen to Dave Blackham, sound is half the picture and he just offered some priceless advice on the "direction of sound"-
 
Tony Augustinack said:
Thanks! Would you recommend that over a small diaphragm mic on a boom?
Click to expand...

No, it will still be in the wrong place if its pinned to some one :-)

But nice mic though.....

22 years ago I purchased two sets of Sennheiser MKH30/60 and 30/40 kits. They have been in use day in day out ever since. No failures of their own accord excepting when a yak stood on one up in the Himalayas one day. We straitened it out in a vice and it still sounded fine. If you were to purchase a set of these mics or may be Schoeps CMIT and CCM8, they will last you most of your career. Not only is it a very good investment but also what possibly could be any better at capturing sound ?
 
Rycote makes sticky pads called "stickies" and "Undercovers" with either furry or felt pads that go over the mic. Pull off the paper to reveal a sticky surface, put your lav on the sticky part and then put the furry pad or felt on top of that. Then take the paper off the back side revealing another sticky surface and attach that under your actors shirt - to the shirt - and you will have the best system I have found to reduce noise.

Hope this helps. Biggest bang for your buck in audio I've found.

aloha,

Keith

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=rycote+undercover&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
 
Tim Duran said:
Marc, I don't understand your comment on "closed-miked lavs in wide shots." I thought wide shots were the one time you wanted remotes because a boom would be in the way and/or more difficult to see the mic.
Click to expand...
That's correct. But assuming you get enough coverage, do master takes of all this dialog in medium shots using a boom. Then use this dialog as the source for all the sound in the scene. One hopes you won't have to mix and match between the boom and the lavs, but in a time and money situation, you do what you have to do.

Again, it's a case of using whatever works. There are no absolutes in this kind of case, and a lot boils down to the creative choices by the director, the sound supervisor, and the mixer -- plus the real-world limitations of the location and the schedule.
 
Marc, thanks for the input. I just go back from NAB. Spent some time with both the Senn and Lectrosonics people and got some good input. Thanks to all of you taking the time to help all of us.
 
Keith,

I have been having trouble with clothing noise. I was giving a pointer to use something very similar to what you speak of, except it is called moleskin. Do you have any experience with this? And I have been told to tape the mircrophone wire to the shirt to prevent movements. But then you can see where the tape is and where the wire is on the outside of the shirt. Any pointers?
 
This is a good thread for me to ask this question. What are moleskins?
 
Moleskin is pretty much what keith was describing above as stickies or undercovers, except it's not made by a sounds company. It's made for reducing friction for blisters. It's in the footcare isle in the drug store.
 
Dave Beard said:
Moleskin is pretty much what keith was describing above as stickies or undercovers, except it's not made by a sounds company. It's made for reducing friction for blisters. It's in the footcare isle in the drug store.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for explaining that. Animal rights activists sent me a letter after my last shoot plus my fave lead actress no longer speaks to me.
Now I'll know better! ;)
 
New July 2010 issue of Am Cinematographer, p 66, shows a boom operator holding a mic what seems to be 20-25' away from what appears to be the sound source. Assuming that this is a cartioid pattern, what is a practical distance you can place a boom mic (or mic in general) and still get good production quality sound, especially without using gain.
 
Lavs make everything sound like those Italian movies where they did all the dialogue ADR. I shoot micro/no budget projects with a Sennheiser K3 (waiting for the laughter to die down...) and it does a great job mounted on the camera.

Best thing for checking distance is to place the mic, look at your levels, listen to playback. There's no stock answer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top