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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Bomb EVF Shipping

Michael Hastings,

Right on. You stated an early adopters position accurately, covering many of the points I would have, so I won't reiterate what you said.


Mike Ross,

Hmmm...let me see if I understand you correctly. You recently arrived at the decision point of trying to purchase a Red camera, joined Red User a month ago (1/7/11), and because an early adopter like me already has a Red One they bought way back in August 2007, along with the three other Red One cameras I bought very shortly after that in 2007, and Red set up their sales policies long before you arrived here - and somehow you feel cheated by Red because you can't step to the head of the line and immediately buy product? :thumbdown:

Red stated their reciprocal loyalty at many times over these past years since early 2006 - but you weren't around here yet to hear it. They respect those who for whatever reason made that decision to support Red when Red was just a startup company - and rightfully so, they should. Some of those who arrived after that time, simply aren't fully aware of the leap of faith it took to support Red in those early years. Some feel they can somehow just belly right up to the bar and elbow their way through those who have supported Red from early on, and automatically get the exact same access to the purchase programs Red has set up. When they find out they can't then they're frustrated. :thumbdown:

They've had the normal growth pains of a startup company, but Red really doesn't need to be schooled on how to do business. They were founded by one of the most successful businessmen on the planet, who has now built a strong and growing business in Red. They know exactly how to do business, but extenuating circumstances in business and growing pains for a young company are quite normal. I've found Red customer service to be exceptional, as have a ton of Red customers I've talked to and read posts from. :thumbsup:

Find me an equipment manufacturing company who has been or is now more transparent and communicative with their customers than Red. Who is it?

Red will get these delivery slowdowns straightened out shortly. I believe they're working on the situation night and day. Let's all give them some more patience while they get their fulfillment of orders fully ramped up. :thumbsup:
 
I put it that way: I wouldn't want a BOMB EVF before Gibby tested it ;)

Thanks Felix...I've first tested a prototype Bomb EVF almost a year ago...and gave valuable feedback to Red. Its critical for equipment manufacturers to have veterans who test early prototypes - and it benefits everyone who ends up buying one of the shipping units. I'm happy to test stuff, because it really gets put to the test :)
 
I understand people's frustrations and need to bring up their issues such as transparency, etc ... but I see Gibby defending himself and his early adoption/dedication to Red a LOT in these posts. Way too much IMHO. To me that just a little saddening -- considering what he just finished doing with the M8. Already, it seems to kinda lower the excitement and positive energy from that a bit ... because rather than having all his energy focused on telling us about the Epic-M, the tests, images, etc he's here defending why he has gear early. I really hope we can acknowledge that Red hears all these issues, let it go for the time being, and get back to the joy/excitement of what these guys are sharing with us until we have our own Epics :)
 
Mike Ross,

Hmmm...let me see if I understand you correctly. You recently arrived at the decision point of trying to purchase a Red camera, joined Red User a month ago (1/7/11), and because an early adopter like me already has a Red One they bought way back in August 2007, along with the three other Red One cameras I bought very shortly after that in 2007, and Red set up their sales policies long before you arrived here - and somehow you feel cheated by Red because you can't step to the head of the line and immediately buy product? :thumbdown:

*sighs*

Steve,

I'll point out - again - the :biggrinjester: in the post you refer to. That means my comment about it perhaps being fairer for me to get my first camera before you get your second was tongue in cheek. Teasing. Not to be taken seriously. A joke. Saying something that perhaps *some* people might say, but that I don't *personally* agree with. That's what 'playing Devils Advocate' means. I'm sorry that didn't across clearly enough in text.

Of course I don't feel cheated, and as I said very clearly in an earlier post I have no problem whatever with people like you being at the front of the line; that's perfectly proper - so long as those at the back of the line get theirs fairly quickly after you!

I just wanted to clarify that, and apologies again for not making myself clearer; I don't want to leave you with the wrong impression!

Mike
 
I don't see it this way Anthony. I think Steve Gibby tries to explain some crucial things RED is doing to the "youngsters" here in the forum just to make them understand how things work over at RED ..... just my 2c ...:001_rolleyes:
and I stronlgy appreciate the effort Gibby is putting into the EPIC tests and feeding us with the facts ....
:lurk5:
 
Mike:

I, and probably Gibby, understood that you were not serious with your comment. I was just using it as an opportunity to explain the situation in a little more detail that many new REDUSERs might not be aware.

I think RED knows that they need to move to open purchasing for their products as soon as possible, which is probably why they haven't offered any reservations or current owner preferences for the Scarlet and Epic-S offerings. There is a bit of enmity that can develop against the whole product/community if people keep being told they can't "join the club". It will be good for everyone for RED to expand their customer base and grab some of those that might purchase an Alexa or an F3 when it arrives.

And I think the Epic-X has become such a huge upgrade that all of us will be fine if that is the last time we get the early adopters preference.
 
Thanks Shane! It was hard work, long hours, and little sleep - but that's the way we like it :)

The Bomb EVF performed excellent. We had it in temperatures down to about 15 degrees Fahrenheit - and it never skipped a beat.

BTW - I've worked in OZ several times. Its been too long since my last trip there. When I'm headed that way I'll give you a shout. It would be great to personally meet members of the Red OZ family :)

Good on ya Mate :thumbup1:


Hey Steve,

Please come and visit us at the International Film School Sydney. First film school in Australia to purchase the Red. We'd make you very welcome and our students would LOVE to hear you talk. By the end of this year we should have 1 x Red One MX, 1 x Stage 2 Epic-X, 3 x Epic-S. It's an amazing opportunity. A great family to be part of. It's a great tool for energetic creatively ambitious young film makers.

A camera that has never let us down. And our students certainly put it through its paces!!!

Enjoying every post of yours.

All the best,
 
PART ONE

A lot of new users have come to this site since the early days of RED ONE. More transparency is required because new consumers are simply not going to have the same tolerance and patience for the process. I agree that RED should put more resources into communicating to their general customer base, not just their forum-bashers. On one hand, you have a company that gives you direct access to the Big Kahuna - that is wonderful! ground-breaking! and so much appreciated by all of us. It has really set the company apart from any other.

On the other hand, you have unfulfilled orders that are six months old, deposits in the thousands that are just sitting, and no communication which allows the customer to plan their work: sorry RED: FAIL!

On one hand, the greatest communication vehicle in business - on the other hand, these terrible air pockets of silence around shipping quantities and product delays.

I want RED to succeed. We all do. That means confronting what is becoming a real issue - directly addressing these fulfillment issues, so that we can plan. RED needs to step up this game - they want to serve professionals, right?

I'm not bitching - I have my RED ONE, and it's fully tricked out with all the fixins and I can shoot whatever I want with a world-class camera system - I just see these types of threads cropping up with a greater degree of frequency, and it is worrisome.

As I said, I want RED to succeed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PART TWO

On a different note, I have to side with Gibby on one account: I get really peeved when I hear forum users with no skin in the game repeating this annoying phrase "I have been with RED from the beginning" and they have not spent a dime! Or lifted a finger to evolve the company or the camera system.

I've probably dropped about $100K on my two cameras, and when I bought my first one (#1008), I deliberately positioned myself towards the end of the line of the Tribe of the Titanium R, so that I didn't have to grapple with all of the issues that a new technology requires. I wanted one that worked and had a few bugs worked out. I wanted to go out and shoot with it, not beta-test it. I submitted my first reservation on the last day of the original reservation group.

As it turned out, I still had some early-stage issues which I had to handle, even with that number, but I know that I dealt with far fewer of them than Pederson, or Gibby, or Dino, or Blair, or any of those earliest to the game -- thanks to them. All of those early adopters were quite active on the forums, letting all of us play alongside. Of course, they benefited from being first to the party, in many ways - commanding higher rental rates, building business and reputation for their early work, etc. There were other early adopters, some of you probably remember some of those names, who didn't contribute publicly to the knowledge base. That was their prerogative - to take the camera and use it. So we should be very grateful to those generous individuals who have taken us along for the ride.

But they earned it. It wasn't given to them. And don't forget that these EPIC-M cameras cost $58K body only. Being an early-early adopter has had a price tag. For me, as well - I paid more for my lenses, my RED Rocket, etc., and then watched those prices deflate a year later. That is the price of being early-er.

Being an early adopter also had advantages. It catapulted me into jobs and working with a whole new class of producers. I have crossed several items from my filmmakers' bucket list, thanks to early involvement with RED. But there was a cost and a risk as well.

It all seems very obvious now.

But it wasn't then - it was a roll of the dice, with a good bit of money and time invested, on the table.

I wish there was a "no you weren't" emoticon that I could apply to every forum user who has said, "I was with RED from the very beginning" who never had a horse in the race. No - you weren't.
 
Anthony,

I'd much rather spend my time out shooting with Epic, and posting impressions, pics, and videos of that - then to be here on this thread defending my early adopter status. In fact, my main motivation to gather a crew and post all that stuff about our adventures with Epic M-8 was to give all those who couldn't be here with our crew a good feeling what it is like, so that they can look forward to their own chance.

I've said about all I need to say on this thread...so shortly I'll put my energy back to the Epic M8 threads.

Meryem,

Thanks for your post...very well thought out, stated, and valid IMO. You presented both sides of the coin. You have a real ability to quickly analyze an issue, draw conclusions, and accurately state your thoughts.


Mike Ross,

I understood your emoticon - but I still felt the need to make my points. No worries...


Gerald,

You're exactly right...

Also, glad you've liked the M8 thread posts. We had great fun out there...like a bunch of kids with a new toy!


Duncan,

Thank you for those very kind words. As I mentioned to Shane, I've worked in Australia many times - I love visiting OZ! If I make it down there sometime soon I'll come and check out your film school. If so, I'd be very happy to speak. Its really cool that you have Red cameras at your school. Great move getting the Epic cameras too - that will help keep your students on the cutting edge of production. Good on ya Mate!
 
Meryem:

Just one factual correction, 58K was for the complete M package which included bomb evf and a couple SSDs, etc. Actually it was only about a 20/25 percent or so premium over the same package if you waited to the end of the line - so a better deal than it seemed at first glance. (I did the numbers on some other thread a while ago)
 
In a broad sense we're all family here, tied together by a common interest in Red. Yes, we each have our own needs and agendas, but I think its safe to say that we appreciate all the hard work and long hours Red Team puts in each week to design, fabricate, and deliver their products. Jim's dream and Red Teams hard work, have seriously enhanced this industry - and the business of each of us who have adopted Red products.

Though I've had long ties to Red, I've never worked for them, and I'm a customer just like everyone else who has bought product from them. I've spent a lot of funds buying Red products - and I've never regretted any of that. In fact, my investment in Red products is one of the very best moves I've made in my entire career, if not the best.

IMO Red will get this Bomb EVF shipping situation straightened out shortly and get all of you waiting for the EVF out and happily shooting. Until then, how about if those waiting exercise some more patience. Every day they're working hard to get these products moving faster. Demand has outpaced supply - a pleasant dilemma for a young business - but IMO shortly demand and supply will equalize as Red gets their supply lines fully ramped up. The Bomb EVF is a seriously cool and capable piece of equipment - IMO the best EVF I've ever used. Believe me, you'll appreciate it that much more when you get it.

I know each of the Red Team members personally. They are some of the coolest, most talented, hard working people I've ever met. They're working hard 24/7 to satisfy the needs of us as customers. They have feelings like you and me. Lets all have some more patience - they're actively solving this delivery situation. If its ants we want to attract, we can attract more ants with sugar than with salt...
 
Can we keep this thread more on track? BOMBEVF? And yea, I have patience up the Wazzoo, I just don't have enough patience to last 7+ months.... I think that's reasonable, yes? And I'm an early adopter who has paid his dues too - I just want transparency when I put money down for Red products. This isn't about loyalty or 'feelings' -- This is about business.
 
..seriously.. it's getting really old...

As a customer/supporter I want one of two things when I put money down on a product. The first being the PRODUCT.. The second being a realistic shipping time not something vague and undetermined otherwise why take my money in the first place.. That's it. I'm done with this thread until I get my BombEVF then I'll be as happy as a marshmallow
 
I did the numbers on some other thread a while ago

yup. It is less than a $12K premium for the machined parts and earlier shipping for the Epic-M. Definitely well worth it if you can get one! I have given up hope of getting one though.
 
Can we keep this thread more on track? BOMBEVF? And yea, I have patience up the Wazzoo, I just don't have enough patience to last 7+ months.... I think that's reasonable, yes? And I'm an early adopter who has paid his dues too - I just want transparency when I put money down for Red products. This isn't about loyalty or 'feelings' -- This is about business.

This thread has been on track, discussing factors affecting the delivery of the Bomb EVF. Everything in life isn't cut and dried - there are always peripheral factors and extenuating circumstances.

You've bought used equipment from me before, so you know I'm someone in business who communicates clearly, says what he'll do, and then does exactly that, delivering on time.

You and me go clear back to somewhere in 2007 I believe when we first met. Yes, you're an early adopter - not as early as me - but nevertheless an early adopter. That said, by now you should have well figured out how Red works, their commitment to their customers, along with their slogans "Everything is subject to change" and "We refuse to do business with anyone with a bad attitude". I've got a good handle on that - and you should too.

This isn't about loyalty or feelings? Really? Loyalty and regard for your associates feelings builds trust - and trust is the foundation of all relationships, whether it be personal or business relationships. All things being equal, people do repeat business with others they trust.

Berating Red in an open forum isn't the way to solve a problem. In my experience with Red, when I've had a concern I've taken it directly to Red and the customer service has been consistently excellent. Being strident on an open forum may make you feel like you'll get your problem solved faster, but in reality it won't - it will only hurt feelings and damage relationships. I learned early on in business that it was extremely dangerous to burn bridges - because inevitably there will come a future point at which I'll want to cross that same bridge, only to find that I've burned it and its just not there to cross.

I feel your pain Richard, and we are friends that go way back. That's why I'm taking the time to say the above. We're brothers in arms as early adopters and longtime Red customers. Business is about feelings and loyalty - in fact they are the mix that creates trust - and trust is the bedrock of all business relationships. Red isn't intentionally withholding any products from anyone - in fact they'll be in their glee when products are there to fly off the shelf to happy customers.

This slowdown in EVF shipping will pass soon and then you'll be on your way with your new BOMB EVF and be a happy camper. That time is coming fast...
 
Berating Red in an open forum isn't the way to solve a problem. In my experience with Red, when I've had a concern I've taken it directly to Red and the customer service has been consistently excellent. Being strident on an open forum may make you feel like you'll get your problem solved faster, but in reality it won't - it will only hurt feelings and damage relationships. I learned early on in business that it was extremely dangerous to burn bridges - because inevitably there will come a future point at which I'll want to cross that same bridge, only to find that I've burned it and its just not there to cross.
This has been my experience as well. I have found there are times when a conversation with someone directly is far better than airing it on a public forum. But that is me, and I know people have unique situations, and perhaps unique ways of dealing with things, so I'm not passing judgement on anyone if this is the route they decide to take. It's just different than my philosophy of going straight to the people involved and dealing with it head on. Especially with the fact that internet communication, whether via email or forums tend to have hard time communicating tone. I have read posts of mine where I wonder about the interpretation and worry that people might get the wrong tone from it. That's something even an emoticon can't always solve.

Hopefully this gets solved quickly because it's a much better place when we are all happy and excited. :-)
 
Folks, there seem to be people waiting over half a year here for EVFs already ordered. I can imagine they're feeling pretty frustrated by now.

Red seems to encourage airing things in a public forum. Cool. So let these good people vent, for crying out loud. My guess is that Steve S and Steve G are not lacking for functioning viewfinders.
 
Dear Red...

Dear Red...

Folks, there seem to be people waiting over half a year here for EVFs already ordered. I can imagine they're feeling pretty frustrated by now.

Red seems to encourage airing things in a public forum. Cool. So let these good people vent, for crying out loud. My guess is that Steve S and Steve G are not lacking for functioning viewfinders.

Correction, some people have been waiting a YEAR AND A HALF for an EVF.

Now I am pretty confident my EVF will be delivered sometime in the next 3-6 months, but Red please, please, please, as an early adopter and a loyal customer I am slipping this little note into your suggestion box - please, please, please improve what ever in your manufacturing model/choice of suppliers/hiring practices/optimistic marketing/"______" whatever is causing you to be fulfilling back orders of the EVF at such a glacial pace after months and months of optimistic delivery predictions*, please fix these problems before we get into the next generation of red products.

Short of improving your ability to predict or avoid manufacturing delays, what I am suggesting is this: if you don't know when you can deliver a product, tell me - I don't need to know why, just tell me you don't know when you can deliver. Manufacturing this type of product is complicated, suppliers are not dependable, shit happens...I understand.

If you think you might know when you can deliver a product (even if you are able to deliver a few protos and betas) be a pessimist, assume that something is going to go wrong in the process and tell me that you don't know when you can deliver (because you don't).

When you KNOW you can deliver a product be very, very, very conservative about your estimated delivery date and then double that - If you get it to me sooner, great, i'll be surprised and happy and love red even more. But please, let's end the part about delivery dates in the "everything subject to change" byline...at least with AKS.

Oh yeah, please fire the guy who forgot to order more port caps and AC power supplies when stock got down to 300 units or so - seeing these items on back order suggest stock room/supply chain issues haunt red even for the most basic products.


Sincerely



*
7/7/10
We expect to be out of backorder by the end of August.

7/8
We are ramping up production on the BOMB EVF.

8/27
Another shipment comes in next week....the numbers are starting to grow :)

8/30
we have ramped up production so quite a few people will be getting emails from their BOMB SQUAD reps this week letting them know a BOMB EVF is earmarked for them :)

9/02
Update for this week: "BOMB EVF's shipping = LOTS"

9/24
They are sitting in our warehouse, just waiting on the green light.

10/14
it will likely be a week before the batches start to arrive on our side of the pond and go through QA. We of course do have some in California that have been waiting to go out as well, and those lucky owners will start to get calls tomorrow....This long journey looks like it is finally coming to an end....

10/15
More shipping out to customers today... :)
 
Ouch. Zing'd with their own status updates.

With all the talk of rainbows and unicorns just over the horizon I remain skeptical. Red's latest piece of whizz-bang tech, the SSD's...straight to 'limited supply'.
 
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