Blackmagic 4K for $2995 now?

[Adam Johnson]

Bingo! I will go as far as saying the blackmagic 2.5k and pocket intercut seamlessly for 1080p delivery.

if prople worry about the EOL on a particular camera, they will NEVER get anything done..


almost all cameras are just as good as the other these days, and new camera turn around is perpetually moving closer and closer together.

just get something.. shoot with it till it falls apart, then get something new when that time comes. guarantee the majority of the film watching population couldn't pick apart a blackmagic 4k camera vs a dragon.. FACT

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Let me just state the obvious since everyone is missing it:
This is a TV station studio setting camera for UHDTV and made for it.
big rear mounted LCD, tied to their switchers in their marketing as "perfect companion", live 4K output etc.. Do we really need any more hints here guys?!!?
..

For studio it is understandable but Blair commented on the BMCC camera, the "cinema" companion with same ergonomically challenged design.

 

[shashbugu]

How in the world did this thread derail into anotha red vs Blackmagic beef. It's really getting out of hand. This was simply an oh wow Bmc4k is now 3k, lets all get one. Has nothing to do with anything else besides that. We were simply having a convo we would usually have on as 5d vs 7d, but red vs Bmc, c'mon

 

[Wayne Morellini]

$3000 for a camera that could have been $2000.

They should release another camera. Eventually, year by year, most if the deficiencies discussed here could be fixed.

They don't listen enough, they did not get even HDMI/tb/display port p50 mode for recording or live on the original, pocket or 4k, plus the formatting, remaining time et all, people are talking about, let alone proper p50 recording modes at and resolution, even though apparently the present sensors support it. If my programming skills were up to date I could have rang them up and offered to work on the firmware, I was thinking about it. I think they are limited by a commodity engine they are using, until the origin part manufacturer upgrades it, we might be limited to non conventional max resolution modes in 50p that might be too costly to program, if possible

However a yearly upgrade means that compressed 4kp50 and 48 can become available, even in cineform raw.

I'm still waiting for a appropriately priced locally serviced professional 4kp50 camera with good compression and sensor. If they can release a pocket, full or fixed this year for similar price with 4kp50 I will be happy. I suspect the price drop might indicate newer models.

What they really need to do is make a fixed like camera (ship with weather sealed detachable zoom lens) that matches the video features and ergonomics of Sony PXW-Z100 + cinema modes, except the quality will be much better. At $5k the feathers would fly. They could include cineform raw, gopro has been making it into an official standard, and cineform had been looking into hardware solutions originally. I could introduce them if they needed.

Now if anybody wants something cheaper and better, they are welcome to donate 100euro to Axion open source camera project that is using a high speed s35 4k sensor. Also not really a Red competitor, which might be in 8k+ by the time this comes out.

http://axiom.apertus.org/index.php?site=donate

https://www.apertus.org/axiom

Complaining is cheap, companies not doing anything about complaints may seem even cheaper, if you want a cheap not top camera, you can put your money towards a solution, I've already donated.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Regarding pricing:

Maybe they realized the benefit of the sensor not being on the side of the camera, so new model is pointing at the right direction. Hopefully the $2000 4K model without the record button or shaped like a chair is not next...to join BMCC, GH4 module, FS100/700 and others in Camera Special Olympics, "ergonomics" category.

 

[shashbugu]

Regarding pricing:

Maybe they realized the benefit of the sensor not being on the side of the camera, so new model is pointing at the right direction. Hopefully the $2000 model without the record button or shaped like a chair is not next...to join BMCC, GH4 module, FS100/700 and others in Camera Special Olympics ergonomic category.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha that is way too funny.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

?..

 

[Michael Dalton]

at 3000$ it makes a great crash cam on a octocopter, or in a dangerous location. As any octocopter owner would probably say, it scares the shit out of me to send my epic up in the air. Even my scarlet for that matter. I need the pro version of resolve, so to me it's 2k.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

For studio it is understandable but Blair commented on the BMCC camera, the "cinema" companion with same ergonomically challenged design.

Simple: all the unemployed "cinematographers" are vocal on internet forums and create buzz about gear because they have nothing else to do. and maybe they even buy something. but make no mistake- the money is in broadcast and sales volumes are in the broadcast. BMC uses this and other forums as a marketing platform with free of charge marketing agents. Nothing wrong with that as long as you understand that this is not their primary target market- that's all

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yes, I understand.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

?..

Just to be sure, my comment was not related to you or your post but to the race to bottom in pricing, overflooding the market with half functional products.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Just to be sure, my comment was not related to you or your post but to the race to bottom in pricing, overflooding the market with half functional products.

Thanks Hrvoje, I just found it confusing, a bit tired.

 

[paul schefz]

found this footage:
https://vimeo.com/86359257
https://vimeo.com/86378280
i don't judge based on vimeo but this looks pretty nice to me.....

and since some people here keep comparing this to red: to put things into perspective: to power my epic for 90 min i need (still waiting) XL module and 2 XLs which comes to just about 2000 which really is the price of the BM (without resolve)...and i actually get a complete (of course not perfect just like anything else) camera.....and since i am talking about power.....i get a camera i can actually turn on and off (much faster) and that does not drain my battery when it is off....

 

[Mike Garrick]

Another interesting point is the sensors are smaller than industry specs in the case of the 4K variant 28% smaller than S35 standard .

Maybe less dollars = less sensor ; ) !

Format Width Height Diagonal ........BlackMagic Width Height Diagonal ..............Difference in Area
S16..... 12.52 7.41 14.55 ...............Pocket 12.48 7.02 14.31 .......................... -6%
4/3..... 19.21 10.8 22.00 ...............Cinema 15.81 8.88 18.13 ......................... -32%
S35.... 24.89 14.0 28.55 ...............Production 21.12 11.88 24.23.................... -28%

 

[David Kuhn]

I don't get the comparison to Red at all... it's like comparing a Honda Civic Si to an Acura NSX... both move you down the road, they're both sports oriented, and both are good vehicles for the money, and some people may even have both, but they're not really intended for the same audiences. I guess the fact that Red fans are comparing them AT ALL is a pretty big kudo for BM (you don't hear NSX folks comparing their cars to Civic's).

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

My issue with many of the newer cameras is their piss poor human-camera interface/ergonomics. The BMCC set a new low in that category and they deserve criticism for it.

Cheers - #19

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

My issue with many of the newer cameras is their piss poor human-camera interface/ergonomics. The BMCC set a new low in that category and they deserve criticism for it.

Cheers - #19

On the other hand, if you are a tv station cameraman you really appreciate these ergonomics... (on this camera in particular- I don't know about others..)

 

[paul schefz]

My issue with many of the newer cameras is their piss poor human-camera interface/ergonomics. The BMCC set a new low in that category and they deserve criticism for it.

Cheers - #19

i am definitely not a tv station cameraman but still like the ergonomics of the BM....maybe like is a little strong but which camera actually is truly ergonomic?
the biggest problem BM have is that they have the 5" touch screen built in so the design has to go from there....
i would like to see that screen tilt, the sides feature some kind of DSLR style "grip" (can't actually believe nobody has offered one) and the battery replaceable but again: nothing is perfect and the question is still how can they make that much camera for so little money...

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

I agree with Blair on the traditional cine ergonomics however- absolutely horrible for anything else than TV. This big LCD screen will never work in any outdoor setting, for shoulder mount, dolly, tripod narrative this is pretty hopeless...

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

On the other hand, if you are a tv station cameraman you really appreciate these ergonomics... (on this camera in particular- I don't know about others..)

That probably depends on the personal preferences and a type of projects.

Fixed monitor often requires bending down for accurate framing which is not really great for the back.
Tripod shooting while having to stand directly behind a camera is less productive and practical because you have trouble reaching lens and tripod legs are in the way. Larger studio setups which are operated while standing directly behind the camera have additional eye-leveled closely positoned monitors and camera control is on the handles. Option B is typical broadcast shoulder mount camera with operator standing on the smart side with one hand one the lens and other on a pan bar.

but which camera actually is truly ergonomic?
.

That depends on its purpose.

For shoulder and tripod shooting typical broadcast 2/3" cameras are the most ergonomic.