Blackmagic 4K for $2995 now?

[Justin Kirchhoff]

I'm not sure why you are speculating negatively. A 4k prores camera with global shutter, no matter how terrible the ergonomics are, at $2995 I'll buy 4, then buy their new cam at NAB as well.

I'll upgrade to Dragon for less.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

if prople worry about the EOL on a particular camera, they will NEVER get anything done..


almost all cameras are just as good as the other these days, and new camera turn around is perpetually moving closer and closer together.

just get something.. shoot with it till it falls apart, then get something new when that time comes. guarantee the majority of the film watching population couldn't pick apart a blackmagic 4k camera vs a dragon.. FACT

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

IMO the BMCC has piss poor ergonomics, and, struggles with low CRI and/or mixed light sources.

Unless the 4K variant brings improvements beyond a few more pixels, the price drop is lipstick on a pig in my book.

Cheers - #19

 

[Samir Patel]

Chill out everyone. Not everyone needs a RED and not everyone will jump over each other to sell their RED and buy 5 BMPCs. Everyone should focus on using the right tool for the right job. In the end I think BM has no impact on REDs bottom line not even on the Scarlet line. But I can definitely see a use for multiple BMPC cameras now for multicam shoots on the cheap (stuff that was never meant to go to the big screen and stuff that would make using a RED overkill). Now trade my Scarlet for a BMPC? NO Effing Way. One thing amazing about the Scarlet was like many have said before it was a gateway drug to the EPIC. I can fully kit out a scarlet and in the end if I needed EPIC frame rates I don't even need to buy one. I can just rent a brain and use all of my other Scarlet parts. I don't think you are going to see major features using the BM products on set. I do expect indie's to use them. But not all indie's. Some indie's will probably want to learn the RED workflow instead so they can work their way up to a tried and true Epic or now Dragon.

 

[Michael Hastings]

snip:

IMO the BMCC has piss poor ergonomics, and, struggles with low CRI and/or mixed light sources.
.....

Cheers - #19

sounds like my redone :wink::wink::smiley:

seriously, how are the ergonomics any worse than the redone or the epic for that matter? At least with the BMD ergonomics you get all those things I mentioned in my earlier post:

"It has onboard media (like the epic), onboard scratch audio, onboard battery, and onboard monitoring with no cables needed. You can certainly build it up "cine-style" since it has the same type of mounting screw holes as an epic on top and bottom to a very solid chassis. You can easily add cages, rods, nato rails, external microphones, external SDI LCDs or EVFs, batteries (pretty much any 12 to 30 volt battery can be adapted with a $3 connector, and hot swappable since the internal battery takes over if the external battery or ac adapter is disconnected). Further, it allows use of electronic Canon lenses right out of the box and can be fitted with adapters to allow use of numerous other "dumb" lenses."

and I forgot to mention it even has a protective door for the SSD modules (which by the way cost about one tenth of the cost of the same size RED SSDs.)

 

[Steve Sherrick]

IMO the BMCC has piss poor ergonomics, and, struggles with low CRI and/or mixed light sources.

Unless the 4K variant brings improvements beyond a few more pixels, the price drop is lipstick on a pig in my book.

Cheers - #19

In my opinion almost all of the cameras suffer in mixed lighting, especially low CRI situations.

The biggest issue I have with BMD is how they could overlook such basic things as in-camera formatting, remaing time on media, etc. That's why I think a focus on firmware and tweaking of color science will best help their reputation.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Out of the box, no cage or aks, the BMCC is perhaps the most awkward hand held camera I've ever picked up. In order to see the fixed LCD you have to hold the camera right in front of your face. Your hands have to somehow grip that smooth aluminum/polycarbonate shell - now try it with sweaty hands on those slick surfaces - then try holding it steady with one hand while you adjust focus.

Saying a camera has no worse ergonomics than the RedOne is probably not helping your case.

Fortunately, once any camera is sealed up in a UW housing the ergonomics equation is completely altered anyway ;-)

Cheers - #19

 

[Mike Garrick]

Having used the 2.5 K variant as a 2nd unit recently my biggest criticism ergonomically is the bloody screen in the great outdoors and battery life , or lack of it. Even with the provided tiny sun shade its almost impossible to see whats going on and because there is no wave form your shooting blind literally in strong light.

Of course all of this can all be overcome by hooking up a good evf and v mount system but this then moves the price way beyond $3k.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Out of the box, no cage or aks, the BMCC is perhaps the most awkward hand held camera I've ever picked up. In order to see the fixed LCD you have to hold the camera right in front of your face. Your hands have to somehow grip that smooth aluminum/polycarbonate shell - now try it with sweaty hands on those slick surfaces - then try holding it steady with one hand while you adjust focus.

Saying a camera has no worse ergonomics than the RedOne is probably not helping your case.

Fortunately, once any camera is sealed up in a UW housing the ergonomics equation is completely altered anyway ;-)

Cheers - #19

Let me just state the obvious since everyone is missing it:
This is a TV station studio setting camera for UHDTV and made for it.
big rear mounted LCD, tied to their switchers in their marketing as "perfect companion", live 4K output etc.. Do we really need any more hints here guys?!!?
Not to mention that in the studio setting camera does not need WDR since the lighting is 100% controlled by top professionals- broadcst engineers. And they are more than happy with 13 stops..

 

[Tarek salman]

At this moment blackmagic will not able beat red unless they get them DR up to 17 stop

 

[Michael Hastings]

Out of the box, no cage or aks, the BMCC is perhaps the most awkward hand held camera I've ever picked up. In order to see the fixed LCD you have to hold the camera right in front of your face. Your hands have to somehow grip that smooth aluminum/polycarbonate shell - now try it with sweaty hands on those slick surfaces - then try holding it steady with one hand while you adjust focus.

Saying a camera has no worse ergonomics than the RedOne is probably not helping your case.

Fortunately, once any camera is sealed up in a UW housing the ergonomics equation is completely altered anyway ;-)

Cheers - #19

Realistically "out of the box" the epic is not functional. ;-)

As Steve noted, I was also talking about the handling of lighting. And yes, I'm known mostly as an underwater guy, but I started out as a regular EFP style video guy and have done numerous and varied shoots having nothing to do with underwater: commercials, surgeries, helicopter shoots, oil rigs, resorts, police reenactments, corporate, NBA games and NFL insider shows, interviews, product promos, infomercials, IMAG jobs, etc. etc. and I don't know as any of those jobs would be the type where an epic would be much better ergonomically than a BMD. (Truthfully, neither is particularly good for eng/EFP)

As far as viewing, of course a fixed LCD isn't ideal for many situations but it is nice to have - always there, no cables to attach or break, and it seems pretty obvious to me that in the comparison to the red cameras it is easy to add an external evf or LCD if necessary - where it is your only option with r1/epic - and there are numerous relatively low cost monitor/evf options as good or better than the red products at much lower prices.

And BTW I totally agree with jacek's post, which is why I quoted Petty.

 

[Zeb B]

Philip Bloom, despite all of his "expertise" in camera technology, had no freaking idea what to do with the RED. I'm sorry, but he, in my eyes, isn't a person to look at when it comes to up and coming camera technologies.

Maybe he would have some expertise if his RED didn't completely melt down on him. Phil is the man - he shares his couple decades wisdom unconditionally and is very fair in his assessments of the gear he reviews. Move on my young friend

 

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

Seems to handle light pretty well.

Looks sharp and I really enjoy the motion of the pans.

It does have a global shutter

Also the BMC has some heft to it. I was with our Movi tech and it weighed in at 4.5lbs no media no lens

If I had an action scene or live performance and need more than 5 cameras this is a great way to go, at the same time so many Owner Ops you could do it Red for cheap. Depends on the client and gig.

Looking forward to NAB.

Also been hearing rumors of Apple not supporting ProRes cause they're working on a new h.265 codec so not sure where it'll but these cameras in the years to come

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Also been hearing rumors of Apple not supporting ProRes cause they're working on a new h.265 codec so not sure where it'll but these cameras in the years to come

If Apple were to drop support of ProRes anytime in the near future, they would sink themselves into oblivion when it comes to the production and postproduction industry. Too much invested in that codec currently. I can see them supporting and promoting h.265 but certainly as an addition and not subtracting ProRes. What they are looking to do is move away from Quicktime API. But that doesn't preclude ProRes.

 

[paul schefz]

why all the red comparisons? the BMC 4k cameras now 3000 incl resolve....see what you can buy at red.com for that....does it replace my epic because of that? no, of course not....
they have to compete with hacked 5DIII and the new pana GH4....in the end we all win....better products at lower prices....
but getting 5 or 6K in a small portable package shooting 60 or more fps....raw.... is still not that easy and therefore still more expensive....and red is still the only game in town doing just that....
but if i didn't already own a BMC 2.5K, i would probably get the 4K one...NOW....

 

[Samir Patel]

Now if only Canon announces a 4K 7DII at NAB for $2000 to compete with the GH4 but my magic 8 ball says NOT A CHANCE

 

[Mark Toia]

Any camera that beats 16+ stops , 16bit RAW, 6k, and gives me more than 100 FPS @6k and is as ruggard, smaller and lighter and cheaper than the current DRAGON.

Then I'll buy it....

Till then, those are the parameters to beat.

 

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

i feel ya paul where was this camera in 2008 lol i'd prefer this over a 5D any day

at the same time im already heavily invested in Red; i enjoy the workflow and flexibility

it's impressive BMC took all of canons sales, you can get into a camera for $1k or $2k and now $3k

ive been reading comments on blogs about this announcement and everyone is laughing about "now shipping" I guess they have a bad track record with the original BMC. Only time will tell once those first orders go through.

 

[Zeb B]

BMD . . . who really fuckin cares? That's like comparing a Subaru to Audi

 

[paul schefz]

BMD . . . who really fuckin cares? That's like comparing a Subaru to Audi

Both have very competent 4 wheel drive....probably the best 2 systems in the entire business....

Not sure about why Blackmagic is being bashed like this? I don't really care either way either but I don't see the point in looking down on it either....