Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BLACK LEVEL

D

Daniel Dávila

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Age
53
Website
www.kine-imagenes.cl
In Resolve you can monitor using video levels or full range data. In my projector, that means a huge difference in black levels. Since I'm targeting to a film print using a 3d lut, I'd like to use the the full range to get the most of the projector. My problem is that when I get out of Resolve and playback the rendered files in FCP, the black level is in video range and my images look flat. I think the answer is to grade in Resolve using video level to get compatibility with FCP, but I wonder if there's any way to display the same full range levels in both programs. I'm monitoring with the Decklink Extreme 3D.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Daniel
 
If you render to a RGB codec, you should get full levels in FCP I think. Try using Uncompressed RGB.
 
FCP is 8bit only rendering in RGB, so I'd if you're using FCP, I'd go with a YCbCr codec and video levels as that's really how it was designed to work.

For projection - does the projector have a setting for the levels of data that it expects?

Graeme
 
My path is decklink sdi - hdlink sdi to hdmi - hdmi into jvc rs-20.
I' m making a new calibration based on video levels and adjusted the contrast and bightness to have a good black and see the pluge.
The projector lets me select color space (rgb or ycbcr) but it just works in rgb despite what I configure in video out. I think it's hdlink that outputs only rgb 8 bit (even if I feed it with dual link sdi, the projector always tell me it's receiving 8 bit.)

I prefer ycbcr codecs if I'll pass in FCP, I tried aja 10 bit rgb and couldn't make a dissolve without gamma jumps and banding.

Thanks!
 
This is a subject that should be discussed and explained more on this thread since there is no much information written or shared either at the Resolve Manual or throughout the forum.

Can someone care to share more information and experiences on this topic?

Thanks,
 
A lot depends on your deliverables. If you're finishing for video delivery, then you're better off monitoring SMPTE levels. This way everything will look the same from grading all the way to delivery. BTW, using dual SDI means, that you're monitoring 444 signal vs 422 and not 10 bit, vs 8 bit. You don't really need to do that for monitoring. Being 10 bit is much important, than using 444 sampling. Unfortunately, all this doesn't really help with gamma issues, but at least this should get you a bit closer. I also would pay close attention to the proper calibration of your monitors.
Personally, whenever I have to use QT, I use AJA or BM 10 bit RGB codec, as they both allow for full and legal levels...
 
Short answer:

When using Resolve your monitoringsettings must match your output format.

YUV Outputs (QT YUV, ProRes etc..): Normally scaled legal video
RGB Outputs (QT RGB, DPX, TIFF, OpenEXR etc...): Unscaled full data range

I really think this should be better explained in the manual as doing it wrong will give you wrong levels on output.

There is also an issue if you need to deliver both YUV and RGB files (f.ex RGB files to VFX if they ask for it). I ended up doing it inn Full range but grading everything within legal levels and giving the FCP people a QT RGB while the VFX guys got DPX.
 
Sure if you work for video, you have to monitor in video levels, my issue is I'm grading for film out (so I should go full scale/rgb) but when I review the results in FCP the blacks are higher and washed using the same LUT in a external HDlink.
Right now I'm using Resolve in video levels to match both images, but, is there a way to make FCP + Decklink to monitor full scale?
 
Graeme Nattress said:
FCP is 8bit only rendering in RGB, so I'd if you're using FCP, I'd go with a YCbCr codec and video levels as that's really how it was designed to work.

For projection - does the projector have a setting for the levels of data that it expects?

Graeme
Click to expand...

Graeme,

How does the Red map color levels, full swing or studio swing? The files I've looked at actually seem to be 64 to 940 (using a ten bit scale for the sake of simplicity) not 0 to 1023. But I can't be certain using the histograms in RedCine-X.

Thanks much.
 
In RC-X we're outputting full range images to files, like dpx or tiff. Quicktime is effectively 64 to 940 (equivalent) as that's the video spec. Quicktime is handled by conversion from the R3D so the mapping used is governed by the quicktime request, be it 8bit, or 32 float, for instance.

Graeme
 
from my test :
Live monitor :

If i select in SCRATCH Legal SDI signal (64 940) I get the same image on RCX and FCP and Flame And resolve (when resolve set to Scaled ),
so i assume that RCX , FCP , FLame have the SDI set to Legal (SCARTCH and Resolve let you decide )

When i export File : every app export the full range image, but the important element ,is How the destination software will Scale it ...
Example " if i grade in Scratch using Legal SDI ,than grade crashing th eblack to 0 , than export DPX , those DPX will have the black to 0 , but if i open them on flame (that seems to have a scaled SDI signal ) those DPX looks the same of scratch , so no need to make it legal compressing (scaling) the file ...

In th same Way when i export a QT out from scratch and i watched it on QT plaeyer i have the same continuity , so i assume that QT scale (or display?) the image to legal ...but i kind of cannot get why , considering that QT should be web based than allowing Full Range ...

PS even the default SDI of my quadro card in Win 7 is scaled legal ...

g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
from my test :
Live monitor :

If i select in SCRATCH Legal SDI signal (64 940) I get the same image on RCX and FCP and Flame And resolve (when resolve set to Scaled ),
so i assume that RCX , FCP , FLame have the SDI set to Legal (SCARTCH and Resolve let you decide )

When i export File : every app export the full range image, but the important element ,is How the destination software will Scale it ...
Example " if i grade in Scratch using Legal SDI ,than grade crashing th eblack to 0 , than export DPX , those DPX will have the black to 0 , but if i open them on flame (that seems to have a scaled SDI signal ) those DPX looks the same of scratch , so no need to make it legal compressing (scaling) the file ...

In th same Way when i export a QT out from scratch and i watched it on QT plaeyer i have the same continuity , so i assume that QT scale (or display?) the image to legal ...but i kind of cannot get why , considering that QT should be web based than allowing Full Range ...

PS even the default SDI of my quadro card in Win 7 is scaled legal ...

g
Click to expand...

Hi,

Where do you set the SDI signal for scratch? Nvidia panel or sdi config in Scratch?
 
hi ido ,

from the scrathc SDI config panel (that take control of the Nvidia )
use 709 for scaled
use 709 Full for Full signal

g
 
Graeme Nattress said:
In RC-X we're outputting full range images to files, like dpx or tiff. Quicktime is effectively 64 to 940 (equivalent) as that's the video spec. Quicktime is handled by conversion from the R3D so the mapping used is governed by the quicktime request, be it 8bit, or 32 float, for instance.

Graeme
Click to expand...

So, if I export footage as QT 10 bit uncompressed from Resolve, graded using 0-1023, it will be scaled to 64-940? Need clarification since this is kind of illogical... ;-(
 
Once things hit quicktime it's hard to know exactly what happens.

Graeme
 
Oliver Peters said:
Now that's a quote that should be chiseled in stone and hung on every edit/grading bay wall!

- Oliver
Click to expand...

Chiseled in stone and the stone thrown at whoever at Apple is responsible for the long, drawn-out fiasco that is Quicktime Pro.
 
Luis Otero said:
So, if I export footage as QT 10 bit uncompressed from Resolve, graded using 0-1023, it will be scaled to 64-940? Need clarification since this is kind of illogical... ;-(
Click to expand...

If you export 10Bit422 QT's, your full range gets scaled to 64-940 due to QT and the codec parameters.
If you export to apple none compression, the full range stays full range because none is RGB.

If you open these 2 Qt's in QT, the blacks in these will display as the same.

QT is definitely not WYSIWYG.

TomT
Telecine Ass't.
NYC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top