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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BIRACY.COM (Crowdfunded Filmmaking)

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eew! i'd rather deal with a few dorks at a studio who tell me where to shoot, who to cast and what to change in a scene etc than with a whole crowd of dorks. :D

one reason i go and see a movie is i want to see the director's 'vision' of the script.
 
crowdfunding_fan said:
DR APPAZZO, crowdfunding has been a success. Have you checked out the film THE AGE OF STUPID from the UK?
Click to expand...

No I have not been aware of that film, but now that I am I will surely take a look. Thanks for the heads up.

Please be aware that I am not making judgements of anyones ideas or sites that offer different routes to financing, I am merely suggesting that people be careful.

In my expereince, things that seem to good to be true usually are.

Best of luck to everyone involved, I truly do wish anyone who tries to make any film the best of luck and the greatest of success.
 
Hi Norm,

Just a thought, I own an ActionCam and live in your area.

I like taking walks in the park or along the beach with the ActionCam, just for the fun of it. It doesn't matter. PM me next time you need to take a walk, even if it's just to have a steady option. I would be glad to come.

Dexter
 
Message from Biracy CEO

Message from Biracy CEO

Hello,

I did a search this morning on our company and found a lot of discussion going on here; however, I am a bit taken aback by the amount of people who are blatantly calling us a ponzi scheme or a pyramid. If you actually take the time to read the site you will see that it is actually structured as a coop that also allows members to earn sales commissions (if they so choose) for signing up members. Perhaps most of you here are not familiar with how sales agents fund films that you work on in Hollywood or other parts of the world but I can assure you that our model is simply a micro version of this, and that the fans themselves become the studio by preselling the contracts.

In addition to this we are offering a game like scenario that allows the fans to be actively involved in the production by voting on scenarios put forward by the department heads. Let's use the DP as an example. Perhaps, during previs, the DP asks the crowd to help him choose his film stock by showing 2 examples of how film stocks can be exposed and altered cinematically. The DP is OK with either option as he/she has chosen the options. The crowd votes and we go in the direction of a majority. Everyone who votes...increases their ownership in the film as we assign them points for participation. Those who vote - get the gravy! These points are redeemed by box office performance, and NO you cannot pay cash out of the box office, as that is a violation of the SEC. What you can do with these points is redeem them for swag, buying other film memberships that will be listed on the site that are being developed by other filmmakers, or you can donate the points to the charities that we will be supporting.

People who work hard and hustle can make some good money on this project; however, its not necessary to sell memberships to have fun on this project.

As for the Pyramid effect...do your homework. Take another look. I thought DP's were mathematical people.

If anyone has any direct questions for me please feel free to reach me at dgeertz@biracy.com

Thanks for your time.

David Geertz
Founder + CEO
The Biracy Project
www.biracy.com
 
We are mathematical people. That's why it's painfully obvious that while I like the concept in general I also know that a Pyramid referral system is impossible to sustain. Every pyramid has a base. Your website is sound except for the part about "make money". People you will not make money off this system unless you're in the overwhelming minority. Treat it like gambling. The reason it isn't a pyramid scheme on the macroscale is because unlike the microscale you don't get beyond 2-3 tiers of financing. In order to even fund a small film--let's say $50k you'll need: $50k/$18 = ~2,700 members. Once you need that many people then you're quickly going to need to tap >3 tiers and that's when pyramid investments fall apart.

It's a fun way to raise money and I'm sure a number of people will make some beer money on the side. But the overwhelming majority will not get their money back. As long as people are spending their money for entertainment and to support independent cinema then be my guest. Just know that it's all for fun and don't expect to get back a return.
 
Hey Scooter...or Abook or whoever you are, this is a real name forum, I posted last time, but get that updated. I Respect what your doing but your not setting yourself up to be respected here until your fix your name. David has it right..... cheers
 
It's tough enough having one client looking over your shoulder while you're trying to be creative. I can't imagine what it's like with thousands.
 
Gavin some clarity on your point

Gavin some clarity on your point

The Biracy Project as it is clearly stated within all the videos and documentation is only the beta and first film of this crowdfunding platform. You are right in saying that there is a ceiling on each film and that the potential to earn money will run out as the cap on each budget is met. That being said, our policy is that anyone who cannot or does not reach their 3rd level will be granted another film on the site at no charge and a position closer to the beginning of the raise. This is a way of ensuring that our members are getting fair value for their money and being given ample opportunity to earn a commission if they so choose.

I think you may be confusing this system with a front end loaded MLM scheme where you need to buy a bunch of credits and then sell them to your friends. This is not the case. Our film is 25 bucks of which, 15 goes to the film and is held in escrow until all funds are met. If for any reason the film budget is not met, the member gets this portion back and is entitled to keep any referral fees that they have earned which amounts in total to 32% of the membership. We take 8% and that 8% is broken down into 5% to us and 3% to transaction processors.

I'm still surprised as to why people are being so negative towards this and using terms like Pyramid. Its a coop with an affiliate marketing program attached. You don't have to sell a thing. You're a prebuying a film for 25 bucks and getting a chance to earn part of the box office revenue by being involved in an online game. Why is this so wrong to you?

Why don't you email me directly so I can have our business affairs group send you any and all details on the project? Better yet...go the site, or youtube and watch some of the videos that provide a lot of the information before making allegations that you can't defend.

without prejudice
David Geertz
Founder + CEO
The Biracy Project
 
I would be much more apt to go out on a limb and support something like this if there were no "make money" tactics. I mean... really? Are we all just a buncha crackjobs that can't make an honest wage doing something productive?

Financials aside, how is this not fooling the populous into believing they are involved? Any other process would compromise the film. The flaws in the pure democratic process of majority rules become evident at this point. Look at the kind of "films" the majority likes, the kind of "humor" the majority likes... etc.

I stand up and say it's not about making money.
 
david geertz said:
I'm still surprised as to why people are being so negative towards this and using terms like Pyramid. Its a coop with an affiliate marketing program attached. You don't have to sell a thing. You're a prebuying a film for 25 bucks and getting a chance to earn part of the box office revenue by being involved in an online game. Why is this so wrong to you?

David Geertz
Founder + CEO
The Biracy Project
Click to expand...

It's not wrong. It's kind of a fun idea. What's wrong is that plastered in giant 80point font across the front of your page is "Make Money".

It would be like a Casino having a giant banner out front saying "Unemployed? Come make money and pay bills!" I don't have any problems with gambling I have problems with marketing a pyramid scheme as a way to "MAKE MONEY" even if it's a fun little game on the side. Even the lotto here in Washington is required to have a little disclaimer "Lotto is not a sound investment."


EDIT:
How about this for a slogan:
MAKE FILMS
EARN POINTS
BUILD AN AUDIENCE
 
david geertz said:
...Those who vote - get the gravy! These points are redeemed by box office performance, and NO you cannot pay cash out of the box office, as that is a violation of the SEC. What you can do with these points is redeem them for swag, buying other film memberships that will be listed on the site that are being developed by other filmmakers, or you can donate the points to the charities that we will be supporting.
...
Click to expand...

Swag? Are you kidding? T-shirts and MP3 players?

And since when do investors make good creative decisions? And since when is a director able to say "either of these film stocks is fine with me" and let some mob choose based on website jpg samples?

I'm not saying this scheme is manipulative or dishonest. It just sounds like a bad idea. I would pay money to see whatever "film" comes out of this malarky just to witness a "film by committee". You know what? This is how they make a bad movie in Hollywood.
 
This has been a good exercise for me as the CEO of the project. I came onto this site as there was some real negative language about the process and now I think we have all come to an agreement that its not the process for you. I understand why creative types would shy away from this process as it does offer up some of the process in a vote to the crowd. Keep in mind that all votes, polls and submissions of crowdsourced applications are decided by the department heads first.

The other key thing to remember here is that this is about the fans participating in a "social experiment in crowdfunded filmmaking" We hope that the film we deliver is daring, innovative and compelling. I guess we'll see....

Also keep in mind that no one is claiming that you can quit your day job by joining Biracy. That being said...if you buy a membership for 25 bucks and tell 3 friends, by the time your 3 levels are complete you might have made enough money to pay your cable bill, or take friends out for a beer. Its affiliate money and its somewhat passive. Its like putting your friends film banner on your blog and having an Amazon affiliate account.

Lastly to Paul Herrin: If its not about making money, how do you expect to get paid for your time? I don't need you to come out and donate your gear and time Paul. Its this attitude that brings the term "starving artist" to the center stage and its the reason why over the last 100 years money people have controlled the film business. They know that you're just an artist and you'll work for nothing. We built this for that reason.

I encourage all of you to check out the videos on the homepage that are there now. By the way...What do you think of Norm Li's video he shot for us? That was a long day....

here's the link to the progress page. www.biracy.com/progress

thanks for all your feedback - now go buy a membership!

David Geertz
Founder + CEO
The Biracy Project
www.biracy.com
 
wow, sweet - thanks, david, for the shoutout!

haha, I was just thinkin - I kinda felt bad for raggin on your project like that - even if it is essentially a scam (or personally distasteful), you've put a lot of personal effort into it. so i apologize for being impatient.

I simply meant to suggest that our motivation is not driven by this complex to "make money." As if then we could finally be successful and content. Neither do I have a "starving artist" complex. I don't mean to imply that the currency trade be abandoned. There are other ways to fund a film that don't involve the big studios. You see, in the mart of competitive commerce...

I just don't know, Dave, this whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Somewhere between the majority rule and the financial parade. I wish you the best if you truly are sincere. What would interest someone like me is... do the change to points instead of the "make money" slogan. It might be kinda cool to earn cheap little trinkets, but I don't want to feel like I'm part of a scheme in any way - and at this point I would. Also, the false implications of involvement are troublesome on two fronts. Either one is not really involved, or they really do make all the big decisions in an appeal to the majority and you've got a junk film that doesn't work because the majority knows nothing about how to make a movie. I would be much more inclined to participate if these parameters were sorted out. I'm not saying you have to just for me - I'm giving you constructive criticism. It's these aspects that simply scream "pyramid", "con", "sheme" etc. - obviously not only to me. Addressing the issue on your site makes it even worse.
 
If you want to "crowd fund" a film...

Make a movie with NO budget. Make it GOOD (read Rebel Without a Crew for details and inspiration)

Get it on the local festival circuit.

Call univestities, talk to the office of student activities. See if you can arrange a screening.

Sell DVDs. Whore them out everywhere.

Use the profit to make your REAL movie.

Don't put the fate of your movies funding in the hands of kids who won't pay $.99 for an mp3.


If it doesnt involve your blood, sweat, and tears, and sounds too good to be true...

IT IS.

- $.02
 
David you brought up the next question I was going to ask. Does Biracy have a mission statement on how it's going to crew its films?

Often the only way to make a $40k film is to not pay anyone.

Also the escrow is a good system and could be more clearly noted on the website. But if you don't reach your trigger point to feasibily execute the film... and you return everything except for the pyramid money... aren't you just left with a pyramid scheme? The members get no T-Shirt, No DVD, No say in how a movie is made they just are out $9 in a pyramid scheme. One more reason to throw out the cash referral system.
 
Gavin,

That's a great question about our escrow system. All funds are held until a minimum is met. This minimum is 500K, and at this point something will be produced. If after one year we do not reach 500K we will refund 60% of your membership and you are entitled to keep your referrals. We're comfortable with this, and the people who join our site know that that is a small risk to be a part of in the event that this site does not take off. Our goal is to reach 1,000,000 fans so that we have enough revenue to build a film using cast and crew under the collective agreement with the union people who have worked on shows with us in the past.

Rick Presas,

Your comments are duly noted. Good luck with your films. When all the people who put time for free into your film come a knockin' and ask for 2 weeks of your time for free, I hope your prepared to reciprocate the offer. If 30 people help you...aren't you obliged to help 30 people? Have fun with your mortgage payments. Unless of course, you don't intend on helping them. This of course would make you a user and a taker...or even worse...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

By the way, if you read the fine print on Rodriguez you will discover that only the trailer was made for the film and that he needed 2M+ from a studio to actually make the picture of which they made a lot of decisions regarding the creative. He also made next to no revenue from the box office from this film.
 
Joe G. said:
Biracy guy explains his funny money

Real money goes in ... what comes out?

I like the idea of different models. This is not one I'm willing to risk money on. The "Kaps" are worth whatever Biracy dude decides they are worth, at his whim.

Sounds like a breeding ground for a dictatorship...
Click to expand...


Joe,

We are giving 75% of the film's revenue back to the members. The cast, crew and web team will hold onto the other 25%. That is clearly defined in the terms of use on the site. What you receive is based on your participation, and how you interact with the site. we've even gone so far as to build our KRILL system (the points you earn that generate your KAPS) based on an hourly labor based system. For example: If you post a vote on the site to choose the best trucker hat from a series of 4 hats that the costume designer likes you get points based on that time you spent voting. We based our labor system on a wage of $60/hr. If we feel you should be able to read the poll and answer it in 1 minute, that would equate to $1 dollar or 100 krill points. All these points added up determine your earning potential out of the box office. We add up all the points and divide it by all of the film's revenues (including all ancillaries) and put those funds back into your account in the form of KAPS.

KAPS are a shortened version of the word SoKap, which is the engine we are building for people like you to fund your own films. People who have KAPS in their account will be able to go to JOE page on SoKap and us these points to fund your film. There is no dictatorship within the system. We take a fee of 8% for helping you raise funds for your film. The system is adaptable to allow filmmakers to adjust their sign up fees, downline levels, and payouts to fans. We take no ownership or distributions from your film unless you choose to market the film off of our website or through our fulfillment deal for DVD.

The Biracy Project is the first film being put on the engine and it is a BETA test. That's why we are listening to your comments.

Keep the comments coming....

David Geertz
Founder + CEO
The Biracy Project
www.biracy.com
 
Dunno about this one.

Dunno about this one.

Sounds sketchy to me,

I mean if my goal was to get 1000000 members at $25 dollars a shot i know right away for building a 10k+ website I would be getting a 2 million dollar return on 8% management fees. The only cost is maintaining the fantasy. The film flops and its all good. forgive me for being negative, i'm just thinking what id do because i'm human.

better yet, if i was in charge id have complete control of the database, id know who buys what and have all their emails. i would just set up a series of titan accounts and become the tier 6 user and no onw would know the difference. out of the 32% id make a slick percentage, say 12% because i control the top tiers. all this very small cost because i hold the information.

So it seems a bit out of the place when the first thing i see on the main page is "make money" and i reason very quickly that the management is making $5 million off of a bunch of small little people who may be exploited in a variety of ways. (of course the folks at biracy are 100% honest and would never interact in the system like that so we should trust them..... until i saw the video of the CEO registering.....)

lots of people are just people who really just want to watch a good indie film and not pay $50-$70 for two people+parking+food. you cant turn a pirate into a buyer because they dont care about making films, they care about making filmwatching cheaper.

on that note, Geertz here does make a good point. cutting the management and lawyers and their outrageous costs out of the film business is a great idea, just maybe not with the completely see through ponziness.

find a way to automate the overhead and ill go pay to watch them more often in theater because they are cheaper!

Not trying to be mean
 
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