Big Change...

[guy fancher]

i'm very happy that the red team doesn't feel trapped by normal press release etiquette. yes they just made a big announcement, but they have very quickly made some new discoveries and i am very glad they're not waiting to share them with us.

its true, other companies like perhaps apple or sony will artificially create large gaps between releasing information on technological advances. if red did that we'd be screwed. would you rather wait 3 more months to hear about the evolution of their cameras or would you rather get the information as quickly as they can organize their plan?

keep up the good work red team.

 

[M Korek]

RED Virtual VTR

RED Virtual VTR

I have to disagree with the opinion that Red should concentrate on camera only and that people have to resolve workflow problems on their own. this would have been true if Redcode was an truly simple open free format, releasing the SDK is good but not enough.

In a post facility, we don't have the time to give a Red workflow crash course to each freelancer editor brought by a client or to assign a DIT the whole day as workflow baby sitter. we need an upstream, backroom workflow solution where the "apparent front room" workflow is a regular one.
We need a solid Red virtual VTR. not a RedRay gadget,

Think of a standalone system (like the old Abekas or Accom DDRs), this system is attached to a big,modular storage on which you put all the Red footage, it has the hardware (REDCODE 24-500 CHIP) for realtime output up to 2k (with SD/720/1080/HD/SR options), regular RS422 machine control and advanced TC/metadata output options (through Network), the Red_VTR is also acessible by the stations on the network as regular media server.
(15 years ago it was feasible with Abekas using a 10 base T connection)

NLEs (any NLE even with no R3d support or plugin) will ingest whatever resolution needed for offline and later on they can online up to 2k using the regular workflow.in this configuration, the grading suite can also have a high speed connection with the virtual VTR... the possibilities are endless.

Assimilate are almost there if they manage to overcome the "huge difficulty" of serial machine control but if RED can build this REDCODE CHIP decoder board or PCI card or DDR or even selling the chip to be integrated with an AJA or bluefish cards, we won't be needing a 50K computer just to have realtime 2K playback limited to crash record. Expect worst performance with RedCode 225 and up...

Am I the only one with such a reactionnaire, anti-revolutionary, petit bourgeois request ?

That's what I'd call a Big Change.

 

[Martin Saxer]

My guess: Monstro got ahead quicker than expected. Mysterium X is skipped. That would indeed be amazing and get the RED's close to the dynamic range of film much sooner than we expected...

 

[Minisergium]

Please Jim, think of making modules that might fit a future lightweight smaller brain. That will make the solution affordable in terms of size and weight for all kinds of pros: cinema makers and photographers, including them who need to move (always or sometimes) with a small and lightweight equipment... Thanks for your work.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

It is imperative that we make the final decisions as late in the game as possible for two reasons:

1. We are learning a ton everyday.
2. Technology is advancing so quickly.

I hope you will maintain this principle by not being dependent on corporate, administrative, stockholder and other usual limiting b-s.
It's a pleasure watching RED evolve in a healthy way.

 

[SteveLucas]

((sigh))

I'm glad there's somewhere to go for good news these days. CNN aint cutting it.
Bring on the redvolution.

 

[David Rasberry]

So I have been following these threads because the idea of a Red being the last camera I'll ever own is thrilling. It's a brilliant resurrection of the concept behind why film cameras from 50 years ago are still used today.

Being currently on a shoot with the Red has made it even more apparent that you are a company that I wish every other company in the world was more like. Imagine if our world market ran off the idea of open feedback in technological advancement and the end user as the number one priority...

I know the suggestions for new features are pretty tapped by now and getting a little redundant, but there were a couple things I'd really like to see in a camera someday and you guys over at Red just might be the only ones to listen.

1. Since the camera has a huge software element to it, it would be awesome to allow someone to either use an existing shot, or upload a still image and super impose it for match frames, or video for match moves.

2. Also, if there was a way to add one push iris and/or focus bookmarks this would be an amazing feature. I know that with non electronically controlled lenses this wouldn't be doable, but if there was a way to preset your lens adjustments, then tap a button multiple times for multiple focus marks or iris settings on a handheld shot it would be invaluable in situations where a focus puller would be an impossibility, or where there would need to be a sudden change in exposure during a shot.

Panasonic's new Lumix G1 has an interesting focus feature. You can assign autofocus to track an object in the frame in software. That and the LCOS electronic viewfinder make it a very interesting camera.

 

[Steven Becket]

My guess: Monstro got ahead quicker than expected. Mysterium X is skipped. That would indeed be amazing and get the RED's close to the dynamic range of film much sooner than we expected...

Many feel the same..but wouldnt that meen a rise in cost?

 

[Johan Malmsten]

I have to disagree with the opinion that Red should concentrate on camera only and that people have to resolve workflow problems on their own. this would have been true if Redcode was an truly simple open free format, releasing the SDK is good but not enough.

In a post facility, we don't have the time to give a Red workflow crash course to each freelancer editor brought by a client or to assign a DIT the whole day as workflow baby sitter. we need an upstream, backroom workflow solution where the "apparent front room" workflow is a regular one.
We need a solid Red virtual VTR. not a RedRay gadget,

Think of a standalone system (like the old Abekas or Accom DDRs), this system is attached to a big,modular storage on which you put all the Red footage, it has the hardware (REDCODE 24-500 CHIP) for realtime output up to 2k (with SD/720/1080/HD/SR options), regular RS422 machine control and advanced TC/metadata output options (through Network), the Red_VTR is also acessible by the stations on the network as regular media server.
(15 years ago it was feasible with Abekas using a 10 base T connection)

NLEs (any NLE even with no R3d support or plugin) will ingest whatever resolution needed for offline and later on they can online up to 2k using the regular workflow.in this configuration, the grading suite can also have a high speed connection with the virtual VTR... the possibilities are endless.

Assimilate are almost there if they manage to overcome the "huge difficulty" of serial machine control but if RED can build this REDCODE CHIP decoder board or PCI card or DDR or even selling the chip to be integrated with an AJA or bluefish cards, we won't be needing a 50K computer just to have realtime 2K playback limited to crash record. Expect worst performance with RedCode 225 and up...

Am I the only one with such a reactionnaire, anti-revolutionary, petit bourgeois request ?

That's what I'd call a Big Change.

Actually now that you mention it. I have had the thought of a "Red-iola" or "Red-beck" or something like that. Which would be a stripped down edit-bay with all the features found on a flatbed edit-suite for film. It would have a custom-built OS that included the NLE as a part of the core. Hardware-guaranteed to support up to 4K realtime previews of sequences.

Only bare minimum would be done with this. Only the things you would do in a 35mm edit suite. Straight cuts and maybe fades. ANY compositing would be done elsewhere on a more suited machine. And by that I mean titles, double-exposures and all that. Also, No elaborate sound mixing... You either use the sound that comes with the clip or assign another soundtrack if you have gotten it through post-sound... And that's it.

Output would be HDMI's and DVI's for output to monitoring devices up to 4K. Coupled with surround sound for those tracks that has been mixed before being inputted into the machine. Input would be red-drives, third party drives using Ethernet or other high speed connection.

Am I the only one that would love to have one of these? I thought about this sollution after playing around with REDcine, thinking... wouldn't it be cool if they would do a machine something like I outlined above? It wouldn't have even a quarter of the features in either FCP or Premiere or Avid... but man... what it would do. it would do soooooooooo much better. Anyone want to build me one of those? And it shouldn't have to cost me both the shirt, arm and half a leg right?

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

I'm back again to the forum with thoughts that Mysterium-X is gonna start to ship by Christmas 24th in the incarnation of RED TWO aka Scarlet 2/3" with fixed zoom lens that has a vibration reduction, 3K, ASA 500, DR 12+ and a price will be below 3K.

I suppose that would be big news, as the fixed-lens model was scheduled to be one of the last Scarlets to be released. But considering that Red was reportedly still struggling with some design issues in order to bring its price as close to $3K as possible, it seems unlikely that they'd be able to ship only three weeks after announcing its price. Shaving ten months or so off the schedule would mean that they would be going from scrapping the old design to shipping the finished product in about three months (the initial redesign decision happened in September).

A couple of other points. A sensor's dynamic range cannot exceed its bit depth, and Mysterium-X is a 12-bit sensor, so it cannot have a DR of more than 12 stops (Jim said maybe 11+). The other thing is that releasing Scarlet early -- even by December -- doesn't add up to "everything has changed" (emphasis mine). Of course, Jim might be indulging in a little hyperbole.

 

[Bing Bailey]

RED is not the last camera any of us will ever own. I suspect its the last brand of camera we'll ever own but I think jim is going to push and push and push until this thing bests and surpasses film.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think jim is going to push and push and push until this thing bests and surpasses film.

Sure. But why stop there?

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Sure. But why stop there?

Heheh.

 

[Jonatas Kerr de Oliveira]

New announcement on Dec. 3rd. Everything has changed... just as we promised.
Jim
__________________
"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

Okay... just wondering... did you guys readed Jim´s signature? camera specs have already changed... just remains the delivery dates!
What about Scarlet/Epic being released earlyer?!?

 

[Paul Brand]

This is what makes RED unique

This is what makes RED unique

...

We have also learned that we need to keep our program as flexible as possible so upgrades can be done easily. We really do want Scarlet or EPIC to be your last camera purchase. Then, you can upgrade as we make modules better (expect that) and as you need them (not before).

...
Jim

Thanks for treating us the way you want to be treated. It will be so refreshing to have a video camera that still makes great pictures years from now. Sort of like taking out my old Nikon FM still camera (which still takes great pictures after all these years). But different in that the RED can be upgraded and used in whatever standards are best for the application.

The overall quality, modular system and long-term thinking to keep the camera's useful life in decades rather than months is what really draws me to RED. Having an upgrade path to start out modestly with a relatively small professional sensor and move to other formats is really a great plan.
Being able to use existing good glass (in several mounts) and adapting to new recording formats and media are challenges, but they make the camera so much more useful. Keeping it affordable makes it accessible to more filmmakers.

Keep thinking different.
paul

 

[Clayton Talmon]

Wow! We're on a move again. Great!

And since we are, I have a request/idea.

Jim, in the spirit of the old Nikon - Nikonis V - would it be possible for an extreme Scarlet that could be used in extreme conditions? Something that could handle one meter depths, heavy rain, hard wind, sand, etc... A fixed lens crash cam. Might weigh more and have some screw down "o" ringed parts and could take a real licking. We would bolt it onto to skis, surf boards, plane wings, you get the idea.

Or, can you give us a bullet proof remote head that could tie back to the brain?

I know it's early days but maybe you could factor some of that into to your design process.

Thanks for everything and keep pushing. It's a great ride!

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

What a fun ride... eh?

Jim

Yes. :biggrin:

Keep up the good work.

 

[Brock S.]

I'm crapping my pants here...

I hardly ever post here but just wanted to say i'm looking forward to the announcement and wanted to thank Jim personally for dealing with so many people as well as he does. He's a great business man and is literally making his own paths where no one has ever been before. It's amazing there hasn't been more major hitches it such unknown territory.

Kudos to you Jim and the wonderful, dedicated team behind you!

I speak for the community when we wish you guys a great Thanksgiving weekend!

Warmest Regards,
Brock Smith

 

[Humberto Rivera]

617 As a 3D Camera

617 As a 3D Camera

I was thinking the other day, if the 617 frame is 186 X 56 mm, and what if the 186 was split in half for two frames side by side, then the frame sizes would be 93 X 56 mm. They would be right next to each other.

But what kind of lens? It would have to be TWO Red mounted Lens on the same plate, with the focus in the middle, one turning to the right and one turning to the left. It would have a simple synchronization device, like a starting mark, once locked down they would travel together as Focus was followed.

The split can then be adjusted by the computer when ready to do so. All the synchronization problems would be a thing of the past, because the frames are in the same file! For viewing the camera can have two Monitoring devices that are either attached as one, or two different ones.

The Camera would then be a true IMAX camera, WITHOUT all the bulk of the IMAX camera system, and the huge FILM EXPENSE that would be incurred. Just in the film saving, the camera could pay for itself. In addition you would have instant feedback on your images, rather than waiting for film to arrive from a distant location.

Footage can then meet three criteria’s, (A) Footage shot ALL on location; (B) Background plates shot on-locations and foregrounds in a stage; and (C) The Special Effects, CG like any other film, Resolution Independent!

From IMAX to releasing on 35mm film, or DVD, be-it Blue Ray or whatever they invent in the future. It’s in the can, and edited already. The Film is in the computer waiting for whatever the future comes up with next!

Just an Idea!

 

[Zhibo Lai]

Jim's motto is everything in life changes, including specs and delivery dates.. People get frustrated and annoyed when they forget this Red motto. We all get so caught up in the hype and anticipation that when changes come at us so fast, we lose hold of what is real and what we can expect.

Even with the 3rd annoucnment, I think the hype and exciment won't be nearly as high, as people can't be sure if changes will be made again a few weeks later.

I think as long as the delivery dates are kept reasonably close in 2009, the majority of fans won't be dissapointed one bit. We just have to remeber the motto of change and not to get too hung up on particular specs and prices. After all Red changes have always been for the better.

I welcome change. Everything in life changes, not just Red cameras, but everything.