BeSteady FOUR Thread

[Casey McBeath]

well I spoke to soon!

Ryan, they reached out to me last night. i'll be able to help you. Let'st start chatting about how and what needs to be done to get you covered. I'm in LA but travel frequently to lower Riverside County.

My email is DPMcBeath [at] Gmail [you know the rest]

 

[Greg Garay]

An update from me:

I’ve stayed quiet for the last 2 weeks as I had a PM discussion with Peter and gave him a final 14 days to refund me - based on the scenarios I outlined here in this thread. I promised him I would refrain from talking about the f*&^k-up here on Reduser while they worked on this refund. I didn’t have much faith in it working, but I did give them a full 14 days to work it out (14 days after 3 years that is!).

Result: on the due day (today) Peter emails me (the only email from him while I was waiting) and said ‘our lawyers have sent a request to the tax office. Its summer break here now , so don’t expect an answer from Polish tax office until September.’

So there it is. Yet another Peter/BeSteady/ACR conman trick. Push back the promise date another few months - even after you give a final, final deadline. Move the shells again. Make a promise for something in a few months (but of course subject to changes and possibly no answer ever).

As ‘proof’ that Polish Tax office is a big scary roadblock to everything, Peter’s email included a link to a newspaper article about the Polish Tax office being tough and bankrupting a company for doing accounting that was not quite right. Thing is - it was a massive Polish company dealing with tens of millions of dollars worth of stock, retail outlets, stock market listing… Hardly a comparison to ACR who has sold about 60 units and works out of a run down house in the country hills of Warsaw. Just another conman game to compare what they are doing to other, legitimate companies to make it all seem real.

Some ask how we all got into this mess. We should have seen it coming…? Well, BeSteady was a UK registered company. They were selling another lite version of the stabiliser before they decided to market this version. So not like we were going out on the thinnest limbs… But then BeSteady was bought out by a Polish company, ACR, who moved it all to Poland - well out of reach of normal legal systems. So thats how we got here!

Oh, and most of the people from BeSteady now work with ACR at all levels (from management down).

So these guys at ACR keep telling me in emails how great they are because they didn’t buy the units from BeSteady that were paid for by us Redusers. They bought the technology only. And they are so nice that they are delivering all the Reduser units for free. Thats right. Buying the parts. Building them and then shipping all for nothing. That’s a US$350,000 loss - all because they just want to be nice to us. Yeah right!

ACR don’t sell any other products (and maybe a handful of other units outside of Reduser orders). So how can they give away US$350,000 ? And if you were doing this as a massive marketing exercise, why would you have such a train wreck of a communications strategy that actually makes your customers hate you more than you thought was ever possible?

A golden rule in business - if the numbers don’t add up - its a lie. And that is what is going on here.

For all the bad publicity and negativity they are generating in the industry they are trying to break into - you have to wonder why they don’t just pay the refund out of from the cash in the office just to shut us up and move on with repairing their brand.

Is it really worth them dragging this on for 3 years and still have no end in sight?

My only guess is they are bankrupt and do not even have £3,000. There is no other conclusion for me. Hiding behind ‘tax office rule’ when your reputation is in the toilet anyway? I doubt the change over from BeSteady to ACR is squeaky clean. They have already moved from Uk to Poland. Taken staff with them. Then ‘given’ all the units away for ‘free’. Tell me thats not a colossal legal f%$#. Refunding one customer is hardly gong to tip them over… Hell, just take cash out of your wallet and hand it over. Forget about receipts and invoices (which never existed anyway)

A few have commented that Peter is feeling really bad, and its not his fault etc. Well, poor Peter, but it is his job. He is being paid to do it. He’s is the one who continually writes such crap to us, then disappears for weeks or months before answering our 5 pages of posts. He is BeSteady/ACR. He is all we have to communicate with, so he will get the flak when he/they keep f%*king up. If he doesn't like it, he should get someone else to talk to us. He is not an innocent bystander. He is the management of the company, not some poor receptionist who just answers the phone.

As I stated, I am thoroughly grateful for the GB people. For that exact reason. I took over a heavily used unit that was returned by a complaint filled buyer that didn't understand how to use it.

Casey - do you know what this person got as a refund when he returned it? So it seems you can return stuff to ACR…?

I know those wanting refunds want answers and money. It is my personal belief that you should instead take the gimbal to keep and use, but more on that later.

I would say try to remind yourselves that these are guys just like you or I, but they are trying to produce the most advanced gimbal on the market from nearly scratch. They aren't a faceless Fortune 500 company, or the criminal asshole persona some of you have concocted in your heads. I'd be pissed too, but try to remember these guys want you to like them and their products. Having pissed off people is the worst for a company, and they want to fix it, just like you would want to fix your name and reputation if were of ill repute.

.

Casey, I’m not sure why you think we should be forced into accepting something 3 years later than we paid for it (regardless of whether it is good or not). I have moved on. I don’t need it anymore for my business. Accepting delivery would be as much use as me accepting a delivery of 10,000 cans of beans. If you bought a Red One and they wanted to finally deliver it to you now would you accept it or ask for a refund?

And finally, just before sending this I got an email from Max Salamononwicz (very first email he has ever sent me). In it he totally says the opposite of what Peter emailed me 2 hours earlier by stating ACR cannot make any refunds until BeSteady court case in UK is resolved. So - so much for Peter and the lawyers asking the Polish Tax office. And so the shells move again. Getting faster and faster now…

Oh - and he did warn me not to ‘disclose this information’ publicly’… Why - what is the secret here? - have you told other Redusers something different and don’t want us to get together and find out how much you keep changing the story? There is no secret that BeSteady is bankrupt and ACR can’t manage to refund a handful of people…

What are you going to do Max - leave Poland and come to our world to deal with me?? I’d love for you to do that. I could save on the airfare of having to come and see you in Warsaw.

What a great group of companies these guys are!

(on a side note - how is it even f&%$cking possible that Redusers who paid in full 3 years ago are still waiting for delivery when you can buy it online from the same company and get it delivered in 10 days???)

 

[Maik Müller]

Thank you very much Greg for your efforts and the update.
Lots of food for thought, especially the the info from Max in opposite to what Peter tells us...

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

Guys, Greg, I got few words for you from Max. His account doesn't work on RU.
---
If you are following refund situation - please read it or jump to last lines of my post.
If you would like to learn more about gimbal or features, troubleshoot something, you may just loose 10 minutes while reading it.


Greg - really, you can mix reality with fantasy. I may say that you are really creative guy which definitely helps you in your work.

1. First of all, how my status update is different from Peters? You just got updated with more details, which aren't different from Peters data.
2. Delivering free units to RedUser Group Buy members. There isn't anything like that. There were certain rules and agreements that I've made to secure this project and make shipments of those gimbals.
3. Golden rule of business you've mentioned. Look above, point number 2. It is really easy to add your own story and assume that you are right. But you aren't, and you don't know facts. Even common sense would be enough to know that basic truth.
4. As you mentioned above: "For all the bad publicity and negativity they are generating in the industry they are trying to break into - you have to wonder why they don’t just pay the refund out of from the cash in the office just to shut us up and move on with repairing their brand." - Interesting point of view. Still, as I've mentioned in my email, as Peter was telling you, as we stated on RU forum - ACR cannot do that. BeSteady needs to do that. We are trying to find any option to rush it, but probably this case will be resolved when british case will be closed. I've sent you this information in last email. I didn't got any answer, just plain storytelling on RU that has got nothing to do with facts.
5. I do not know where from did you got information about amount of money. It was slightly more than 200k GBP.
6. We have shipped all units (more than 50), we still got 3 in stock waiting for redusers to resolve issues with addresses. Beside that BeSteady has got some refunds to complete.

"Is it really worth them dragging this on for 3 years and still have no end in sight?"

Yes, it is. We have delivered more than 50 gimbals which are much more sophisticated than it was initially planned. If you will check earlier posts - people are getting support, helpdesk, new firmwares, are using those in real work enviroment.

Greg. I wrote an email to you mainly because you were threatning Peter. That's something I cannot just accept and do nothing with it. As you have mentioned:

"But you seem to act like that is what your tax office will do to you. I guess you fear them more than you fear me. But trust me, you have made the wrong choice. I can do a lot worse to you than they can."

"All bets are off now. Reduser will hear all about this, plus I will be going on other forums now too to spread the message about how evil you and your company is. By the end of this year both your name and ACR’s name will be a dirty word in this industry - forever.
Not only that, as promised, I will be coming to get my cash from you personally in Warsaw. It will be a pretty fucking ugly confrontation - but I’ve warned you before, so don’t start crying when you get hurt.
Actions commence first this tomorrow..."

As I've told you in my email:

"If you would like to come to Poland and visit us: feel free to join us in our office, I will be here waiting with hot coffee and biscuits."

You got address as well. There's ACR logo on front of a building. Address of workshop and office is different than registration address. Maybe you should check this place on IG, it looks nice, and all guests are welcome...


Most important.
BeSteady still needs to do refunds to those customers that are waiting for it. There is probable scenario that it will be done in late September or October. You should definitely be in touch with Peter.

 

[Greg Garay]

Guys, Greg, I got few words for you from Max. His account doesn't work on RU.
---
If you are following refund situation - please read it or jump to last lines of my post.
If you would like to learn more about gimbal or features, troubleshoot something, you may just loose 10 minutes while reading it.


Greg - really, you can mix reality with fantasy. I may say that you are really creative guy which definitely helps you in your work.

1. First of all, how my status update is different from Peters? You just got updated with more details, which aren't different from Peters data.
   /QUOTE]
   
   Ok Peter/Max/BeSteady/ACR. Out of respect I didn’t quote any of your private emails to me directly here on Reduser (just paraphrased the intent) - but as you have just lifted entire paragraphs from my private emails to you I will let everyone know your exact quotes in return.
   
   On Wednesday 3rd Aug Peter wrote “Currently our Lawyer send request to Tax Office to allow us to make those from ACR Company - so we won't have to wait for BeSteady law suit to be finished”
   
   3 hours later Max sent me an email “ACR didn't sold anything to RedUsers. ACR is shipping units accordingly to agreement that I've organized. Currently BeSteady assets are frozen and there's no money or active account from which company could make any wire. Both directors and founders of BeSteady are going through conflict that hopefully will be finished in September or October. After that control should be established and refunds will be possible.
   ACR cannot do any refunds. There wasn't any order, proforma invoice, payment - anything that could be basis for refund. Refund will be done via BeSteady after resolving current issue. Our lawyer is and was checking alternative scenario that ACR will do refunds to fulfil BeSteady obligations. Till now we know that it isn't possible”
   
   This was based on an email 2 weeks earlier from Peter that said “I could try to explain you why I wasn't been able to communicate with you using my company e-mail but I'm afraid that you won't believe in single word from my side - so I won't even try.
   *
   But I have request. Please stop writing on open forum. Please use my personal e-mail*piotr.chmielewski@wp.pl*- I will be able to answer to all your e-mails without any problems there.”
   
   So: after Peter promising to do his best get my refund sorted in 14 days he responded with a lame ‘sent a request to tax Office but will get an answer September/ish”. And then on the same day Max says ACR cannot and will not do any refunds. You have to wait for BeSteady law suit to end and money will come from BeSteady accounts only’.
   
   If that isn’t a clear case of a company giving a customer two completely different answers I don’t know what is.
   
   They can’t even get emails in their own company to work (or are they hiding stuff internally as well?). ‘Lost’ emails seemed to plague these guys year in year out - something a ‘technology’ based company should be able to get right.
   
   

   [*]Golden rule of business you've mentioned. Look above, point number 2. It is really easy to add your own story and assume that you are right. But you aren't, and you don't know facts. Even common sense would be enough to know that basic truth.

   
   So what are the facts? We only add to our own story because for 3 years you have lied and bullshitted your way through this. Even today we still have answers abut the situation of things that you wont ever address. Common sense tells me that if you collected 70x £3,000 that is £210,000 in cash from us. How a UK company, run by Polish men, turns into a Polish company run by most of the same Polish men, that is not really closed, but cant do business - but will refund, but not now… and the same Polish men still keep telling us what the old company is doing - but its not really them…yeah - common sense is all you need to figure that one out…
   
   

   [*]As you mentioned above: "For all the bad publicity and negativity they are generating in the industry they are trying to break into - you have to wonder why they don’t just pay the refund out of from the cash in the office just to shut us up and move on with repairing their brand." - Interesting point of view. Still, as I've mentioned in my email, as Peter was telling you, as we stated on RU forum - ACR cannot do that. BeSteady needs to do that. We are trying to find any option to rush it

   
   What are these ’any options” you are trying. I suggested two to you 2 weeks ago and you said ‘oh, thats interesting, haven't thought about that… let me look into it’. You are not rushing into anything. You guys cant even rush in to answer Reduser posts! Seriously - after asking for a refund from you over 18 months ago - and it is only this week that you bother to get your lawyer to make enquires about refund with Tax office? And only because I suggested the idea. You don’t even have an answer to: ‘if i take delivery and then want to return it because I’m not happy with the product, will I get a refund” . Really - you don’t know? You haven't figured it out? It never, in 3 years ,occurred to you? Really?
   
   And why don’t you give us the facts of how many Redusers want a refund. Would be interesting to see the statics .
   
   

   We have delivered more than 50 gimbals which are much more sophisticated than it was initially planned. If you will check earlier posts - people are getting support, helpdesk, new firmwares, are using those in real work enviroment.

   
   Im not sure that announcing you shipped 50 units 3 years late is something to really boast about. It doesn't bode well for the future. Thats an average of 17 per year. And its not like you ramped up and solved the issues - as of a month ago you were still trying to get the last batch done! Back at the end of 2105 you publicly promised us all units would be shipped by Jan 2016. How can you still, with a supposedly new company, be struggling so much? And you can’t use ‘technology’ as an excuse anymore. If you deliver it in 2020 of course it will be better technology. But then we would have paid you in 2020 not 2013.
   
   

   Greg. I wrote an email to you mainly because you were threatning Peter. That's something I cannot just accept and do nothing with it.

   
   It is not a threat, it is a promise to come to your office and deal with the situation face to face. I hardly see it as a ‘threat’ to come and retrieve my cash - you know, the £3,000 cash I gave you… I’ve said publicly already it wont be a pretty event. (perhaps you didn’t bother to read the posts here about your company). And this is based on your 3 years of you lying to us. I don’t expect you will be warm and fuzzy with me and tell me some honest truths. You haven't been that way with any of us so far here in this forum. You have never offered to come and meet us anywhere. Never sent an open letter to all all of us needing a refund. Never sent out a list of what is shipped and who is waiting for what. Its all just cloak and dagger, bits of news here and there, ‘have a good weekend’ crap. You’ve got a CEO (Justyna Wodzynska) that has never even said a word to anyone - ever! What does she do?
   
   Why do you find it so damn hard to treat your customers with openness and honesty? Go back and look at the last 3 years of posts from your customers and look at your answers to them. And then you still expect us to treat you as if you are a normal, trustworthy company?
   
   I’ve been speaking to plenty of people in the industry lately asking them about your product. Uniformly, everyone says ‘ their product looks like it might be OK but I’ll wait until I see what happens with the company” . So basically - no one trust you or thinks you’ll survive.
   
   You can kid yourself and think its just me causing trouble - but the reality is your company name is rubbish and you do nothing to restore it (and letting your product speak for itself is not going to help you).
   
   Yes, this thread is long an boring. I get tired of talking about this - because none of it sinks in with you. You act like you have no baggage from the last 3 years of complete f%$k up. Yes, this might have wasted ’10 minutes’ of readers time - but its the only way to get you to be honest - then this is what I will continue to do until I get a fair resolution. And hopefully it informs others of what you are doing and the way you treat customers.

 

[Ash Worth]

Trump Gimbals

 

[Greg Garay]

Trump Gimbals

Yes... I've been resisting comparing them to him - but it does seem to be appropriate in this case.

 

[David E. Rogers]

Got a 6 day old one in the case, if somebody is interested.

 

[steve green]

The amount of angst which has gone into all the writing here, on your part, Greg, IMO is not worth the money which you laid out three years ago. I'm certainly not defending the BS of what has transpired, there's really no excuse for it. I understand the "principle" of asking for and receiving the refund you deserve, but, after all this time it's become clear that's not going to happen, at least not in a timely manner.

Speaking from experience the "Beast" does in fact work, and works well. People are using it on shoots everyday. There is a market for it. If I may offer what I would do if I were in your position: take delivery, advertise the hell out of it, sell the unit for what I could get, and chalk up the difference to a bad experience and move on. I'm sure I'd be able to find better, more rewarding ways to spend my time. Life's to short.....My two cents.......

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

I think it's going to happen. They work hard on getting the brand back on track. Why would they not refund you.

Besteady ACR said many many times during the groupbuy, refunds will come after the delivery of all units.
Which should come to an end really soon, if not already.
Peter said they where dealing it September, so I guess it should be December. I trust they refunds the ones who want it.

 

[Ned Wilson]

I watch this thread because I'm in the market for a new gimbal.

I don't know how many people have asked for refunds and what it amounts to. But is it worth what I see as a PR fiasco to delay them any longer? Is the amount of future business lost to a bad rep worth withholding refunds? I work with numerous cameramen in NYC, many who are Ronin / Movi owners. None of us even consider ACR because of the grievances on Reduser. Which is a shame as it seem a good product. But with expensive electronic items, customer service is king.

 

[Maik Müller]

I watch this thread because I'm in the market for a new gimbal.

I don't know how many people have asked for refunds and what it amounts to. But is it worth what I see as a PR fiasco to delay them any longer? Is the amount of future business lost to a bad rep worth withholding refunds? I work with numerous cameramen in NYC, many who are Ronin / Movi owners. None of us even consider ACR because of the grievances on Reduser. Which is a shame as it seem a good product. But with expensive electronic items, customer service is king.

It's a two-sided sword.

On one side there is a great gimbal. It has received a lot of improvements over time and the reports from those who have access to the newest version are indeed very positive now. Also there have been numerous mentions of a helpful support, even via Skype-sessions (you don't get that everywhere). You have to give them that.

On the other hand there is this whole mess of a failed group-buy, which did indeed cost reputation. Is it fair? Maybe, to a degree at least. It's understandable that people get angry after 3 years, promises, delays, lack of communication. We had it all. And we can only imagine what happened behind the curtains (and as soon as people start to imagine such things they're often exaggerating).

It's a situation that should be fixed asap for sure. Satisfy every member of the group-buy, refund or unit, whatever. It must be the highest priority, for us, for them.

Should that be of concern of new customers, should that hold them back from buying a gimbal?If that's the case then that would be the end of ACR. And no matter how my feelings about the failed group-buy are, i don't think they deserve this. I don't know what i would do if i were in that situation, but visiting a distributor for a demo should be in. Hey Distributors still have that gimbal in stock, they didn't jump.

And whatever the current state of refunds is (or delivery of units in this group-buy), the guys are still here, they could have run a long time ago.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

And whatever the current state of refunds is (or delivery of units in this group-buy), the guys are still here, they could have run a long time ago.

I'll add that so far every emails I've sent since the delivery had an answer in less than 48h. It was for accessories not troubleshooting or administration though, as the gimbal is working perfectly.

I think some Group Buyers have received answers many many times, answers which they didn't like, but kept asking in hope of a change that didn't arrive.
This is the situation where you stop answering mails as it became pointless to loose time. And I bet this is what happened here.

To be honest, I don't care for the ones asking refunds without even testing the gimbal, because it's a fine piece of gear with real customer services for the actual "owners who received it".
Some just want refunds because they fear not to resell the gimbal on delivery. And because of you guys, even though the gimbal is top notch and ACR tries to step up their game, you guys are lowering the value of our own gear by these kind of procedural, angry and man can't you just read ACR posts about refunds?
And this is really upsetting. A lot.

When I think about it, if I hadn't other other things to buy, I would get your unit, Greg, so you'd be both out of here and happy.

As Steve said :

If I may offer what I would do if I were in your position: take delivery, advertise the hell out of it, sell the unit for what I could get, and chalk up the difference to a bad experience and move on. I'm sure I'd be able to find better, more rewarding ways to spend my time

I care more about the firsts in line who received faulty units than louder people who didn't even tried the damn thing.
I just hope faulty units were replaced. Men like Carey, who got a non working unit even though he ran the GB is unacceptable.

And this should be the concern of ACR, refunds are just administration and administration takes time especially when it's about money in foreign countries...

 

[Andy White]

It's been an interesting ride

I, for one, have always had easy/fair/straight dealings with Peter and ACR. As with Bérenger, mails have always answered (normally way less than 48 hours - more like 12-24) so no complaints there. My unit was delivered and then went back for the V2 upgrade.

I've not had a chance to do much testing as I've been embroiled in some studio based CGI work (for far too long), but I don't expect any issues... and, importantly, if there are problems, my personal dealings with Peter and ACR mean I'm sure resolutions will be easily found (if required).

Just speaking for myself here

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

Guys,

There is a lot everyone can say about this group buy, how it was handled, what were mistakes and errors and so on. But please focus on more positive things at this moment.

We are doing all we can to finish delivery of units - and only 2 of these are still in our hands waiting to be delivered as I can't reach to people that they should go to. Xavier Delpech and Mohammed Almedfa, please contact me to confirm delivery addresses.

Matter of refunds is being handled and it is our priority to deal with it. But it takes extra time I'm afraid as the situation is complicated - I have been explaining it few times already but let me clear some of Greg statements.

Yes, we are waiting for decision of Polish Tax Office about possibility to make refunds from ACR company.

Yes, I have informed Greg that we wont risk going against PTO as it is very "unhealthy" to do so - and as example I have send him link to article that was describing huge company that is almost destroyed by some decision that has been made by PTO clerks. Additionally I have mentioned that it is capital offence in Poland to go against PTO and you can be sentenced for up to 25 years in prison for those so nobody will risk doing something rash and without their approval. And PTO isn't known from being fastest working government office in Poland to put it lightly.

There were 3 directors in BeSteady and only one of those guys is in ACR now - it's Max. I hope it will help to close any speculations about that matter.

I fully understand Greg`s anger and frustration over matter of refunds. I really do. But I don't like to bee insulted and threatened - I won't be quoting all of his communication to me, but it wasn't appropriate - let say it delicately.

So to close that matter - please let us do our job and close that group deal. We are doing all we can to finally finish it and move on. You can believe me in that.


Best
Peter

 

[Greg Garay]

Guys,

There is a lot everyone can say about this group buy, how it was handled, what were mistakes and errors and so on. But please focus on more positive things at this moment.

Why should we focus on the positive? So you can ignore the elephant in the room that is refunds? I don’t think so. The mistakes are all on your side - yet you make it sound like we all screwed up together. Take some responsibility. It is your problem. You need to own and fix it. ACR is legally ⅓ BeSteady - and staff wise, 75% BeSteady.

Yet again you answer us without addressing almost all of my questions. But just enough to say ‘lets all hug and move on’.

Yes Peter - you will go to jail for 25 years if you give me a refund of my money. And at the same time I will go to jail here the UK for not paying my parking fines. I can send you a link of a newspaper article to prove it has happened to others and yes, it is the law here in UK. Crazy stuff huh!

And in case you didn’t read all the posts here (from about a week ago), I did tell everyone about your Polish Tax office/jail story - so no need to repeat it here again. You could spend your time answering our questions instead.

Miraculously, Peter, you only got in touch with the tax Office after I told you to do so about a month ago. Up until then, it had never occurred to you to try it yourself in the last 18 months. So - no - you are not doing everything you can to solve this problem. Its only from my bashing away on the keyboard that makes yuo respond at all.

And still waiting on an answer for refunds on goods delivered but customer not satisfied… (I’ve asked this 5 times now publicly and privately).

I
To be honest, I don't care for the ones asking refunds without even testing the gimbal, because it's a fine piece of gear with real customer services for the actual "owners who received it".
Some just want refunds because they fear not to resell the gimbal on delivery…

Berenger, I’m happy that after 3 years from the order(and payment) date, your business still has a use for the product when it finally arrives. Mine does not. Nothing to do with resell value (though you should never buy something based on what you hope the resale value might be). I think 3 years is a fair enough time for a customer to wait and then say ‘just give me my money back”.
If Amazon delivered you a Plasma TV you ordered online in 2013 would you still accept delivery in June 2016 - regardless if they updated the model specs a bit?

And even if I did still want it,( judging from the super secret list that they never updated or talked about, I was about number 55) I only would have received it in the last month or so anyway.

I think it's going to happen. They work hard on getting the brand back on track. Why would they not refund you.

Besteady ACR said many many times during the groupbuy, refunds will come after the delivery of all units.
Which should come to an end really soon, if not already.
Peter said they where dealing it September, so I guess it should be December. I trust they refunds the ones who want it.

We should be clear here. Peter/Max/BeSteady/ACR have said many cryptic things about refunds
“Refunds will be done after all units delivered.” Why?? This has never been explained and makes no sense to me - especially if they are giving the units out as ‘gifts’ according to their secret BeSteady-ACR deal. I’ve asked them a thousand times about this but no answer. What difference can it possibly make unless a. they are bankrupt or b. it was some weird legal deal. If it is A then they sure as hell wont be in profit for a long time after ‘gifting’ all the original units and then having to make new ones and find new customers. Maybe Sept 2020…
“Refunds will be completed in September 2015” They wrote that back in August 2015.
“Refunds will completed in September” They wrote that this month.
“Refunds cannot come from ACR. They must come from BeSteady but they are in long running legal dispute and all accounts frozen. We do not know when this legal dispute will be resolved”. Max wrote this to me this last week.
“Lawyer has sent question to Polish Tax Office to see if refunds from ACR are possible. Expect an answer maybe early September.” Peter wrote this to me last week (after I suggested the idea to him). So they expect an ‘answer’ from Polish Tax office. But they have no idea what the answer will be (and it seems likely to be ‘No’).

So all this promise of ‘they’ll refund you the money, don’t worry’ rests upon on one major element - that the Bankrupt/Asset frozen owners of BeSteady ending their legal fight and then actually wanting to pay their creditors (or having money left to pay their creditors). How many creditors of a failed company get their money back?? I think it is safe to say if we are relying on the owners of BeSteady to come out of a failed company and say,’oh yes, we should give those few customers their money back’ is laughable at best. And Peter/Max know this is the case. They just wont say it to us. They would rather we ‘focus on the positive’ so their company can go on and try and get new customers. Leave us with nothing. And don’t forget - Max was one of those BeSteady company owners!

If I am barking up the wrong tree Max/Peter - then please speak up and tell us what the other story is. I keep asking for facts - but they never come.

And this is where I want to propose a different tack:

So far no one from BeSteady/ACR has ever called me. They have never offered to Skype. They have never sent a group letter to apologise and set the record straight with all of their Reduser customers (their only customers). All their communications have been via bullshit Reduser posts that go round in circles and half answer 10% of our questions. So - a new tack. I propose a Skype call between myself, and Peter/Max/BeSteady/ACR (plus their lawyers and Polish Tax office if its helpful) and all other Redusers that are waiting on a refund or were part of the group buy. An open, discussion where everyone can ask questions and expect full answers. I’m shocked they have never offered this themselves - but I’ll be up front and ask for it on everyone’s behalf anyway. And if it is just me and them on Skype that is OK too - and I will report their answers here for all to read. Cant be more open and honest than that.

I’ll give few days before suggesting a time that suits most of us.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

Except this was not a regular groupbuy, it was a kickstarter groupbuy from the start. Btw, if I had orderer 3 years ago a 4k monitor to have it delivered now with improvments, yes I would have taken it of course.
But I bought a Red One back in the day too.

Also you are comparing a small niche european company to Amazon. Are you seeing a bit of a problem here ?
ACR had no legal obligation to deliver us "free samples", yet they did. They have no legal obligation to refund anyone. They have a moral obligation yes, and considering most of us have their units, I think ACR is run by pretty moral guys.
They manage to get an arrangement for units, they will find something for the money back.

And if they are not, why don't you sell the gimbal before it's delivered ? Find a buyer, you better get one in Europe, and have it delivered there. At the group buy price, even now, it's a bargain.

I think they didn't call you because of the way you talk. You sound rude on a forum, I just can't imagine what you sound like on a phone.

 

[Roy Rossovich]

We'll never thought this day would come but it did! My ACR unit has landed and it looks pretty swell. Look forward to booting it up. Good work guys and gals over at ACR for coming through with these!

 

[vincent kardasik]

We'll never thought this day would come but it did! My ACR unit has landed and it looks pretty swell. Look forward to booting it up. Good work guys and gals over at ACR for coming through with these!

Enjoy Roy!

One thing I regret about the Beast is that we're spending more time complaining about the after effect of the GB and the ACR team attitude but no one is really sharing any set-up, tweak or tip about their unit.
The BeSteady forum seems pretty dead or weak when it comes to the Beast...
Should we re-orient this thread more on this or create a new one?
It's always good to share that kind of knowledge I think...

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

One thing I regret about the Beast is that we're spending more time complaining about the after effect of the GB and the ACR team attitude but no one is really sharing any set-up, tweak or tip about their unit.
The BeSteady forum seems pretty dead or weak when it comes to the Beast...
Should we re-orient this thread more on this or create a new one?
It's always good to share that kind of knowledge I think...

I would vote for an entirely new thread.
Extract the pearls of wisdom in this thread and copy to the new.

With a "timing" condition: only after final conclusion of the "Group Buy" (all delivered or otherwise resolved).
Could be added motivation to clean up details...
It is so close - and I would not want to see the new thread polluted with any spill-over.

That would mark an appropriate time to close this thread and let it RIP.