BeSteady FOUR Thread

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Hi All,

I was wondering if someone here can advise me on attaching a Beast to a drone. I see ACR sells a quick release system: the Lock'n'load V2 upgrade kit (http://shop.acr-sys.com/product-eng-58-LocknLoad-V2-simple-upgrade-kit.html). Before I buy it, I thought I'd check if anyone here has tested it. Looking at the pictures, the thumbscrew locking mechanism makes me a bit nervous. Is it secure? Does the thumbscrew lock in some way to prevent it working loose due to vibration?

Any other suggestions/images would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Rob

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

Hello Rob,


Lance Knowles is flying with The Beast under drone using that quick release system.
https://www.instagram.com/insta_kappytan/

Picture of his drone flying:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BGmkYQ1kCeu/?taken-by=acrsys

If you like you can speak with him directly about it.


Best
Peter

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Thanks Peter, I've ordered it.

 

[Greg Garay]

A Refunds Update for you all:

Peter replied to my email/s (the 30+ which he ignored for 3 months) regarding refunds.

As expected, he lied and conned his way around the issue. I gave him 7 days to respond completely to my final request for a refund. He has not responded - so I’ll vent this in public now.

Peter the con man has spent the last 3 years as both BeSteady and ACR leader bullshitting his way around all our questions and requests. I have followed this thread, and the other closed and deleted threads for over 3 years (not something I would normally bother with - but when £3,000 of my cash is tied up in it - I pay attention). It is the one tab in my browser that never goes away!

Others have duked it out with Peter. From the original group buy leader, courageous Carey Lee Coffey, to many others. If you read through all the thousands of posts, you will see a common response from Peter: avoid answering, change topics, make promises, silence, rinse and repeat. Eventually each of you has given up after months or years of trying to get a straight answer from Peter.

So now it seems like it is my turn to take up the challenge…

Like most con men and serial liars do, Peter asked me in his most recent email (I only have 7 from him in 3 years vs my 48 sent to him) to “keep this information confidential”. Now that statement is a sure fire sign you are dealing with a conman - who is trying to play off other parties against each other and keep everyone guessing. But with the 60+ Redusers who bankrolled this experiment, I believe each of us should know the words that come out of his mouth.

Peter said that the two previous owners of the Beast (BeSteady) are in court fighting it our over god knows what (money? copyright?). And because of this it is unlikely any refunds will be given. He then went on to say ‘Polish tax law prohibits him form making any refunds via ACR (oh, poor them - they can’t give us our money back because the ‘law’ wont let them…).

This is despite Peter saying on Reduser that refunds will be given. He also said that somehow ACR bought the technology and the Beasts - but not the risk of having to refund any money. Again - how does that work? You buy the technology and the actual parts (or even assembled units) that you have a legal obligation to deliver to Redusers (who paid BeSteady) - but you have no obligation to give money back and keep the units which you can sell (for a higher price) to new customers?!

So here is my question: We (I) paid £3,000 up front for the Beast. It is for sale online and through ‘dealers’ for approx £5,400. So why would they not give a cash refund to me - when they could then take that Beast and resell it for almost double the price? Even with markups they would have to be coming out ahead. I have asked Peter this questions numerous times but he has never even hinted at an answer.
My answer would be that they must be in such dire straits and close to bankruptcy if they cant take up such a deal. The must know they cant find any new buyers. Which leads me to ask the next question - why do any of us here want to take delivery and support a company that is clearly on the edge of failure and will never be able to support your product in the near or long term future?

I’m not sure how many of us are even asking for a refund. My guess is that out of 60+Redusers, less than 6 have asked for refunds. So thats £18,000 or less that ACR can’t even manage from their accounts. Its only 6 new customers to sell to. Do they really not think they will have 6 new customers in 2016/2107?

In one email from Peter he suggested I take delivery (but never said when that would be - I think i’m number 55 - but no one really knows because they never tell us such basic information) and then sell it myself on the market. How dodgy is that? We cant find customers - but take delivery of yours and see if you can find a buyer!!

That is like Mercedes saying, we cant refund the cash you paid for your new car, but take delivery and then see if you can find a buyer online… How much faith in Mercedes would you have after that answer?

If they had ever been open with responses (or even bother to respond) I could give them the benefit of the doubt. We could have honest discussions about the process and timelines. But when you get three years of continual lies and silence from them you don’t have to be a fortune teller to see how this company is going to end.

I know some of you have resorted to “I paid cash, I just wanted to get something in my hands at the end of that deal”. But my thinking on that is you now have a piece of equipment that you will have to reply on for professional jobs, knowing you will have little to zero backup when you really need it - and a product with limited life. And with their reputation - it will be pretty difficult to sell on the used market.

3 years ago they were the only alternative to the expensive Freefly system. Now they have plenty of valid competition on price and quality with DJI and others. DJI may have support response issues, but at least you know it is a proper company, will be around longer than the next 6 months and has more than 3 employees (although Peter does try and convince us they they have a ‘legal department, an accounting department and even a ‘administrator’ when all those dozens of emails seem to go missing every month.

So I have only one solution left for myself. I am flying to their office in Warsaw and will get a cash refund before I leave their office. There is no other way around this.

It has been beneficial for them to based in Poland all this time - well out of reach of all of the Reduser customers. And no doubt they have relied on that fact. Out of reach, of our lawyers reach, out of reach of US customers who don’t fancy spending a few $1000’s to fly there. But this month I am nearby and so I will be able to do what no one else has been able to do: confront Peter, toe to toe and get a proper solution. On the spot, with nowhere to hide - the way Aussies like to do business

I’ll keep you updated on the ‘meeting’ with them (I say “meeting” because I have no doubt that he will not actually be inviting me to meet them - but I will be there regardless…). And no doubt there will be a few ‘Peter’s not in the office today”, “Peter’s in a meeting at the moment..”, But that is all part of the game, right…

Until then, I’d like to hear any of your thoughts or experiences with dealing with them.

 

[Ash Worth]

Good for you for calling out this bullshit, I expect nothing less from an Australian... but you know he won't be there and you may end up in jail Perhaps take solace that karma will eventually catch up with him and if not karma then the market.

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

A Refunds Update for you all:

Peter replied to my email/s (the 30+ which he ignored for 3 months) regarding refunds.

As expected, he lied and conned his way around the issue. I gave him 7 days to respond completely to my final request for a refund. He has not responded - so I’ll vent this in public now.

Peter the con man has spent the last 3 years as both BeSteady and ACR leader bullshitting his way around all our questions and requests. I have followed this thread, and the other closed and deleted threads for over 3 years (not something I would normally bother with - but when £3,000 of my cash is tied up in it - I pay attention). It is the one tab in my browser that never goes away!

Others have duked it out with Peter. From the original group buy leader, courageous Carey Lee Coffey, to many others. If you read through all the thousands of posts, you will see a common response from Peter: avoid answering, change topics, make promises, silence, rinse and repeat. Eventually each of you has given up after months or years of trying to get a straight answer from Peter.

So now it seems like it is my turn to take up the challenge…

Like most con men and serial liars do, Peter asked me in his most recent email (I only have 7 from him in 3 years vs my 48 sent to him) to “keep this information confidential”. Now that statement is a sure fire sign you are dealing with a conman - who is trying to play off other parties against each other and keep everyone guessing. But with the 60+ Redusers who bankrolled this experiment, I believe each of us should know the words that come out of his mouth.

Peter said that the two previous owners of the Beast (BeSteady) are in court fighting it our over god knows what (money? copyright?). And because of this it is unlikely any refunds will be given. He then went on to say ‘Polish tax law prohibits him form making any refunds via ACR (oh, poor them - they can’t give us our money back because the ‘law’ wont let them…).

This is despite Peter saying on Reduser that refunds will be given. He also said that somehow ACR bought the technology and the Beasts - but not the risk of having to refund any money. Again - how does that work? You buy the technology and the actual parts (or even assembled units) that you have a legal obligation to deliver to Redusers (who paid BeSteady) - but you have no obligation to give money back and keep the units which you can sell (for a higher price) to new customers?!

So here is my question: We (I) paid £3,000 up front for the Beast. It is for sale online and through ‘dealers’ for approx £5,400. So why would they not give a cash refund to me - when they could then take that Beast and resell it for almost double the price? Even with markups they would have to be coming out ahead. I have asked Peter this questions numerous times but he has never even hinted at an answer.
My answer would be that they must be in such dire straits and close to bankruptcy if they cant take up such a deal. The must know they cant find any new buyers. Which leads me to ask the next question - why do any of us here want to take delivery and support a company that is clearly on the edge of failure and will never be able to support your product in the near or long term future?

I’m not sure how many of us are even asking for a refund. My guess is that out of 60+Redusers, less than 6 have asked for refunds. So thats £18,000 or less that ACR can’t even manage from their accounts. Its only 6 new customers to sell to. Do they really not think they will have 6 new customers in 2016/2107?

In one email from Peter he suggested I take delivery (but never said when that would be - I think i’m number 55 - but no one really knows because they never tell us such basic information) and then sell it myself on the market. How dodgy is that? We cant find customers - but take delivery of yours and see if you can find a buyer!!

That is like Mercedes saying, we cant refund the cash you paid for your new car, but take delivery and then see if you can find a buyer online… How much faith in Mercedes would you have after that answer?

If they had ever been open with responses (or even bother to respond) I could give them the benefit of the doubt. We could have honest discussions about the process and timelines. But when you get three years of continual lies and silence from them you don’t have to be a fortune teller to see how this company is going to end.

I know some of you have resorted to “I paid cash, I just wanted to get something in my hands at the end of that deal”. But my thinking on that is you now have a piece of equipment that you will have to reply on for professional jobs, knowing you will have little to zero backup when you really need it - and a product with limited life. And with their reputation - it will be pretty difficult to sell on the used market.

3 years ago they were the only alternative to the expensive Freefly system. Now they have plenty of valid competition on price and quality with DJI and others. DJI may have support response issues, but at least you know it is a proper company, will be around longer than the next 6 months and has more than 3 employees (although Peter does try and convince us they they have a ‘legal department, an accounting department and even a ‘administrator’ when all those dozens of emails seem to go missing every month.

So I have only one solution left for myself. I am flying to their office in Warsaw and will get a cash refund before I leave their office. There is no other way around this.

It has been beneficial for them to based in Poland all this time - well out of reach of all of the Reduser customers. And no doubt they have relied on that fact. Out of reach, of our lawyers reach, out of reach of US customers who don’t fancy spending a few $1000’s to fly there. But this month I am nearby and so I will be able to do what no one else has been able to do: confront Peter, toe to toe and get a proper solution. On the spot, with nowhere to hide - the way Aussies like to do business

I’ll keep you updated on the ‘meeting’ with them (I say “meeting” because I have no doubt that he will not actually be inviting me to meet them - but I will be there regardless…). And no doubt there will be a few ‘Peter’s not in the office today”, “Peter’s in a meeting at the moment..”, But that is all part of the game, right…

Until then, I’d like to hear any of your thoughts or experiences with dealing with them.

Please have a cameraman with you to film this expose'.

 

[Maik Müller]

I'm not with all that anger and wouldn't agree with every single assumption/interpretation/accusation... but you brought up valid questions and described a situation that has become intolerable.

We can't get a refund for legal reasons, but a unit could be shipped to us, sooner or later. Even with goodwill (of which all here have showed more than enough) this leaves a lot of questions open and to be honest, i'm not really interested in getting questions answered, i just want the money back and out of this nightmare now. BTW, wasn't there a money-back warranty promised? How would that work?

Whatever, i wish you luck and success for your mission, and somehow hope you'll be proven wrong about some of your thoughts.

 

[Greg Garay]

BTW, wasn't there a money-back warranty promised? How would that work?

Malik - this is exactly the problem. They have made dozens of promises (and failed to deliver on any of them) - but no one knows what any of them mean. And what do you do when they don't mean anything?!

Please have a cameraman with you to film this expose'.

Nice idea!

Good for you for calling out this bullshit, I expect nothing less from an Australian... but you know he won't be there and you may end up in jail Perhaps take solace that karma will eventually catch up with him and if not karma then the market.

I have a friend in Poland checking out the situation before I arrive...

As you can see form the last 10 days of silence from Peter and ACR - they are going to hide from this issue forever. I've not got an email response either. I know I shouldn't be, but I can't help but be astonished that a company would act like this wth their core user group - and so consistently. Its not like they can move on to selling to another market of users - like, say a dodgy plumber in a big city could.

Some further investigation on their 'office' in Poland reveals ACR is registered at an address that is nothing more than a run down residential building on a dirt road. Spacerowa 10 05-410 Jozefow (Poland)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sp...99!4d21.230458

While there shipping and delivery address is: Marie Sklodowska Currie 3A, 05-420 Jozefow

Not to shit on small businesses that work out of cheap offices. Didn't Apple start in a garage? But with BeSteady/ACR's track record of the last 3 years - its not looking positive for them anyway you look at it.

Next step is a flight to Warsaw to meet Peter and his 'team'. I'm sure he is now packing his bags for an unexpected, early start to the European August summer break - but my local contact is keeping an eye on things so I arrive at the most productive time.

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

Hello Guys,


those information that Greg posted here are correct - I'm referring to the refund situation.


BeSteady is company that your initial order went through, it was later bought by another company and finally it ended in hands of ACR - and that company agreed to honour deal with members of group buy and deliver units to them. So sending units to you is part of marketing and promotion for that company and part of deal that has been made.


I can't discuss that matter in details because I'm not a lawyer to begin with and I don't have full knowledge about current legal situation.


But like I have informed all persons requesting refunds - we are doing all we can to see that process through and those will be made as fast as it will be legally possible.


I'm very sorry for that situation.



Best
Peter

 

[Greg Garay]

Peter, Nice for you to finally reply. What is your excuse for taking 2 weeks to answer? And when will you reply to my emails from 1 month ago, 2 weeks ago and 2 days ago?

Which part of the information I posted is incorrect?

You don't have to be a lawyer to explain to your customers what is really going on. If you don't understand it - then get your lawyer to explain it to you. You are not an innocent bystander in this. You can't brush it off as 'its a legal matter'. It sure as hell is a legal matter - and we want to know the details of it because it is our money that everyone is getting all 'legal' over.

If units are being sent to us as a 'marketing and promotion' what does mean? You are doing it for free? What happens if we are unsatisfied with the unit - can it be returned for a full refund?

You have a long way to go in understanding the concept of 'marketing and promotion' if you think the way you deal with your core customers is doing your business any good. Maybe its a language thing for you - maybe you just don't give a shit.

I know you love avoiding direct answers and shifting focus to something else but we need direct answers to direct questions so please answer these for all of us:

1. What is the actual wording of the 'deal' with the company (which you do not name) that agreed to send the units to redusers? Does it say they will not refund money, only send units?

2. What is the name of the company that took over from BeSteady - before ACR (and what are their contact details)?

3. How many redusers are still waiting for their units?

4. What date will all units be delivered to redusers customers?

5. How many redusers have received everything they ordered and paid for (units, cable, batteries- the full kit)?

6. Are you (ACR) responsible for refunds from original reduser buyers? If yes - then when will this be completed (specify what month, in what year). If not you, then who should we be contacting for refunds? You say ACR agreed to deliver units - did they specifically (in writing) not agree to refund money?

7. What days will you be in your office so I can meet with you? (and what is your actual office address?)

8. Why will you not refund my cash when you can then sell that exact same unit to a new buyer for double the money you will refund me?

9. if I take delivery of a unit and it does not work in the first 14 days will you honour the EU Policy for refunds on faulty/not as described goods?

10. What is the contact details of your lawyer?

Please do not take weeks or months to reply to this request. You should be able to answer each question today.

 

[Matt Fleming]

Peter, Nice for you to finally reply. What is your excuse for taking 2 weeks to answer? And when will you reply to my emails from 1 month ago, 2 weeks ago and 2 days ago?

Which part of the information I posted is incorrect?

You don't have to be a lawyer to explain to your customers what is really going on. If you don't understand it - then get your lawyer to explain it to you. You are not an innocent bystander in this. You can't brush it off as 'its a legal matter'. It sure as hell is a legal matter - and we want to know the details of it because it is our money that everyone is getting all 'legal' over.

If units are being sent to us as a 'marketing and promotion' what does mean? You are doing it for free? What happens if we are unsatisfied with the unit - can it be returned for a full refund?

You have a long way to go in understanding the concept of 'marketing and promotion' if you think the way you deal with your core customers is doing your business any good. Maybe its a language thing for you - maybe you just don't give a shit.

I know you love avoiding direct answers and shifting focus to something else but we need direct answers to direct questions so please answer these for all of us:

1. What is the actual wording of the 'deal' with the company (which you do not name) that agreed to send the units to redusers? Does it say they will not refund money, only send units?

2. What is the name of the company that took over from BeSteady - before ACR (and what are their contact details)?

3. How many redusers are still waiting for their units?

4. What date will all units be delivered to redusers customers?

5. How many redusers have received everything they ordered and paid for (units, cable, batteries- the full kit)?

6. Are you (ACR) responsible for refunds from original reduser buyers? If yes - then when will this be completed (specify what month, in what year). If not you, then who should we be contacting for refunds? You say ACR agreed to deliver units - did they specifically (in writing) not agree to refund money?

7. What days will you be in your office so I can meet with you? (and what is your actual office address?)

8. Why will you not refund my cash when you can then sell that exact same unit to a new buyer for double the money you will refund me?

9. if I take delivery of a unit and it does not work in the first 14 days will you honour the EU Policy for refunds on faulty/not as described goods?

10. What is the contact details of your lawyer?

Please do not take weeks or months to reply to this request. You should be able to answer each question today.

I can feel the legs that support group buys here on RU trembling. Would hate to see them go away. Also want to see justice for all in this debacle of a "group buy" (AKA: failed kickstarter). Greg, maybe try hounding them on other forums where they are hoping to fish for new customers? They might be more responsive there. Best of luck...

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

I can feel the legs that support group buys here on RU trembling. Would hate to see them go away. Also want to see justice for all in this debacle of a "group buy" (AKA: failed kickstarter). Greg, maybe try hounding them on other forums where they are hoping to fish for new customers? They might be more responsive there. Best of luck...

I have tried to avoid saying this, and I hate to be negative, but I have to tell it like it is.

This is a text-book Ponzi Scheme.

Most Ponzi Scheme's don't start as Ponzi Scheme's, they start out as legitimate businesses with good intentions.

But as things go south for the company, they have two choices: 1. They can file for bankruptcy and try to make their initial investors whole. OR 2. The can keep bringing on new money to keep the business afloat. When you take on new money in order to attempt to pacify your previous investors, that's a Ponzi Scheme.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what BeSteady/ACR has done here, is not just reprehensible, inept, and just plain wrong on so many levels, but it's also a crime.

 

[Ash Worth]

They should at the very least ship remaining units asap. There's no excuse for this.

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

1. What is the actual wording of the 'deal' with the company (which you do not name) that agreed to send the units to redusers? Does it say they will not refund money, only send units?
Ad 1) It is made as part of payment for purchase of rights and technology. It's Polish taxes system and law that prohibits us from making refunds from ACR - from polish tax office point of view giving money in that way is breaking the law. Giving products as free samples on the other hand is not. Don't ask me why - Polish tax system isn't best in the world.

3. How many redusers are still waiting for their units?
4. What date will all units be delivered to redusers customers?
5. How many redusers have received everything they ordered and paid for (units, cable, batteries- the full kit)?
Ad 3&4&5) There are 8 units for us to send - and it will be done in this month. There were 70thy active members of group buy.

6. Are you (ACR) responsible for refunds from original reduser buyers? If yes - then when will this be completed (specify what month, in what year). If not you, then who should we be contacting for refunds? You say ACR agreed to deliver units - did they specifically (in writing) not agree to refund money?
Ad6) Like I'm trying to explain - ACR can't be part of refunds. Those needs to be done by BeSteady and at this moment there is ongoing lawsuit between owners of BeSteady. And again - ACR can't refund money - it would be breaking Polish tax law to do so. At this point all I can say now is that I'm waiting for that lawsuit to be closed as it's impossible to do anything in terms of refunds before that.

7. What days will you be in your office so I can meet with you? (and what is your actual office address?)
Ad7) I'm working from Monday till Friday in business hours. But please arrange a meting first as I'm not always in the office.

8. Why will you not refund my cash when you can then sell that exact same unit to a new buyer for double the money you will refund me?
Ad8) Polish tax law.

9. if I take delivery of a unit and it does not work in the first 14 days will you honour the EU Policy for refunds on faulty/not as described goods?
Ad9) It's very interesting question - we haven't got such case. I believe I need to speak with our company lawyer about such case and how we could handle such situation.

10. What is the contact details of your lawyer?
http://gmplaw.pl/gmp/

Greg Garay, I strongly suggest for you to speak with your Polish friend and arrange meting between him and me before you will decide to go to Poland.


Best
Peter

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

They're playing the shell game.

BeSteady became ACR to avoid their responsibility to the very people who gave them life in the first place: us Redusers.

ACR is just BeSteady by another name, just a way for them to hide from the people who gave them their hard earned money.

I remember when they sent pictures of all of the parts being manufactured for your units. Ha! Lies. Bait.

Reprehensible company.

In the original BeSteady deal, it clearly stated that they would offer refunds - EVEN AFTER THE PRODUCT SHIPS. Never mind getting a refund before the product ships. That goes without even saying.

NOT GIVING REFUNDS AND NOT SHIPPING THE PRODUCT IS STEALING. It's a crime.

Changing your company's name doesn't change the fact that you are thieves.

ACR, you make me sick.

By the way, of the people who actually have your units, how many of them work properly? How good is your support when they break?

 

[Greg Garay]

I can feel the legs that support group buys here on RU trembling. Would hate to see them go away. Also want to see justice for all in this debacle of a "group buy" (AKA: failed kickstarter). Greg, maybe try hounding them on other forums where they are hoping to fish for new customers? They might be more responsive there. Best of luck…

Thanks for you comments Matt. I fully understand the situation here. I know that reduser is owned by Red and they do us all a favour by allowing posting of non-Red product threads. For that I am grateful. I have been a Red owner since 2007 and a forum member since 2007. It is a great resource and community. You will see that I have posted just 8 times in 9 years - preferring to read and learn from others.

This whole BeSteady/ACR issue has dragged on for so long if you weren't involved in it with your own cash, you would be laughing at the ridiculousness of it and the answers we get drip fed. I have had to read every post to keep up to date with where my money has gone - including the two other 100+ threads that were shut down and deleted.

My preferred way of doing business it via email or phone. Complaints are always best dealt with on a one to one basis. But when the company we are dealing with refuses to reply to private messages our only way forward is to bring it out in the open. And indeed, it seems they only reply on this forum, ignoring emails that were sent to them earlier.

I understand you are nervous that this thread will cause the owners of this forum to put a stop to all group buys or discussions non-Red related. I get that. I see their reasoning. In the past we have been cornered into conducting a 100% happy/positive/no-complaints thread that does nothing but hide the truth. It allows company like BeSteady/ACR to get away with dodgy deals knowing that if we put fire to their feet we will be shut down (and hence their dodgy deals will go un-reported).

I agree that we should stay respectful of each other. Keep it clean and keep it honest. That is what a good community does. Supports each other, learns from each other. What I am asking for is that the community supports us in our problems where we have been ripped off, just as you would like us to support you if you had problems. I also see this as an opportunity to inform our community what companies are good and honest and have great products that help us to earn a living and which companies are betraying that, and may cause us harm or take away from our livelihoods.

Reduser is a premium forum, and any company wishing to leverage their success via Reduser should be held to the highest standards. I see no evidence that BeSteady/ACR comes even close to aiming for those standards. And their continually dishonest tactics should be brought out for us all to see and learn from, so all Redusers can make informed decision on who they deal with and what products they buy.

Plenty of small (and large) companies struggle at times. But it is how they communicate with their customers during those times that sets them apart from the shady, fly-by-night operators. BeSteady/ACR have proven on almost every post over the last 3 years that they have no respect or integrity for us. They have also used the fact that they are in Poland, far from the reach of almost all of us, to keep going, safe in the knowledge that no-one will be knocking on their door demanding real answers or proof of any products or facilities.

Personally, all I want is a refund. Fair and square. They have not delivered the unit to me - so it should be a simple banking transaction. I paid in full (£3,000) in Dec 2013. In July 2016 I want my cash back. If BeSteady/ACR go on to be a success, well good for them for turning it all around. But day in, day out, month in month out, they show zero sign of that.

I would like to have kept my reduser posting count to zero, emailed a request for a refund, received it and moved on.

Does Reduser play any part in this? Yes and no. As I said, it is their forum, we are just fee-free paying guests. But web forums, free or paid, serve as a strong marketing tool for the company and potential ad revenue (if they choose that route). It is a win-win for both sides. This group buy - and I call it a group buy because in Oct 2013 BeSteady did have a product for sale that was a lite-weight version of what we were buying - so it was not a kick starter as such, and supposedly was a fully operation business. This group buy started here on Reduser. Respected member Carey Lee Coffey did all the hard work to get it going and then spent the rest of his life, it seems, trying to get
BeSteady/ACR to deliver its promise.

BeSteady/ACR took advantage of the power that Reduser has with the professional community and saw it as a way to bump their non-existant product into the A league. Once they were inside the A League (and taken our money) they have basically pissed on us and treated us with contempt.

So I hope we can keep this (and other) threads open without censorship for all the reasons I’ve expressed above, and I hope other Redusers support us while we endeavour to sort out the mess. But yes, in the end, we are but guests here.

 

[Greg Garay]

Ok Peter, Thanks for replying.

1. What is the actual wording of the 'deal' with the company (which you do not name) that agreed to send the units to redusers? Does it say they will not refund money, only send units?
Ad 1) It is made as part of payment for purchase of rights and technology. It's Polish taxes system and law that prohibits us from making refunds from ACR - from polish tax office point of view giving money in that way is breaking the law. Giving products as free samples on the other hand is not. Don't ask me why - Polish tax system isn't best in the world...

Best
Peter

It seems this 'Polish Tax law" is working very nicely in your favour (must be the only country in the world where tax laws do you a favour).

Last year you wrote:

Hi Paul,

yes, ACR is new company but BeSteady won't be closed down. ACR will be responsible for delivering all units to members of this group buy.

Best
Peter

1.So you are saying BeSteady is still a legal entity still in operation?

2.What is your connection here?

3.What is their connection to ACR?

4. If you are all still working together, still operating - how is it possible that you can switch from one to the other - speak on their behalf, tell us about the refund process, yet you have no legal requirement to pay refunds?

5. If you (ACR) can't pay refunds and it is 100% a BeSteady problem then why are you still telling us 'it will take some time and we hope the legal issues will be resolved some time in the future'.

If its not up to you, morally or legally, then why are you getting involved and making promises for a company that you are not part of and have no control of and no information of their inner workings. If it was all up front and honest, you would say 'its BeSteady who you should talk to - we as ACR cannot help in any way"

None of this adds up. You are two companies that have the same people - and you answer for both but won't refund a couple of people...

You have lied to us so often I don't know how you can even expect anyone to place any respect in your answers.

In October 2015 you emailed me and said "at this moment I can't give you exact date. Units will be delivered in this year - that is certain".


Well, it seems your ‘certain’ is not what the rest if us understands it to be.

In February 2016 on this forum you wrote:

We are doing all we can to finish deliveries in February.

Best
Peter

It is now July and you are still providing bullshit promises to people about when you will deliver something we paid for 3 years ago!

These are just a few the quotes from you in the last 9 months. I could go on quoting you for ever with all your promises and 'we're sorry but this time we have learnt our lessons' dating back to December 2013 when you took everyones money up front (£210,000) with a promise that everything was going to ship in January 2014.

For someone who is, I’m guessing, the spokesperson for the company, you certainly know how to sink a ship (although a ship that was sinking anyway).

It’s interesting that you are so sure about ‘Polish tax law’ absolutely forbidding you to refund a single penny, yet you have never thought about refunds for customers that returned their unit, unhappy with it. And odd that over 3 years of this absolute legal debacle, you and your lawyers have never once raised the issue or imagined the scenario.

So here is a scenario: I’m coming to Warsaw to take delivery of my unit, that afternoon I may be returning it back to you at your desk if I’m not 100% happy with it (I’ll be sure to show you my receipt) and then, by EU law you will have to refund my full purchase price within 21 days.

Whats that you say? “I didn’t buy it from you, you gave it to me as a promotional gift, you cant refund me”. Oh, that is where we go down the rabbit hole and it gets mean and dirty. That is where you spend more time in the Polish court system than you ever wanted to and where you spend way more than the £3,000 it would cost you to refund me.

How about this as a scenario: you have given away all these units as generous (but totally legal in Poland of course) promotional gifts. Then you decide it would be good to buy some of them for your own use, or to resell in your own shop. They are so hard to make and takes years (3 years actually) to produce each one - so having one already made, placed in front of you is a great opportunity. So you approach one of us (some of us) and say ‘Hey, would you be willing to sell me your unit. I’ll offer you £3,000 for it” . I say, “why yes, thats a great idea. Mine is actually still wrapped in its box, unopened” Deal done.

There are legal options there for you. I’d suggest you take one of them.

Normally I would have conducted all this business in private, via email. But Peter, you haven’t responded to any of my emails, you have not attempted to contact me privately in any way for over a month. I still have 4 emails left unanswered - but you choose to respond only in public forums. Your CEO (Justyna Wodzyńska) hasn’t bothered to way in on this - which, in a small business, is a worrying sign. Its just you randomly going on reduser once every couple of months.

So here it is, for all to see how you deal with it. (I think all of us are wincing in anticipation of how you will respond this time).

And trust me, you would rather deal with me in person than my contact in Poland.

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

By the way, of the people who actually have your units, how many of them work properly? How good is your support when they break?

Carey,


You asked very good question. Can any of you guys that are currently using The Beast answer to that?

Best
Peter

 

[Piotr Chmielewski]

Greg,

1.So you are saying BeSteady is still a legal entity still in operation?

Ad1) I'm saying that BeSteady assets are frozen as there is ongoing lawsuit that I know about. I can't give you all details as I don't know them and I'm sorry for that - I was only employee of BeSteady.

2.What is your connection here?

Ad2) I worked in BeSteady and when rights to products and technology was sold I was hired by ACR.

3.What is their connection to ACR?

Ad 3) BeSteady sold their technology and rights to product, and ACR bought those. As part of deal ACR agreed to deliver units to members of group buy.

4. If you are all still working together, still operating - how is it possible that you can switch from one to the other - speak on their behalf, tell us about the refund process, yet you have no legal requirement to pay refunds?

Ad 4) We are not working together. I'm not speaking on behalf of BeSteady for long time as I'm not working there any longer. I'm informing you about current situation and I'm trying to explain it to you best I can.

5. If you (ACR) can't pay refunds and it is 100% a BeSteady problem then why are you still telling us 'it will take some time and we hope the legal issues will be resolved some time in the future'.

Ad 5) Becouse as long as BeSteady assets are frozen they cant make any refunds and I don't know how long it will take as it is hard to predict.

So here is a scenario: I’m coming to Warsaw to take delivery of my unit, that afternoon I may be returning it back to you at your desk if I’m not 100% happy with it (I’ll be sure to show you my receipt) and then, by EU law you will have to refund my full purchase price within 21 days.

Greg - I will speak with our Lawyer about your idea. If that will be valid way to do so I will let you known. But there is main problem - you will have receipt from BeSteady and not from ACR.

Best
Peter

 

[Jordan Raabe]

Hey Carey,

First, I will disclose that I no longer own the Beast. I sold it because I no longer work in the same field. However, I was one of the people who DID receive a Beast, and I've been 100% satisfied with the product over the year and a half that I owned it, especially after the V2 upgrade. I sent my gimbal in back in November or December to get the V2 board upgrade, but to also ask them to address one issue on my unit: the safety lock on the connector between the top gimbal motor and the handlebars was no longer engaging,and made the connection less secure. ACR was totally happy to take care of that, at the same time as the upgrade, and I had my gimbal back within about 6 weeks. That is a bit of time, but about 20 of those days were days stuck in customs between the US and Poland, an unfortunate aspect of international shipping that is out of ACR's control.

My support at ACR has been quite good. With the exception of shipping times (due to items getting stuck in customs for 7-10 days, which, having shipped things to and from ACR 3-4 times now, is normal). I would say I get a response to first inquiries to Peter about 80% of the time. He's made suggestions on what sealants to use to provide some extra stick on the carbon fiber tubes. I know others might disagree, but as an owner, I found him reasonably reachable, and very user facing. He's busy, but he has a presence, and if you need to get in touch with him, one or two tries usually does the trick. Connecting yourself to ACR's social media feeds and establishing a dialogue/relationship definitely seems to help. There are also other employees at ACR who are available for support. When I first received the gimbal, I was able to schedule a setup Skype call at ACR's suggestion with their support tech, who walked me through setting up the unit, answered a long list of questions I had about settings and calibration, and best practices.

The caveat being if you can get your hands on one, I recommend the Beast over any other gimbal. I'm incredibly glad I went this route, for a price that doesn't seem to sacrifice performance. I know that the experiences of those of you who have not received a unit differ greatly, but this has been mine.

-Jordan Raabe