Best VND for the V-Raptor?

[Steven Belcher]

After a lot of research it seems to be RED's RF to PL ND adapter... but are the alternatives worth considering? Pros & cons?

KipperTie Strata PL-ND
Breakthrough DFM & X4 VND
Mofage Poco RF to PL

Or is just going with either a NiSi, SmallRig, or Tilta Mirage Matte Box with VND a better way to go?

I want to go with an option that will not only work best for my needs as a DP, but also for most others' needs while renting out my Raptor package. Would love to hear your thoughts.


Thanks!

 

[Vedran Strelar]

Hi Steve,

I own the RED's RF to PL E-ND adapter since they have released it, and I am really happy with the functionality of the E-ND and the overall build quality of the adapter.
One of the pros of this adapter is that you can really dial down your exposure with 1/4 increments, and you can control the ND value not only via the camera or + & - buttons on the actual E-ND cartrige but also remotely if camera is on the car rig or any other remote rig - via RED app or if focus puller is using C-Motion or Hi5 units.

Minor concern with this E-ND mount is that you have to keep in mind you have to switch the cartrige on the mount when you want to go CLEAR from 2-7 stops E-ND. You have to physically swap them, which is not a big deal and you can do it very fast, however things can get messy when you are in the rush and you or camera assistant touches the glass element on the cartrige filter. Also it gets bit harder to swap the filter cartriges when you have the camera on the Ronin2 where you would have to pull out the camera frontal from the ronin almost completely to swap the filters, and then push the camera back in and rebalance on the gimbal.

Mayor con would be the lens compatibility with this RED E-ND adapter. So far I had troubles mounting Arri Ultra Primes on this adapter, Angénieux zooms, some people said Cooke lenses might have an issues mounting as well because of the long protrusion rear elements. I still keep my Kippertie Adapta PL mount, just in case I get a project where lenses that I have to use, cannot be mounted on RED E-ND. You can find the info about the mount here: https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/ar...PL-Adapter-w-Electronic-ND-Lens-Compatibility

I did a quick test with the RED's E-ND some time again, wanted to check if there are any color shifts with it, you can find it here:

I know from a fellow DP that owns KipperTie Strata PL-ND mount on his Raptor, that he had the similar issue with mounting on Arri Ultra Primes, because of the long protrusion of rear elements.

For a long time I was using a Tilta Mirage and I was happy with it, but you are limited to a max front diameter of 95mm. Also I think you can only use the Tilta V-ND until 5 stops max in my opinion, after that you start to see a heavy cross vignette on the edges. I would counter this in sunny outside scenes by adding a NiSi solid ND on the Mirage matte box along with the VND cartridge. This was working great, and I did not get any weird color shifts.

I also extensively used NiSi's screw on 95mm VND filters from 1.5-5 and 5-9 stops, and they are great! Just takes time to remove them and screw them on when swapping lenses and again you are limited to lenses that have a filter thread up to 95mm.

Polarpro Basecamp matte box system might be a good alternative to something like Tilta Mirage, since you could mount it on pretty much any lens with a front diameter up to 114mm...

Hope that helps.

 

[Phil Holland]

More or less how I'm working currently and since last year.

RED eND PL Mount - Big bonus controlling ND via camera or RED Control, downside swapping cartridge to clear. Not an issue on Raptor XL.
Front 4x5.6" ND Filters - Still the "highest quality" ND solution if you know which to buy. Pretty much the way I go for anamorphic glass that doesn't fit a rear of lens solution.
Breakthrough VND - Impressive quality and still the best VND I have tested, which is largely due to where it exists in the optical path. Still need to swap to clear.
KipperTie Strata PL ND - Fixed strengths, not totally in love with the mechanism, but the big bonus is going to clear without swap.

Mofage Poco had tolerance issues I wasn't thrilled with and color related stuff. Kolari I've heard good things, but haven't tested it yet. Many front of lens VND solutions "won't spark joy" if you care about color or image quality that I've tested to date. There's a lot of balance these days between convenience and trade-offs however.

 

[Steven Belcher]

Hi Steve,

I own the RED's RF to PL E-ND adapter since they have released it, and I am really happy with the functionality of the E-ND and the overall build quality of the adapter.
One of the pros of this adapter is that you can really dial down your exposure with 1/4 increments, and you can control the ND value not only via the camera or + & - buttons on the actual E-ND cartrige but also remotely if camera is on the car rig or any other remote rig - via RED app or if focus puller is using C-Motion or Hi5 units.

Minor concern with this E-ND mount is that you have to keep in mind you have to switch the cartrige on the mount when you want to go CLEAR from 2-7 stops E-ND. You have to physically swap them, which is not a big deal and you can do it very fast, however things can get messy when you are in the rush and you or camera assistant touches the glass element on the cartrige filter. Also it gets bit harder to swap the filter cartriges when you have the camera on the Ronin2 where you would have to pull out the camera frontal from the ronin almost completely to swap the filters, and then push the camera back in and rebalance on the gimbal.

Mayor con would be the lens compatibility with this RED E-ND adapter. So far I had troubles mounting Arri Ultra Primes on this adapter, Angénieux zooms, some people said Cooke lenses might have an issues mounting as well because of the long protrusion rear elements. I still keep my Kippertie Adapta PL mount, just in case I get a project where lenses that I have to use, cannot be mounted on RED E-ND. You can find the info about the mount here: https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/ar...PL-Adapter-w-Electronic-ND-Lens-Compatibility

I did a quick test with the RED's E-ND some time again, wanted to check if there are any color shifts with it, you can find it here:

I know from a fellow DP that owns KipperTie Strata PL-ND mount on his Raptor, that he had the similar issue with mounting on Arri Ultra Primes, because of the long protrusion of rear elements.

For a long time I was using a Tilta Mirage and I was happy with it, but you are limited to a max front diameter of 95mm. Also I think you can only use the Tilta V-ND until 5 stops max in my opinion, after that you start to see a heavy cross vignette on the edges. I would counter this in sunny outside scenes by adding a NiSi solid ND on the Mirage matte box along with the VND cartridge. This was working great, and I did not get any weird color shifts.

I also extensively used NiSi's screw on 95mm VND filters from 1.5-5 and 5-9 stops, and they are great! Just takes time to remove them and screw them on when swapping lenses and again you are limited to lenses that have a filter thread up to 95mm.

Polarpro Basecamp matte box system might be a good alternative to something like Tilta Mirage, since you could mount it on pretty much any lens with a front diameter up to 114mm...

Hope that helps.

Very helpful, thanks. Pretty much exactly where my head is at.

For now, I went with the NiSi C5 Matte Box & VND system as a temporary solution. I plan on going with the RED RF to PL E-ND later down the road, whenever I can afford it.

 

[Steven Belcher]

More or less how I'm working currently and since last year.

RED eND PL Mount - Big bonus controlling ND via camera or RED Control, downside swapping cartridge to clear. Not an issue on Raptor XL.
Front 4x5.6" ND Filters - Still the "highest quality" ND solution if you know which to buy. Pretty much the way I go for anamorphic glass that doesn't fit a rear of lens solution.
Breakthrough VND - Impressive quality and still the best VND I have tested, which is largely due to where it exists in the optical path. Still need to swap to clear.
KipperTie Strata PL ND - Fixed strengths, not totally in love with the mechanism, but the big bonus is going to clear without swap.

Mofage Poco had tolerance issues I wasn't thrilled with and color related stuff. Kolari I've heard good things, but haven't tested it yet. Many front of lens VND solutions "won't spark joy" if you care about color or image quality that I've tested to date. There's a lot of balance these days between convenience and trade-offs however.

Great breakdown. The RED E-ND PL seems to be the way to go, eventually, while keeping an extra RF to PL mount for lenses the protrude past the limit.... that is, eventually when I can afford it.