Best professional computer for editing 6k and 8k

[Lee M]

I am looking to invest in a new computer that I can dedicate to editing 6k and 8k footage from the RED. I am looking for something in the 5-10k price range. Would a fully loaded Mac Pro be a good option or would I be better off putting that money into a PC?

I am not looking to build the PC so prefer something that's ready to go.

Also should I be looking at computers advertised as Gaming PC's?

 

[Hal Long]

I wouldn't buy a current Mac Pro at this point. They're 3 years old and due for an update. There are plenty of feature speculation threads on RU and elsewhere but your guess is as good as anybody's as to what the machine will look like.

I'm using a souped up older Mac Pro 12-core for 6K real-time work in Premiere and Resolve, but it's too dated to get into something like that. I have no problem outputting at high frame rates from resolve, so I'm thinking 8k will work but I'll know when I get some Helium footage next week.

 

[Marc Wielage]

6K and 8K? I think you'd be looking at a fairly massive system, particularly if you intend to monitor in real-time 4K.

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

If you have to buy a computer today with that much power, then it almost has to be a PC. I've got an 8 core trashcan mac and I absolutely love it, but I wouldn't tell anyone to buy it today because it's outdated. Even though it can push 6k Dragon files, I don't think it'll have the mojo to handle an 8k raw workflow.

A gaming PC is close to what you would need but not exactly. Just do a google search for "editing workstation PC" and see what comes up.

 

[M Most]

Define "editing 6K and 8K footage." Are you talking about playing and editing these formats at full resolution with a full debayer in real time? Or are you talking about simply being able to play and edit them? If it's the latter, just about any modern computer can do that if you use 1/4 or 1/8 debayer. If you're talking about the former..... why? (other than for my personal satisfaction....) Or are you talking about something else altogether, like finishing for final delivery?

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Define "editing 6K and 8K footage." Are you talking about playing and editing these formats at full resolution with a full debayer in real time? Or are you talking about simply being able to play and edit them? If it's the latter, just about any modern computer can do that if you use 1/4 or 1/8 debayer. If you're talking about the former..... why? (other than for my personal satisfaction....) Or are you talking about something else altogether, like finishing for final delivery?

Come on Mike, didn't you know that in order to edit these days you have to be at full res, all of the time? Proxies are not spoken around here. It's 8K or go home. Just pump it out to your shiny new 8K monitor using off the shelf components and you are good to go.

You and I are from the days of Avid AVR2 and the days of offline/online, a method I still prefer (I'm editing a video right now using Dragon 5K files, dumbed down to ProRes Proxy on a 2013 Macbook Pro 13" Retina). Working just fine for editing. When I need to see the shiny footage for questions of focus or resolution I switch over to the R3D.

No offense meant to anyone editing in hi res. If you have the horsepower to do it, more power to you. If you have to be viewing your footage in all its glory, all of the time, I get it. For others, proxies are good enough until the end. Then everything looks really great when you switch over to original files.

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

Come on Mike, didn't you know that in order to edit these days you have to be at full res, all of the time? Proxies are not spoken around here. It's 8K or go home. Just pump it out to your shiny new 8K monitor using off the shelf components and you are good to go.

You and I are from the days of Avid AVR2 and the days of offline/online, a method I still prefer (I'm editing a video right now using Dragon 5K files, dumbed down to ProRes Proxy on a 2013 Macbook Pro 13" Retina). Working just fine for editing. When I need to see the shiny footage for questions of focus or resolution I switch over to the R3D.

No offense meant to anyone editing in hi res. If you have the horsepower to do it, more power to you. If you have to be viewing your footage in all its glory, all of the time, I get it. For others, proxies are good enough until the end. Then everything looks really great when you switch over to original files.

Very much this. Offline/online used to be so much harder than it is today (used to work as an Assistant Editor on features). In-camera proxies and live proxy switching INSIDE your NLE (Premiere in this case) is out of control amazing. I'm working on my first real project this way and it's completely changing the game. I would highly suggest testing that workflow before dropping some serious coin into a huge system.

 

[M.Halsell]

Meeting the needs of the modern 6K/8K user

Meeting the needs of the modern 6K/8K user

More creative professionals are slipping over to the Windows side of the PC industry for reasons of flexibility, economy and productivity. HP, Dell and Boxx each sell solutions for the creative professional looking for a Mac workstation alternative. Off the beaten path one might consider vendors offering gaming systems that offer a higher level of customized components, such as ASUS. From the vendors listed above, an end user could easily cobble together a DIY or off the shelf solution, that falls in the proper price/performance category.

Apple is making a slow exodus from the hardcore workstation space as the mainstream income is from mobile devices. So probably in fairnes, the creative community shouldn't expect any upcoming desktop product(s) to jarringly better or different than the current offerings. The iMac is usable in a limited ProRes/DnX/short form workflow, narrow GPU-intensive senarios. The iMac gets superhot under extended render loads and in my opinion is not designed for the systemic abuse of working with a wavelet based compression codec.

The MacPro is useable, the dual GPU slightly compensates for the lack of CPU optiosn, particularly for GPU enabled applications. The MacPro components are tightly integrated, making it feel as though the nMP punches slightly above its CPU (core count) weight. A significant cost ownership consideration will be the limited functional upgradability, meaning that Thunderbolt will be the primary expansion port for key peripherals. Thunderbolt 2 or 3 are capable, but bear in mind that collectively TB data loads dip into the CPU clock cycle, again in a system with a relatively low core count for 2016.

OS X and MS Windows intrinsically are similar and different. Fanatical bullets points could be made for each. But Windows has suffered thru its dog years and has finally reached a good level of parity with OSX. But a more clearer distinction in favor of Windows is the hardware agnostic and independence. Windows allows hardware builds irrespective of mitigating OS factors allowing a user to pull more performance and feature from a PC with modest hardware resources.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Very much this. Offline/online used to be so much harder than it is today (used to work as an Assistant Editor on features). In-camera proxies and live proxy switching INSIDE your NLE (Premiere in this case) is out of control amazing. I'm working on my first real project this way and it's completely changing the game. I would highly suggest testing that workflow before dropping some serious coin into a huge system.

One thing I'm hoping to accomplish this year is less one-man-band postproduction and bringing more artists/collaborators into the mix to add more value to the projects. I used to mix sound but I was never great at it. I have some experience as a colorist but I'm not amazing at it. So, I'd rather invest in people these days than equipment. It's also one of the reasons why I didn't upgrade my Red One to Epic W, although it would have been awesome. But instead I want to invest in skilled DPs. It's phenomenal having all of these tools. Every NLE, Davinci Resolve, Scratch, Pro Tools, After Effects, etc. but I can't possible master all of these skill sets. I can get by, but I find it more fun working with others.

So, a long way of saying that sometimes (not always) cutting edge isn't necessary. If all you need to do is offline edit, there are a lot of systems available to you.

 

[M.Halsell]

Steve you bring very good 'aware' points to the discussion regarding workflow considerations and options. I will be the first to admit that since the introduction of REDCODE, the image leaves you mesmerized/transfixed. The voices in your head make you want to work in full image glory all day. That is, until you realize that the datasets create production and delivery challenges.

 

[M Most]

I never said anything about "making" proxies. I questioned why one would want to drag around 6K files while trying to edit, which is a time you usually want some fluidity. What I was implying was that you can simply play the R3D files at 1/4 or even 1/8 debayer during that process and get pretty good fluidity. I didn't mention anything about creating offline files. Steve did. I didn't.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'll stay out of the pick and pluck foam, but here's my extremely general advice in a nutshell.

CPU: You can go one of two good routes.
- Dual Proc Xeon
- Single Proc I7 seems to still be king on the single side of things, simply due to cores and how most packages utilize them.
* Getting top tier or in top 3 modern procs is a good idea

RAM:
- Absolute minimum in my book, 32GB.
* Get 64GB+ if you can. Makes life much easier

GPU:
- Nvidia without a question. Aim towards Pascal these days
- Good idea to get a minimum of 8GB of RAM
- Good idea to have two GPUs
* If you are looking for real speed, a RED Rocket-X is still a good choice. You can indeed have multiple Rocket-X cards as well.

STORAGE:
- RAID. You'll want to invest in a decent RAID setup to get the read/write performance
* You will need to decide how much storage space you want and what fits in your budget
- It's also a good idea to have a separate "write to" disk for exports
* Not a bad idea to have a scratch disk as well
* SSDs are very nice if they fit within your budget, at a minimum M.2 for boot/app data is time saver for sure.


If you are going hard, there's some interesting systems you can build in these price tiers:
- $1500
- $2500
- $5000
- $10,000
- $15,000
- $ To infinity and beyond

Many of the decisions on what you'll be getting will play out in what budget tier you exist in.

 

[Jerrin Uecker]

I had https://www.pugetsystems.com/ build my computers, Love them, and their support! They listened to all my annoying questions

 

[M.Halsell]

Archive Solutions

Archive Solutions

Post budget should include archival solutions as well.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Each editor/shop can choose how they prefer to handle source files; transcodes, fractional wavelet extractions, or even R3D full decode to 2160P monitoring if they have the budget and inclination. FWIW, if your gig happened to be cutting aerial scenics for a long form IMAX piece, you might have needs other than fluidity.

Where I am more interested in having smooth high resolution playback is in the field, checking takes for focus/flaws before wrapping talent/location/crew/gear/etc. We've gone from optical finders during capture for a low/medium res viewing target (SD video/high speed release prints/viewing distances) to EVFs that are typically 1080 or less with an industry starting to spec 2160 deliverables (which is actually 4x image elements from a spacial perspective).

Cheers - #19

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I never said anything about "making" proxies. I questioned why one would want to drag around 6K files while trying to edit, which is a time you usually want some fluidity. What I was implying was that you can simply play the R3D files at 1/4 or even 1/8 debayer during that process and get pretty good fluidity. I didn't mention anything about creating offline files. Steve did. I didn't.

Yes, I take full responsibility for those comments.

I use two methods these days. One is to edit with true proxies, either Avid DNxHD36 or ProRes Proxy or in the case of FCPX or Premiere I'll sometimes just drop the playback resolution. The ability to switch back to Hi Res instantly makes the latter a very attractive workflow.

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

Slightly hijacking this thread, as I am in a similar spot and I don't feel it is worth starting a new thread for similar advices.
My mac laptop just failed. I am reinstalling everything, but I am getting fed up with all the issues that are coming into owning an iPhone, a desktop mac and a laptop mac. It seems like apple is becoming what windows was in 1999....
Said so, I am considering alternatives.

1. Does it make sense to run Google OS instead of a windows machine? Of course the focus is video and photo editing. It looks like Premiere won't run on it. So I am excluding the option. But someone has a different take, please let me know.
2. Phil, can you give me a couple of options in the lower tier budgets, for laptop and/or desktop? Just upgraded to the Epic-W and money is what it is. PM if you prefer. Thanks!

I'll stay out of the pick and pluck foam, but here's my extremely general advice in a nutshell.

CPU: You can go one of two good routes.
- Dual Proc Xeon
- Single Proc I7 seems to still be king on the single side of things, simply due to cores and how most packages utilize them.
* Getting top tier or in top 3 modern procs is a good idea

RAM:
- Absolute minimum in my book, 32GB.
* Get 64GB+ if you can. Makes life much easier

GPU:
- Nvidia without a question. Aim towards Pascal these days
- Good idea to get a minimum of 8GB of RAM
- Good idea to have two GPUs
* If you are looking for real speed, a RED Rocket-X is still a good choice. You can indeed have multiple Rocket-X cards as well.

STORAGE:
- RAID. You'll want to invest in a decent RAID setup to get the read/write performance
* You will need to decide how much storage space you want and what fits in your budget
- It's also a good idea to have a separate "write to" disk for exports
* Not a bad idea to have a scratch disk as well
* SSDs are very nice if they fit within your budget, at a minimum M.2 for boot/app data is time saver for sure.


If you are going hard, there's some interesting systems you can build in these price tiers:
- $1500
- $2500
- $5000
- $10,000
- $15,000
- $ To infinity and beyond

Many of the decisions on what you'll be getting will play out in what budget tier you exist in.

 

[M.Halsell]

Slightly hijacking this thread, as I am in a similar spot and I don't feel it is worth starting a new thread for similar advices.
My mac laptop just failed. I am reinstalling everything, but I am getting fed up with all the issues that are coming into owning an iPhone, a desktop mac and a laptop mac. It seems like apple is becoming what windows was in 1999....
Said so, I am considering alternatives.

1. Does it make sense to run Google OS instead of a windows machine? Of course the focus is video and photo editing. It looks like Premiere won't run on it. So I am excluding the option. But someone has a different take, please let me know.
2. Phil, can you give me a couple of options in the lower tier budgets, for laptop and/or desktop? Just upgraded to the Epic-W and money is what it is. PM if you prefer. Thanks!

Google OS is a non starter. Not a supported OS for any of the important Post tools at this point. A reasonable shopping list would be:

- Windows 10
- Core i7-6700K
- Motherboard that supports Thunderbolt 3
- 2 x GeForce GTX 1080 (2nd GPU is optional)
- PCIe SSD or/in conjunction with a Thunderbolt Pegasus Raid (or simiiar). Read/Write speeds should be near or over 1000 MB/s
- 64 GB Ram
- Monitor out solution SDI or HDMI (optional)
- Keyboard/Mouse/CC Panel
- Computer Montior
- Reference monitor (optional)
- Archive Solution (LTO or HD)

The 2nd GPU is an option as it can be added later. The base workstation can be had for roughly $2K. The RAID will require at least 6 spinners to get an acceptable parity/speed level. The RAID will add at least $3K to the Post budget. Accessories (storage, input devices, displays) will add another $2K-3K. Do not recommend going below this basic spec as the performance will make your teeth grit.

From here, the next logical tier is dual socket XEON's, slightly more RAM, addtitional GPU. The Titan-X GPU is about 15-20% performance improvement of the 1080.

The OP ask comment for the best. Best falls into 2 categories 1) Best relative to affordability or 2) Best strictly computational.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Also, as we know Google is a very intrusive company looking to stick its nose anywhere it can within the laws(sort of). I'm sure the more tech savy on here can break down Google OS better than I can, but I would think it's just another step towards world domination. Control information at every level. Think about it. Google search, maps, glasses, home security, phones, computer OS, etc. That's a heck of a lot of information and data to entrust to a single company.

Okay, tinfoil hat off, back to the topic at hand.

 

[M.Halsell]

Also, as we know Google is a very intrusive company looking to stick its nose anywhere it can within the laws(sort of). I'm sure the more tech savy on here can break down Google OS better than I can, but I would think it's just another step towards world domination. Control information at every level. Think about it. Google search, maps, glasses, home security, phones, computer OS, etc. That's a heck of a lot of information and data to entrust to a single company.

Okay, tinfoil hat off, back to the topic at hand.

Steve, I agree that Google is angling to be first at Artificial Intelligence trough. Google is smartly creating extraneous information collection tools. And we are all feeding right into it.